Wednesday, 15 February 2012 07:47
263 Comments
By G.A.Ponsonby 
A report published today by a Westminster Committee and which looks at the independence referendum, has been described as “an embarrassment” and “shoddy” by the SNP’s Westminster Chief Whip Stewart Hosie.
The SNP MP was responding to a report by the House of Commons Scottish Affairs Committee, chaired by controversial Labour MP Ian Davidson, in which it claims serious questions remain unanswered regarding an independent Scotland.
The report, entitled ‘Referendum on Separation for Scotland’ claims that an independent Scotland’s credit rating would suffer and insists that answers are needed on what currency would be used should Scotland opt for independence.
The report also said there remained questions on what proportion of the UK's debt an independent Scotland would take and whether Scots would need passports to travel.
However the report has been rubbished by SNP MP Stewart Hosie who blasted its use of pejorative language and insisted that many of the questions it posed have already been answered.
Mr Hosie claimed that the committee had already been overtaken by events which included a public consultation launched by the Scottish government.
“This report is an embarrassment to its authors." said Mr Hosie who added: "Firstly, it talks about ‘separation for Scotland’, when Scottish Government policy is for independence, not separation. But apart from its predictably pejorative approach to the issue of Scotland’s constitutional future, this shoddy report from the anti-independence parties has been totally overtaken by events.
Mr Hosie went on:
“It raises questions which have been dealt with in detail by the Scottish Government’s white paper published way back in 2009. The issues it raises include the currency of an independent Scotland, which is now widely accepted will be Sterling, with even Scottish Secretary Michael Moore accepting that Scotland will keep the pound after independence.”
Questioned on the Politics Scotland programme on 15 January on the possibility of an independent Scotland staying with Sterling, Michael Moore said: “I don’t think there would be a legal problem with that”.
Mr Hosie also highlighted yesterday’s lowering of the UK’s credit outlook to negative by a major ratings agency and said:
“Even more embarrassingly for the Unionist parties, this report raises the issue of credit ratings just as the prospect of a downgrade of the UK’s triple-A status has been raised by a major ratings agency.
“Since Labour MP Ian Davidson announced his inquiry last October the Scottish Government has published its detailed proposals for the referendum and is consulting with communities across Scotland. Indeed, the Scottish Government’s referendum consultation has already sparked
a huge response since it was launched late last month, in contrast to the few dozen responses to this inquiry.”
Mr Hosie insisted that Scotland was already moving forward and that any independence referendum was a matter for the Scottish Parliament, adding:
“ … the referendum that is happening is the one the SNP pledged in the election campaign, which we said will be held in the second half of this parliament. That is the platform the SNP stood on last May, and which the people of Scotland gave us a resounding mandate to deliver.
"The days of Westminster Committees or Tory and Labour Governments telling the people of Scotland what to do are over.”
The Committee, which was originally set up to scrutinise the workings of the Scotland Office, had its remit altered after the SNP’s historic election win and turned its attention to the referendum.
However it was embroiled in controversy soon after when its outspoken Chairman, Labour MP Ian Davidson, was accused of threatening female member Dr Eilidh Whiteford with a “doing” if she spoke to the media.
The threats led to Dr Whiteford, an SNP MP, refusing to attend any further meetings whilst Mr Davidson remained its Chair. Despite criticism by Women’s groups and a letter by female academics, the Labour MP refused to resign his position.
Given the very public attacks on the referendum and independence by the party leaders of the all Unionist committee members, the ‘conclusions’ reached will come as no surprise.
Committee chairman, Mr Davidson, said: "The big question about such an unknown quantity as separation is the terms of the 'divorce settlement' - how resources, rights and responsibilities will be broken up.
"The responses we've had clearly show that there is confusion and concern about this, but also that you only need to scratch the surface to reveal how many complex questions there are across banking, pensions, currency, national defences - but also many more personal things."
He added: "The purpose of this inquiry is to set out from the start some of those questions and begin to explore their answers, with the aim of helping to make this process as clear and fair as possible.
"You cannot ask a big question about separation - however you construct it - without first asking and answering all these questions about how it will affect every aspect of every life, in Scotland and the UK as a whole."
The report comes one day before a planned meeting between Scotland’s First Minister Alex Salmond and UK PM David Cameron in which the issue of the independence referendum is expected to feature prominently.
Comments
#
2012-02-15 08:36
Surely the answer is
"That is for an independant Scotland to decide, not for Westminster. "
Ian Davidson and his fellows are missing the point, they cannot imagine a world without Westminster control and, when an Independant Scotland comes it seems that they may end up in a home for the bewildered, holding committee meetings for ever more
"That is for an independant Scotland to decide, not for Westminster. "
Ian Davidson and his fellows are missing the point, they cannot imagine a world without Westminster control and, when an Independant Scotland comes it seems that they may end up in a home for the bewildered, holding committee meetings for ever more
#
2012-02-15 08:38
"The report, entitled ‘Referendum on Separation for Scotland’"
Snore, boring blah blah.
