By Martin Kelly

First Minister Alex Salmond has said that the date of Autumn 2014 for the independence referendum has been more or less accepted.

Mr Salmond was speaking after talks were held with Scottish Secretary Michael Moore as a prelude to an anticipated meeting with UK PM David Cameron.

The First Minister said modest progress had been made but insisted that any agreement on the areas being challenged by London would have to wait until the referendum consultation had concluded.

Speaking to the BBC, the First minister said: “Perhaps if the people speak strongly enough we’ll get a resolution to the disagreements on whether there should be one or two questions and whether sixteen year and seventeen year olds get to vote.”

The Scottish Government has insisted that they remain open to a third option being placed on the ballot alongside independence and the status-quo; ruling it out now, insists Mr Salmond, would be “undemocratic”.

The Scottish Government are also keen to extend the election franchise to allow sixteen and seventeen year olds to participate in the vote.

Whilst both sides appear to be close to agreement on the role of the Electoral Commission, Unionist parties are demanding that the third option of devo-max be disallowed from the ballot paper and that only those aged eighteen years old and over be allowed to take part.

Speaking after the meeting Mr Moore again repeated his view that a referendum would be better held “sooner rather than later” and said:

"There are some technical issues about laws and how you pass all that, that we need to sort out.  But we can do that, I think, much more quickly and get this referendum earlier, and that will be good for Scotland and good for business in Scotland."

The meeting with Mr Moore is being viewed by the Scottish Government as a procedural courtesy only and the real talks will be conducted between Alex Salmond and David Cameron when they meet in the next few days.

The Scottish Government has pointed out that Mr Moore is not part of the so called ‘Quad’ of UK Ministers put together to deal with the independence referendum and that the situation requires that 'decision makers' should meet.

David Cameron, Nick Clegg, Danny Alexander and George Osborne were assembled by the Tory / Lib Dem coalition in order to specifically deal with the issue of Scottish independence.

The meeting with Mr Cameron has been downplayed by the UK PM.  However despite trying to insist that he is not there to discuss the referendum, few believe that the Tory PM can avoid the subject when sat in a room opposite Alex Salmond.

Comments  

 
# RTP 2012-02-14 00:20
I saw a clip on this on the BBC did anyone else notice how tired and down Lamont without makeup looked is it possible to get a photo of her.
 
 
# clootie 2012-02-14 00:27
RTP

I'm worried about you!
This time of night and that's who's photo you want?
 
 
# RTP 2012-02-14 00:39
I don't really want it its a bit creepy
 
 
# call me dave 2012-02-14 01:01
Quoting RTP:
I don't really want it its a bit creepy




Put it on your mantlepiece!

It'll keep the bairns away frae the fire!
 
 
# bigbuachaille 2012-02-14 11:56
Quoting call me dave:
Quoting RTP:
I don't really want it its a bit creepy




Put it on your mantlepiece!

It'll keep the bairns away frae the fire!

Pin it up on the wa. Save ye buying a dartboard.
 
 
# Highland Tiger 2012-02-14 00:48
He might take it into this darkened room I have heard so much about.

That way he can't see what he is looking at :-)
 
 
# Old Smokey 2012-02-14 02:54
What was more creepy, was the the comment from BBC's Gary Robertson who interviewed Johann Lamont, who prefixed the interview with 'the Labour party were not invited to the meeting'. Robertson must be on another planet coming out with that. Why on earth would Labour be invited as they are not involved and have nothing to to do with either the UK government or the Scottish Government. Bit of a waste of an interview anyway as she had nothing constructive to say
 
 
# Old Smokey 2012-02-14 02:56
By the way noticable by absence was a question from Gary Robertson to Lamont regards the disgraceful treatment of Cllr Millar
 
 
# Jim1320 2012-02-14 00:20
By more or less accepted does Alex mean "I have told them when we are holding it and it is beginning to sink in"?
 
 
# hiorta 2012-02-14 10:47
Aye.
 
 
# nottooweeorstupid 2012-02-14 10:49
Hope so! They're a bit slow on the uptake though.
 
 
# SaltireAboveAll 2012-02-14 00:25
I think it would be useful if NNS were to run a series of articles on the individual questions within the SG's consultation document. This would provide an opportunity for all of us here to debate each of the questions thoroughly in turn.