"with even Scottish Secretary Michael Moore accepting that Scotland will keep the pound after independence.”
Hope he realises this is an olive branch to help ensure that England doesn't get stuffed too badly by the ratings agencies when there's no Scottish oil underwriting their economy.
"and whether Scots would need passports to travel."
Guess that depends whether Tory England "tear themselves out of the union" with Europe ;-)
Snore, boring blah blah.
"with even Scottish Secretary Michael Moore accepting that Scotland will keep the pound after independence.”
Hope he realises this is an olive branch to help ensure that England doesn't get stuffed too badly by the ratings agencies when there's no Scottish oil underwriting their economy.
"and whether Scots would need passports to travel."
Guess that depends whether Tory England "tear themselves out of the union" with Europe ;-)
#
2012-02-15 08:42
‘Referendum on Separation for Scotland’
AKA: Unionists guide to fear, uncertainty and doubt.
Target audience: Those with no positive vision for Scotland.
"The responses we've had clearly show that there is confusion and concern about this".
The whole report shows it is they who are confused.
Talking amongst themselves again = confusion.
Worried about their personal future careers = concern.
AKA: Unionists guide to fear, uncertainty and doubt.
Target audience: Those with no positive vision for Scotland.
"The responses we've had clearly show that there is confusion and concern about this".
The whole report shows it is they who are confused.
Talking amongst themselves again = confusion.
Worried about their personal future careers = concern.
#
2012-02-15 15:07
As I went to check my emails today I saw this guff on the front page:
uk.news.yahoo.com/.../
Back to calling us "Separatists" again. Tut tut!
uk.news.yahoo.com/.../
Back to calling us "Separatists" again. Tut tut!
#
2012-02-15 08:45
"You cannot ask a big question about separation - however you construct it - without first asking and answering all these questions about how it will affect every aspect of every life, in Scotland and the UK as a whole."
It's not until 2014, so we'll have time to consider all these things. It's a good job we didn't listen to all those Unionist politicians here and in Westminster who told us we should have the referendum as soon as possible.
It's not until 2014, so we'll have time to consider all these things. It's a good job we didn't listen to all those Unionist politicians here and in Westminster who told us we should have the referendum as soon as possible.
#
2012-02-15 08:48
We'll do just fine without you and your ilk Mr Davidson, just fine.
What I'd like to know the answer to is the actual cost of running this committee in the first place to see what this bufoon has wasted to achieve precisely nothing.
Dinosaur !
What I'd like to know the answer to is the actual cost of running this committee in the first place to see what this bufoon has wasted to achieve precisely nothing.
Dinosaur !
#
2012-02-15 08:53
Got a wee bit of bad news for Davidson, he may not have a political party for very much longer, given the economic state of its account books and it's DEPENDENCY on the unions:
independent.co.uk/.../...
“ Delegates to the annual conference of Britain's third biggest union, the GMB general union, will hold a vote on whether to put an end to the formal link with the Labour Party – a move that would deal a body blow to the party's already flimsy financial base.
While Mr Miliband may not be too unhappy at being attacked by union activists as he tries to win back middle-class voters who deserted Labour in 2010, losing the financial backing of the GMB would be a serious blow. The 600,000-strong union gives the Labour Party more than £2m a year. “
independent.co.uk/.../...
“ Delegates to the annual conference of Britain's third biggest union, the GMB general union, will hold a vote on whether to put an end to the formal link with the Labour Party – a move that would deal a body blow to the party's already flimsy financial base.
While Mr Miliband may not be too unhappy at being attacked by union activists as he tries to win back middle-class voters who deserted Labour in 2010, losing the financial backing of the GMB would be a serious blow. The 600,000-strong union gives the Labour Party more than £2m a year. “
#
2012-02-15 08:59
The anti independence parties, are really clutching at straws here. No matter what viewpoint you have, this report is really rather silly. It is akin to a nasty letter sent by a jilted lover, full of vitriol and bitterness. Even Westminster needs to be ashamed on this occasion.
The people who wrote this could have produced a very detailed thorough analysis of options, and possibilities for outcomes if the vote is YES, but instead have produced a very silly, rather childish document.
It is so poor, we can safely conclude that it is the kind of report only the propagandist state run BBC would ever take seriously.
As for Ian Davidson, and his coterie of unionist MP's who co- authored this piece of trash, they are merely a self preservation society.
Consider, without Westminster, where would the likes of Davidson or Curran find another job, which gives them a second tax payer funded home in London W1, a salary of 65,000 pounds, the best pension scheme in the UK, free weekly flights via BA to London and all expenses paid? These Scottish anti-independence MP's from Labour are not worried about the UK or Scotland, they are merely worried about their own cushy careers at the Westminster feeding trough.
The sooner we are all (Scotland AND England) rid of them, the better.
The people who wrote this could have produced a very detailed thorough analysis of options, and possibilities for outcomes if the vote is YES, but instead have produced a very silly, rather childish document.
It is so poor, we can safely conclude that it is the kind of report only the propagandist state run BBC would ever take seriously.
As for Ian Davidson, and his coterie of unionist MP's who co- authored this piece of trash, they are merely a self preservation society.
Consider, without Westminster, where would the likes of Davidson or Curran find another job, which gives them a second tax payer funded home in London W1, a salary of 65,000 pounds, the best pension scheme in the UK, free weekly flights via BA to London and all expenses paid? These Scottish anti-independence MP's from Labour are not worried about the UK or Scotland, they are merely worried about their own cushy careers at the Westminster feeding trough.
The sooner we are all (Scotland AND England) rid of them, the better.
#
2012-02-15 09:02
Westminster are determined to either undermine the SNPs position on Independence, as they continue to do so, or they will try and force some conditions through, which i doubt AS will allow.
for more stories please visit:-
www.ramblingally.blogspot.com
for more stories please visit:-
www.ramblingally.blogspot.com
#
2012-02-15 09:04
Westminster might have many questions regarding the effects on them should Scotland go its own way. That's for them to consider and nothing whatsoever to do with the Scots.
All Scotland wishes to do is to make its own way in the world, the absolute right for any identifiable nation and underscored by the United Nations Article 1 on self determination. This is a Charter igned up to by the UK government but to which it pays lip service.
Constant interference in Scotland's legitimate aspiration is contrary to international law and Westminster have already fallen foul of that convention many times over.
A confident First Minister would already be banging his chest and alerting the international community to this flagrant abuse of international convention.
Why is he silent and why does he not send the likes of Moore, packing. He does not negotiate with Cameron, he tells him like it is.
Off with the gloves Salmond, your continuing dithering is becoming an embarrassment.
All Scotland wishes to do is to make its own way in the world, the absolute right for any identifiable nation and underscored by the United Nations Article 1 on self determination. This is a Charter igned up to by the UK government but to which it pays lip service.
Constant interference in Scotland's legitimate aspiration is contrary to international law and Westminster have already fallen foul of that convention many times over.
A confident First Minister would already be banging his chest and alerting the international community to this flagrant abuse of international convention.
Why is he silent and why does he not send the likes of Moore, packing. He does not negotiate with Cameron, he tells him like it is.
Off with the gloves Salmond, your continuing dithering is becoming an embarrassment.
#
2012-02-15 09:15
No. I think you the embarrassing thing is the rump rebrand of a failed party sending missives out that get ignored by their recipients while the sender contacts blogs shouting "look at me I'm important! Listen, I demand you listen"
Look at who else is doing the shoutie ranting thing, the Unionists, and in doing so it looks like they are shouting because they are unsure of their ground, they look desperate.
The quiet confidence of the SNP team speaks volumes on its own."we don't need to bluster and rant,we have our legal opinion, it seems good to us"
You disagree with that approach, stand for an election, get voted in
Look at who else is doing the shoutie ranting thing, the Unionists, and in doing so it looks like they are shouting because they are unsure of their ground, they look desperate.
The quiet confidence of the SNP team speaks volumes on its own."we don't need to bluster and rant,we have our legal opinion, it seems good to us"
You disagree with that approach, stand for an election, get voted in
#
2012-02-15 15:16
I agree RS. It was the dignity and quiet confidence of the SNP as they grew in stature that made me sure I was doing the right thing in supporting them. I've always liked the way they refuse to lower themselves to the standards of others, long may it last.
#
2012-02-15 09:35
Upspake - I think I'll go with experience and support the SNP leadership team at present. They may have slightly more expertise and information than you!
#
2012-02-15 09:48
Well said. At least they have stood for elections and been elected, unlike the faceless, unelected, carping SDA.
#
2012-02-15 10:24
Be fair, as the SEP they stood is 2007, got humped Aberdeenshire 21 votes, and obviously decided in 2011 that this getting elected business was not for them
#
2012-02-15 09:46
Ahh, there you go again upspake, second guessing Alex Salmond in the tail end of your post. You of all people should be aware, that many people much better than you have also second guessed Salmond to their cost.
How do you know he is dithering?? Are you in his meetings with Cameron? No, you base your assertions on what you don't know, rather than what you do.
Giving the unionists enough rope to hang themselves is hardly dithering. The SDA continually interfering because they think they know better, despite never having been elected anywhere, doesn't help.
Your comments, which are unfunded, do make me wonder about the true motivations behind the SDA. 'Damming with faint praise', as the old saying goes.
I think I've seen enough to doubt where the SDA's true motives lie.
How do you know he is dithering?? Are you in his meetings with Cameron? No, you base your assertions on what you don't know, rather than what you do.