This, I think would be agreat contribution from NNS to the consultation process.

Be good to have your thoughts on this.
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-02-14 00:44
Seconded.
 
 
# xyz 2012-02-14 00:45
Excellent idea ...
 
 
# Highland Tiger 2012-02-14 00:46
I have mentioned that before, basically a Q&A page which will act as a one stop shop for links to all the relevant information for each question that either comes up in the consultation document or that the voters may ask.

It would be very quick and easy to set up.
 
 
# jafurn 2012-02-14 00:55
A great idea 'saltireAboveAll '
 
 
# Highland Tiger 2012-02-14 00:42
I would love to be a fly on the wall at these discussions.

I wonder if Alex has told him we don't need their approval as UN Charters etc give us the right to hold the referendum anyway, so we aren't asking for their permission.

I can't wait to see how David Cameron gets on at Thursday's meeting.

And why the BBC had to mention that Labour weren't present at todays discussion is beyond be, it is nothing to do with them as they aren't in power. I think the BBC need to remember that.
 
 
# jafurn 2012-02-14 00:51
Symbolism can be a very powerful force.
Have a look at the juxtaposition of the two protagonists in this piece from the BBC

bbc.co.uk/.../...

There is Mr.Salmond inside the building with the backdrop of ‘your Scotland your referendum’

Contrast with

Mr. Moore standing outside the building which is clearly marked ‘The Scottish Government’

I don’t know if that was engineered or was just a lucky accident but either way it gives, for me anyway. a very strong message of where Mr. Moore stands in relation to Mr. Salmond on this issue.
 
 
# Barontorc 2012-02-14 01:07
Jafurn - put it down to serendipity, because there's no way the EBC would rig that backdrop up willingly!

If they had taken control, there would be Union Jacks fluttering all over the place and morris dancers doing missionary work, whilst the Women's Institute was giving out tea and scones.
 
 
# call me dave 2012-02-14 01:18
Quoting Barontorc:
Jafurn - put it down to serendipity, because there's no way the EBC would rig that backdrop up willingly!

If they had taken control, there would be Union Jacks fluttering all over the place and morris dancers doing missionary work, whilst the Women's Institute was giving out tea and scones.



Whot no jam?

Dont tell me 'The First Eck' didn't buy any.
 
 
# Mei 2012-02-14 10:14
I think that I converted two Jehovahs Witnesses to Independence last week when they came to our door.
 
 
# Exile 2012-02-14 12:00
LOL. Brilliant.
 
 
# call me dave 2012-02-14 16:41
Quoting Exile:
LOL. Brilliant.




What's the difference between a Jehovahs witness and a lada ?




Answer:
It's easier to close the door on a Jehovahs witness!


I admit to owning two ladas when I was younger. They never let me down unlike the Labour party!
 
 
# Auld Bob 2012-02-14 14:21
WOW! Now that is the ultimate conversion. "Road to Damascus", Eat your heart out.
 
 
# mato21 2012-02-14 01:13
you can be sure they'll be more carefull in future now you have drawn their attention to it

Wheesht
 
 
# jafurn 2012-02-14 01:14
ooops sorry but it was just so compelling.
 
 
# Mark 2012-02-14 01:03
I love the sybernats humour.
Thanks for making me laugh so much, well done and good luck to all.
 
 
# doonhamer 2012-02-14 01:56
Quoting Mark:
I love the sybernats humour.
Thanks for making me laugh so much, well done and good luck to all.


CYBERNATS, surely you onionists can get that right.
 
 
# Exile 2012-02-14 12:01
How do you know he's an onionist? Could be a secret cabbagist. But seriously....?
 
 
# nottooweeorstupid 2012-02-14 12:06
I actually think he meant it, don't be gratuitously accusing him of being an onionist!
 
 
# J Wil 2012-02-14 01:04
It was interesting to hear Salmond mention the consultations. Moore's has had 200 responses whilst the Scottish Government's has had thousands. Of course there is no indication of whether they are mainly for or against.
 