Giving the unionists enough rope to hang themselves is hardly dithering. The SDA continually interfering because they think they know better, despite never having been elected anywhere, doesn't help.
Your comments, which are unfunded, do make me wonder about the true motivations behind the SDA. 'Damming with faint praise', as the old saying goes.
I think I've seen enough to doubt where the SDA's true motives lie.
#
2012-02-15 10:51
Robert, I imagine UpSpake's merely champing at the bit, desperate for Independence to come. I think, for example, the SDA's approach to the CoE was to be welcomed. I do, however, agree it seems a bit over the top to start attacking Alex Salmond after all he's achieved so far. Patience, UpSpake, hasten slowly.
#
2012-02-15 15:12
This isn't the first time.
As regards Council of Europe, the problem I have with the SDA, is by their mutterings, they almost imply that the SNP know nothing about the council of Europe.
I mean, seriously.
The Scottish Government are following due process, which will then help to legitimise complaints taken to a higher level.
I just get tired of the way the SDA imply only they and they alone have considered such things, with not a shred of evidence to substantiate such assertions.
As regards Council of Europe, the problem I have with the SDA, is by their mutterings, they almost imply that the SNP know nothing about the council of Europe.
I mean, seriously.
The Scottish Government are following due process, which will then help to legitimise complaints taken to a higher level.
I just get tired of the way the SDA imply only they and they alone have considered such things, with not a shred of evidence to substantiate such assertions.
#
2012-02-15 16:25
There have been enough of us on NNS who have said the council of Europe will have a role to play, never mind anywhere else.
#
2012-02-15 09:47
UpSpake, Alex Salmonds "continuing dithering" has got us further than I ever thought possible in my lifetime. I understand that from the outside it must seem slow and frustrating but that's the name of the game.
It is easy for us to become armchair commentators on this, but we aren't armed with all the facts.
I hope he takes his time, plays with all the players involved and ends up winning the game.
It is easy for us to become armchair commentators on this, but we aren't armed with all the facts.
I hope he takes his time, plays with all the players involved and ends up winning the game.
#
2012-02-15 10:31
What are you on about? .. I'm wondering about your motives. In any case you're damaging your own cause .. whatever that is. .. Anti-Independence-for-Scotland is the disease the SNP is the cure. .. If you want to play for power after independence .. go for it, but please do not damage the cause of independence.
#
2012-02-15 10:39
Hey Upsake. Hawd yer weesht son!
To date the First Minister has played a blinder.
They have tried, my God have they tried to get him on the backfoot. The media the EBC and all three anti-independence parties. Yet who is visiting who tomorrow? Which First Minister is traveling to which country for a meeting tomorrow? Who is playing "at home" tomorrow?
"Continued dithering"? Aye right.
To date the First Minister has played a blinder.
They have tried, my God have they tried to get him on the backfoot. The media the EBC and all three anti-independence parties. Yet who is visiting who tomorrow? Which First Minister is traveling to which country for a meeting tomorrow? Who is playing "at home" tomorrow?
"Continued dithering"? Aye right.
#
2012-02-15 11:42
Quoting UpSpake:
I would have taken the claymore from the thatch by now , that's why we need AS with a cool head to win the day.
Westminster might have many questions regarding the effects on them should Scotland go its own way. That's for them to consider and nothing whatsoever to do with the Scots.
All Scotland wishes to do is to make its own way in the world, the absolute right for any identifiable nation and underscored by the United Nations Article 1 on self determination. This is a Charter igned up to by the UK government but to which it pays lip service.
Constant interference in Scotland's legitimate aspiration is contrary to international law and Westminster have already fallen foul of that convention many times over.
A confident First Minister would already be banging his chest and alerting the international community to this flagrant abuse of international convention.
Why is he silent and why does he not send the likes of Moore, packing. He does not negotiate with Cameron, he tells him like it is.
Off with the gloves Salmond, your continuing dithering is becoming an embarrassment.
I would have taken the claymore from the thatch by now , that's why we need AS with a cool head to win the day.
#
2012-02-15 09:06
One of the many reasons for this report is for Ian Davidson to show his loyalty to the Westminster Establishment. He will also be hoping for a gong in the next Honours list.
The only unanswered question is what Ian Davidson will be doing post Independence? This question will be uppermost in all the Unionist MPs minds. The gravy train will be dead on it's tracks.
The only unanswered question is what Ian Davidson will be doing post Independence? This question will be uppermost in all the Unionist MPs minds. The gravy train will be dead on it's tracks.
#
2012-02-15 11:49
Quoting Wave Machine:
I hear Rangers are looking for a groundsman the Cove ones.
One of the many reasons for this report is for Ian Davidson to show his loyalty to the Westminster Establishment. He will also be hoping for a gong in the next Honours list.
The only unanswered question is what Ian Davidson will be doing post Independence? This question will be uppermost in all the Unionist MPs minds. The gravy train will be dead on it's tracks.
I hear Rangers are looking for a groundsman the Cove ones.
#
2012-02-15 13:40
Quoting Wave Machine:
This is what a lot of Labourites are thinking, what happens post Independence, and we hear nothing from the Big guns, Skeletor Murphy and Smarty pants Alexander! Sitting on the sidelines?
One of the many reasons for this report is for Ian Davidson to show his loyalty to the Westminster Establishment. He will also be hoping for a gong in the next Honours list.
The only unanswered question is what Ian Davidson will be doing post Independence? This question will be uppermost in all the Unionist MPs minds. The gravy train will be dead on it's tracks.
This is what a lot of Labourites are thinking, what happens post Independence, and we hear nothing from the Big guns, Skeletor Murphy and Smarty pants Alexander! Sitting on the sidelines?
#
2012-02-15 09:10
Ian Davidson is a small man of no vision and limited talent. The perfect bully boy to run this wee committee of no importance. But just as Mr Hosie has pointed out, events have well and truly overtaken the committee and the report. They have obviously also overtaken yesterday's man Ian Davidson.
Good Riddance
Good Riddance
#
2012-02-15 16:29
Quoting Macart:
Isn't that Pooh Bear you just described?
Henceforth known as Pooh Bear Davidson.
Ian Davidson is a small man of no vision and limited talent.
Isn't that Pooh Bear you just described?
Henceforth known as Pooh Bear Davidson.
#
2012-02-15 22:55
Heh, good one Bob. He certainly likes to get his nose in the honey. Sorry I didn't get back earlier, I've been off doing missionary work today. :)
#
2012-02-15 09:23
WESTMINSTER THEATRE:
Now Showing:
Scary Report CCLVIII (and counting)
Pardon me asking, but why is this considered news worth NNS front page?
Now Showing:
Scary Report CCLVIII (and counting)
Pardon me asking, but why is this considered news worth NNS front page?
#
2012-02-15 09:34
I wonder how much coverage the EBC will give this on today/tonight's news? I haven't looked at their website yet, but I'll bet there is coverage...
#
2012-02-15 10:05
Of course their is. Only the state run propagandist BBC could ever take such a report seriously.
#
2012-02-15 10:07
The only unanswered questions these MPs are bothered about is what happens to them and their Lordships on Independence.
Anyone up for devising a predictive game?
Mr Davidson bears a passing resemblance to Super Mario
Anyone up for devising a predictive game?
Mr Davidson bears a passing resemblance to Super Mario
#
2012-02-15 10:08
I have scoured the internet for this report. The only sites I can find it on are:
1. The originators site:
publications.parliament.uk/.../...
2. The BBC:
bbc.co.uk/.../...
Appears that the BEEB have the inside running on this… I wonder why?
1. The originators site:
publications.parliament.uk/.../...
2. The BBC:
bbc.co.uk/.../...
Appears that the BEEB have the inside running on this… I wonder why?
#
2012-02-15 10:28
There are some really daft questions and the odd sensible ones in "Written questions submitted by anonymous contributors" in Scottish Affairs Committee written evidence section: -
publications.parliament.uk/.../...
Would not surprise me if these so called "anonymous contributors" are put forward by some unionists MP's.
publications.parliament.uk/.../...
Would not surprise me if these so called "anonymous contributors" are put forward by some unionists MP's.
#
2012-02-15 15:23
There are some beauties in there right enough - here's my favourite, wait for it:
"Will I still be able to buy wine from the Sunday Times Wine Club?"
In the name of the wee man, would you not just bury a question like that and try to retain some dignity?
"Will I still be able to buy wine from the Sunday Times Wine Club?"
In the name of the wee man, would you not just bury a question like that and try to retain some dignity?
#
2012-02-15 16:54
really did not suspect there were that many numpties in Scotland. Jusy who did they think was payting the subsidies to ALL electricity generators at the moment?
My old Mum & Dad left for Australia in 1962 and Dad died just a few years ago. He had the UK State Retirement Pension, an UK army pension, a British Rail pension and a Gas Board persion. The UK government managed to pay them all to him in Australia - I think they just might manage to pay what they owe to Scots in Scotland.
My old Mum & Dad left for Australia in 1962 and Dad died just a few years ago. He had the UK State Retirement Pension, an UK army pension, a British Rail pension and a Gas Board persion. The UK government managed to pay them all to him in Australia - I think they just might manage to pay what they owe to Scots in Scotland.
#
2012-02-15 17:54
Mei is absolutely correct, they are readers of the Daily Record. Remember a couple of months back the Daily Retard asked the readership to put forward questions which were to be passed on to Davidson and his cronies
#
2012-02-15 17:59
The Record is boasting that "QUESTIONS posed by Daily Record readers have been placed at the heart of a major Westminster inquiry into Scottish independence.