 
# Keef 2012-02-14 01:04
A typical ploy by the Tories. send in the monkey to get as much information as possible, before the organ grinder then makes an appearance, hoping, of course to come pre-warned as to what the questions might relate to.
Knowing how AS works, he'll have told him nothing and taken him nowhere. Cameron thinks he's clever by attempting to demean the office of our First minister. All he has done is shown how disrespectful he truly is.
I'm sure Alex will play the statesman with Cameron. Make no doubt about it though, by the time Cameron leaves for London he'll be well aware that SCOTLAND will no longer be dictated to by Downing street.
After a morning with Alex, even Cameron will be thinking of voting YES (If he had the chance).This point should be remembered too. It's Scotland's decision to make. All this interference from London is just downright arogant. Yes it will effect the UK but it has nothing to do with London as to when and how the people of Scotland choose to run their country. When will that sink in?
 
 
# Auld Bob 2012-02-14 14:32
Eck is not daft. Every time the Wastemonster sticks its oar in, they are breaching the International rules that prevent a larger government, that contains a smaller country, from self determination. Canon Kenyon Wright was on radio this morning saying much the same thing.
 
 
# Dowanhill 2012-02-14 01:05
Quoting RTP:
I saw a clip on this on the BBC did anyone else notice how tired and down Lamont without makeup looked is it possible to get a photo of her.
.
Yes, I saw that and was horrified. The phrase ' can you imagine her as First Minister ' doesn't bear thinking about. She looked absolutely dreadful. Great propaganda stuff against Labour though if that image was to be used.
 
 
# ituna semea 2012-02-14 01:37
Ms Lamont and Mr Salmond really justify the phrase that politics is showbusiness for ugly people.
 
 
# oldnat 2012-02-14 01:53
The odd thing is that all the psychological research suggests that people vote for physically attractive candidates.

Scots don't seem to fit that research.

An overweight, balding wee guy (sorry Alex!) is the only politician who has a positive approval rating.
 
 
# Auld Bob 2012-02-14 14:33
Remember Churchill?
 
 
# doonhamer 2012-02-14 01:57
Quoting ituna semea:
Ms Lamont and Mr Salmond really justify the phrase that politics is showbusiness for ugly people.


and you confirm that unionism is for stupid people... being ugly is just a side benefit.
 
 
# Dowanhill 2012-02-14 01:15
I am also begining to think the BBC now think Lamont is un-electable as First Minister and have ( the bbc ) now adopted the position as the un-elected opposition to the Scottish Government due to an embarrasing, incoherent Scottish Labour Leader and her inept party of Labour MSP's.
 
 
# call me dave 2012-02-14 01:57
"Well Michael what news from Salmond"?
"Did things go well"?
"Has he given way to any of our demands"?


""I'm not too sure Prime Minister". "He said" "You'll have had your tea Michael"
"So I couldn't sell him any of that jam you gave me"

"Perhaps you'll have better luck on Thursday Prime Minister"


For goodness sake Michael did you not insist on an earlier referendum date or say how silly it is to let 16/17 year olds to vote" ? "How was he on Trident and did you mention we'll keep the oil"



"Of course Prime minister I made out a really strong case but . . . but .."


"Well what did he say man, out with it"



"Rockall . .Prime minister"
 
 
# call me dave 2012-02-14 02:25
O/T

Moody's rating agency places UK on negative outlook.


bbc.co.uk/.../...


And another (comments good too!
'The First Eck' speaks down South.

scotsman.com/.../...
 
 
# admiral 2012-02-14 10:25
This is terrible news!!!!

Obviously, Scotland can no longer be a member of the UK state if it has a less than AAA rating!!!!
 
 
# pictic-1 2012-02-14 02:49
Slightly O/T
As a relative newcomer to the site there are lots of things which I find very refreshing and a source of information. A nice touch of humour as well ...!

However, sometimes I'm just plain knackered when I get home / back from appointments etc. and don't have much time or energy to write a reply or comment on some post.
I'd still like to quickly say that sounds OK to me, well done or maybe even no to something.

Could the holy saint admin. add bottom left to posts a "like" button which in accordance with the referendum question could also be "I agree".

Maybe this has been brought up before, well anyway it's just a thought.

Night night
 
 
# Angus 2012-02-14 06:52
Quoting doonhamer:
Quoting ituna semea:
Ms Lamont and Mr Salmond really justify the phrase that politics is showbusiness for ugly people.


and you confirm that unionism is for stupid people... being ugly is just a side benefit.