The Commons Scottish affairs committee are today outlining the issues they plan to investigate over the coming months.
And they are based on scores of questions submitted by Record readers last year."
dailyrecord.co.uk/.../...
The Commons Scottish affairs committee are today outlining the issues they plan to investigate over the coming months.
And they are based on scores of questions submitted by Record readers last year."
dailyrecord.co.uk/.../...
#
2012-02-15 11:13
I heard it on Real Radio this morning. I was shouting at the radio when the presenter said "separation", but I didn't realise at the time that she was quoting the title!
I don't know who does Real Radio's news. Sky maybe? That seems to happen a lot these days.
Even Lanarkshire TV had Sky News!
I don't know who does Real Radio's news. Sky maybe? That seems to happen a lot these days.
Even Lanarkshire TV had Sky News!
#
2012-02-15 10:08
Quote from Curran.
Shadow Scottish Secretary Margaret Curran said the committee was asking questions "the people of Scotland need answers to".
Aye Curran the people of Glasgow need to know what the H**L is happening there speak up woman.
Shadow Scottish Secretary Margaret Curran said the committee was asking questions "the people of Scotland need answers to".
Aye Curran the people of Glasgow need to know what the H**L is happening there speak up woman.
#
2012-02-15 10:09
Good Moaning Scotland reported this and said Eilidh Whiteford had not attended the committee since she had had a "spat" with the chairman.
So if you want to threaten anyone at the BBC with violence just call it a spat and it will be all right !
So if you want to threaten anyone at the BBC with violence just call it a spat and it will be all right !
#
2012-02-15 10:13
OT - young son was at a concert in glasgow the other night. Apparently one band from Daan Saarf commented to the audience that they knew there were 'heightened tensions between Scotland and England' - now where have I heard that before?? It struck me as an odd thing for a band to come out with since there is no evidence that I have seen or heard for this particular bbc myth. I cant help wondering where this myth comes from, who stands to benefit from spreading it?? Surely there wouldnt be a campaign to stir up 'tensions'? Who could benefit from that?
#
2012-02-15 10:14
"which was originally set up to scrutinise the workings of the Scotland Office, had its remit altered". Don't think it did. It doesn't have the competence to do this (in any sense).
#
2012-02-15 10:23
Marga B
“ "which was originally set up to scrutinise the workings of the Scotland Office, had its remit altered". Don't think it did. It doesn't have the competence to do this (in any sense). “
I like that one MB – the unionist are a competence free zone. It has a nice ring to it as well.
“ "which was originally set up to scrutinise the workings of the Scotland Office, had its remit altered". Don't think it did. It doesn't have the competence to do this (in any sense). “
I like that one MB – the unionist are a competence free zone. It has a nice ring to it as well.
#
2012-02-15 10:41
Good doing Davidson is a shoddy little man just like his colleague and possible relative Bully Gilbert Davidson.
#
2012-02-15 11:06
Davidson demands answers does he?
I'll give him the definitive answer that will clear it ALL up for him and his shoddy, bullying little committee.
The Treaty of Union Formed a Parliament.
The Parliament it formed was Called the "Parliament of the United Kingdom Of Great Britain". Only two countries signed that treaty so Wales and Ireland were part of England.
When the Treaty Ends the Wastemonster Parliament Ends and there is NO Rump United Kingdom because the Monarchy's position remains the same.
So here is the answer Ian Davidson and his laughable committee require.
Scotland's properly elected parliament will be ready to negotiate with whatever arrangements England, (with her two satellites), make to have someone negotiate on England's behalf.
Wastemonster is NOT a properly elected Parliament of England and has no authority to negotiate on England's behalf – remember it actually represents BOTH countries so cannot speak for just one in disputes between both.
So the definitive answer is – Holyrood will look after Scottish interests and will negotiate with England's properly elected parliament WHEN ENGLAND ELECTS ONE.
I'll give him the definitive answer that will clear it ALL up for him and his shoddy, bullying little committee.
The Treaty of Union Formed a Parliament.
The Parliament it formed was Called the "Parliament of the United Kingdom Of Great Britain". Only two countries signed that treaty so Wales and Ireland were part of England.
When the Treaty Ends the Wastemonster Parliament Ends and there is NO Rump United Kingdom because the Monarchy's position remains the same.
So here is the answer Ian Davidson and his laughable committee require.
Scotland's properly elected parliament will be ready to negotiate with whatever arrangements England, (with her two satellites), make to have someone negotiate on England's behalf.
Wastemonster is NOT a properly elected Parliament of England and has no authority to negotiate on England's behalf – remember it actually represents BOTH countries so cannot speak for just one in disputes between both.
So the definitive answer is – Holyrood will look after Scottish interests and will negotiate with England's properly elected parliament WHEN ENGLAND ELECTS ONE.
#
2012-02-15 11:14
It seems to be a one-sided assessment of the situation, so how can the report support any reasoned debate. It will only give more ammunition to the vested interests and the doomsayers? Things have moved on apace and the committee is a toothless tiger.
It has been said before that this committee is extending its own remit into areas that are none of its business.
[Offensive comment removed - NNS Mod Team]
It has been said before that this committee is extending its own remit into areas that are none of its business.
[Offensive comment removed - NNS Mod Team]
#
2012-02-15 11:22
The conclusion of this Committee is laughable to us, but unfortunately there are a lot of people out there who don't see it the way we do, and believe all that rubbish. I have read about one concern where somebody was against Independence because they wouldn't get Eastenders anymore.
That is the sort of thing we are up against and the Unionists are continuing to play the scaremongering card with these people, to work against us. As daft as it may be to us, we have to cater for the lowest common denominator and answer these questions to allay the fears of people who basically don't care about politics. If we don’t, we may not win.
Once we have closed off all possible means of attack by the Unionists, then we have won.
We also have to paint the picture of what will happen to Scotland if we don’t win, like having potentially having powers removed from the Scottish Government and ending up more like England with tolls on the roads/bridges and having to pay for prescriptions etc.
That is the sort of thing we are up against and the Unionists are continuing to play the scaremongering card with these people, to work against us. As daft as it may be to us, we have to cater for the lowest common denominator and answer these questions to allay the fears of people who basically don't care about politics. If we don’t, we may not win.
Once we have closed off all possible means of attack by the Unionists, then we have won.
We also have to paint the picture of what will happen to Scotland if we don’t win, like having potentially having powers removed from the Scottish Government and ending up more like England with tolls on the roads/bridges and having to pay for prescriptions etc.
#
2012-02-15 14:45
Highland Tiger: "I have read about one concern where somebody was against Independence because they wouldn't get Eastenders anymore."
Aye, it was Coronation Street in 1979. How times have changed!
Aye, it was Coronation Street in 1979. How times have changed!
#
2012-02-15 11:27
I see Davidson has finally got round to spelling 'separation' correctly. Until a few days ago this was 'seperation' on this document. More puerile, cobbled together junk from Davidson and his mates hell-bent on being prepared to wreck Independence, prolong the undemocratic nightmare of Westminster rule, ignore Devo-Max and the will of the Scottish people in order to ensure they personally as MPs will not lose out.
#
2012-02-15 11:31
The report, entitled ‘Referendum on Separation for Scotland’
hmmm, a tad pejorative right enough but surely a huge improvement on the more conservative first working title,
" Gie'n the b*start nats a doing, come ahead pal, I'm ready for you."
Allegedly.
hmmm, a tad pejorative right enough but surely a huge improvement on the more conservative first working title,
" Gie'n the b*start nats a doing, come ahead pal, I'm ready for you."
Allegedly.
#
2012-02-15 11:34
HT, I think you are right. They are fairly flagrantly and without oppositon co-opting all kinds of supposedly neutral official entities to do their work for them, and this is nothing new.
The official role description on their web sites etc. does not change but no longer correctly labels the product - Scotland Office, Davidson's lot, Scottish question time in Westminster, Calman, the Scotland Act, you could even include the UK Supreme Court in some respects. All hammers of the Scots. Paid for wholly or in part with Scottish money.
The official role description on their web sites etc. does not change but no longer correctly labels the product - Scotland Office, Davidson's lot, Scottish question time in Westminster, Calman, the Scotland Act, you could even include the UK Supreme Court in some respects. All hammers of the Scots. Paid for wholly or in part with Scottish money.
#
2012-02-15 11:35
Will the BBC report each fox as it is shot?
I imagine they will report it .. but on that very day there will be some other 'big news' to divert the attention of BBC license payers.
I imagine they will report it .. but on that very day there will be some other 'big news' to divert the attention of BBC license payers.
#
2012-02-15 11:36
Meanwhile, from planet Aberdeen:
"Pro-union parties taking ‘big gamble’"
The UK Government has been warned that its demand for a quick, single- question referendum on Scotland’s future could backfire and lead to independence .
Aberdeen University’s head of politics, Paul Cairney, said the pro-union parties were taking a “major gamble” by demanding an early vote on a straightforward Yes or No question"
pressandjournal.co.uk/.../...
"Pro-union parties taking ‘big gamble’"
The UK Government has been warned that its demand for a quick, single- question referendum on Scotland’s future could backfire and lead to independence .
Aberdeen University’s head of politics, Paul Cairney, said the pro-union parties were taking a “major gamble” by demanding an early vote on a straightforward Yes or No question"
pressandjournal.co.uk/.../...
#
2012-02-15 11:40
I can't see what they can do if Salmond just says 'NO' to their requirements. He is being too kind by giving them a hearing at all.
Except that by prolonging the discussion time is moving on and soon there will be no time left to set up an earlier referendum.