Haha.. brilliant!
 
 
# patrickotic 2012-02-14 08:52
Meanwhile, over on 'toryhoose' an exiting vote is being held asking the 'loyal' members what they think of their new leader.
The voting gives 'THREE OPTIONS' but unlike the rest of us dafties, they clever tory voters are able to understand it !!!

The options with current voting is as follows.

1. Irn Lady %21
2. Vanilla %21
3. WOODEN SPOON %58 !!!!!!!

Even her own supporters reject her !
 
 
# rhymer 2012-02-15 18:10
Quoting patrickotic:
Meanwhile, over on 'toryhoose' an exiting vote is being held asking the 'loyal' members what they think of their new leader.
The voting gives 'THREE OPTIONS' but unlike the rest of us dafties, they clever tory voters are able to understand it !!!

The options with current voting is as follows.

1. Irn Lady %21 (A Lada)
2. Vanilla %21. (Godzilla)
3. WOODEN SPOON %58 !!!!!!! (Goodbye soon)

Even her own supporters reject her !


Translation
 
 
# bigbuachaille 2012-02-14 12:02
Compare the Scot Gov online consultation and the whole site devoted to the Referendum with the Moore/Mundell effort which looks like it was cobbled together in a couple of hours. Scot Gov response is all user-friendly and can be completed in minutes online. There are even files in German, Arabic, French, Mandarin etc. Westminster response has to be on paper or involves a load of cutting and pasting from the pdf file. Easy to see who has done all the homework and preparation here. No wonder there are so few responses to Moore.
 
 
# nottooweeorstupid 2012-02-14 12:09
I thought that too BB. Surely not a deliberate ploy to make it too footery to respond?
 
 
# Blanco 2012-02-14 12:33
I really hope all this talk of a third option is a red herring. Devo Max - once Westminster has agreed on what it actually is, which will be something that cannot happen until the conservatives are no longer in power - will do us no good.
 
 
# bigbuachaille 2012-02-14 12:49
Ian Hamilton has written another piece. Moderators, please arrange to post it www.scottishreview.net/.../
 
 
# X_Sticks 2012-02-14 13:10
Brilliant as always! Oh, for a few more like Ian Hamilton.
 
 
# KillieBoab 2012-02-14 13:24
A superb article. I very much like his line 'It is a much loved foreign country but it is recognised as foreign'.
My view entirely.
 
 
# Bambi 2012-02-14 14:22
A beautiful piece.
 
 
# bigbuachaille 2012-02-14 13:00
The FM continues his foreign policy:
liverpoolecho.co.uk/.../...
 
 
# oldnat 2012-02-14 14:32
Fascinating. A newspaper report on Salmond, that is actually straight reporting! No spin, no twisting, no bitter comments from opposition leaders - just straight reporting!
 
 
# Fungus 2012-02-14 13:04
I have commented on the Scottish Government's consultation but there is no chance of me even hinting at the legitimacy of Westminster to interfere by completing theirs.
The fewer people who bother with it, the bigger the message Westminster will receive.
 
 
# X_Sticks 2012-02-14 13:14
I am still thinking about that Fungus. I was considering responding with a big "FRO westminster", it's Scotland's referendum. That might also send a message. What do you think?
 
 
# nottooweeorstupid 2012-02-14 15:22
I responded - I just answered 'when the Scottish Government sees fit', or 'in the way the Scottish Government sees fit' to every question. :)
...oh no, have just spotted amfraembro's suggestion - forgot to add GIRUY!
 
 
# amfraeembro 2012-02-14 13:22
I responded so:

"Sovereignty resides with the Scottish people.
Therefore all questions related to the independence referendum must be decided by the peoples’ elected representatives , the Scottish Government.
Only this would be consistent with UN declarations regarding self determination of peoples."

Should have added GIRUY!
 
 
# X_Sticks 2012-02-14 13:47
I like that amfrae. I may use it or something very similar if that is ok. I will still include the FRO however. Some of them "down there" might actually enjoy GIRUY!
 
 
# amfraeembro 2012-02-14 13:55
Feel free X_Sticks, the sooner they realise it's none o their business the better.
 
 
# Ard Righ 2012-02-19 22:47
Shame the insurrection of 1820 was unsuccessful and ruthlessly suppressed.
 

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