While Moore has hope for his ideas and he is still in discussion, it keeps hime out of mischief. In the meantime Salmond's plans move ahead quite nicely.
Except that by prolonging the discussion time is moving on and soon there will be no time left to set up an earlier referendum.
While Moore has hope for his ideas and he is still in discussion, it keeps hime out of mischief. In the meantime Salmond's plans move ahead quite nicely.
#
2012-02-15 11:36
Quote, "serious questions remain unanswered regarding an independent Scotland."
So this committee which is empowered and has the resources to get answers to questions failed to do so.
What sheer incompetence!
Perhaps the members on this committee don't know how to use Google?
So this committee which is empowered and has the resources to get answers to questions failed to do so.
What sheer incompetence!
Perhaps the members on this committee don't know how to use Google?
#
2012-02-15 11:39
There is a ridiculous piece about the report of Davidson and his committee on the Reuters web pages which is so crudely slanted against the SNP and independence it's astonishing.
#
2012-02-15 15:09
Yeah - i had the misfortune of reading it on the Yahoo news site. the comments tho are a real eye opener....
#
2012-02-15 22:54
Quoting nachtmusak:
Reuters had a "Factbox" last month about Scotland that was riddled with inaccuracies, they did correct it but even then it still left something to be desired.
Just sent in a correction request for the current article, so we'll see what they do this time.
There is a ridiculous piece about the report of Davidson and his committee on the Reuters web pages which is so crudely slanted against the SNP and independence it's astonishing.
Reuters had a "Factbox" last month about Scotland that was riddled with inaccuracies, they did correct it but even then it still left something to be desired.
Just sent in a correction request for the current article, so we'll see what they do this time.
#
2012-02-15 11:43
Here is the list of memebers on the committee
Mr Ian Davidson MP (Labour/Co-op, Glasgow South West) (Chair)
Fiona Bruce MP (Conservative, Congleton)
Mike Freer MP (Conservative, Finchley and Golders Green)
Jim McGovern MP (Labour, Dundee West)
Iain McKenzie MP (Labour, Inverclyde)
David Mowat MP (Conservative, Warrington South)
Pamela Nash MP (Labour, Airdrie and Shotts)
Simon Reevell MP (Conservative, Dewsbury)
Mr Alan Reid MP (Liberal Democrat, Argyll and Bute)
Lindsay Roy MP (Labour, Glenrothes)
Dr Eilidh Whiteford MP (Scottish National Party, Banff and Buchan)
So, 4 English Tories, 1 SNP who left before she got a doing,and apart from the LD, all Labour MP's from Scotland. They are all represented at Holyrood by SNP MSP's except the guy from Inverclyde. The question they din't publish was - do you want to lose your job? Even so, the odds are against them at the next GE.
Parcel of rogues.
Freedom
Mr Ian Davidson MP (Labour/Co-op, Glasgow South West) (Chair)
Fiona Bruce MP (Conservative, Congleton)
Mike Freer MP (Conservative, Finchley and Golders Green)
Jim McGovern MP (Labour, Dundee West)
Iain McKenzie MP (Labour, Inverclyde)
David Mowat MP (Conservative, Warrington South)
Pamela Nash MP (Labour, Airdrie and Shotts)
Simon Reevell MP (Conservative, Dewsbury)
Mr Alan Reid MP (Liberal Democrat, Argyll and Bute)
Lindsay Roy MP (Labour, Glenrothes)
Dr Eilidh Whiteford MP (Scottish National Party, Banff and Buchan)
So, 4 English Tories, 1 SNP who left before she got a doing,and apart from the LD, all Labour MP's from Scotland. They are all represented at Holyrood by SNP MSP's except the guy from Inverclyde. The question they din't publish was - do you want to lose your job? Even so, the odds are against them at the next GE.
Parcel of rogues.
Freedom
#
2012-02-15 11:44
I see the BBc are reporting this as a Unionist report.
Wee Patten must have been throwing pies about at Pacific Quay after Alex Salmond marked his card last week.
Wee Patten must have been throwing pies about at Pacific Quay after Alex Salmond marked his card last week.
#
2012-02-15 11:52
I think the picture of Davidson above says everything that we need to know about this guy.
One doesn't need a long memory to make some relevant associations.
Make mine fury.
One doesn't need a long memory to make some relevant associations.
Make mine fury.
#
2012-02-15 12:05
Under the heading of 'Finance', Davidson has posed the following: (MY answers in italics)
1) What is Scotland's share of the national debt?
A direct proportion on a per capita basis
2) How would North Sea oil revenues be defined and distributed?
According to the convention of internationally agreed boundaries
Essential reading .../scotlands-national-borders
craigmurray.org.uk/.../...
www.ejil.org/pdfs/12/1/505.pdf
3) Would Scotland retain the use of Sterling? If so, would it be fiscally independent?
Scotland already uses Sterling. Would Ruk retain the use of Sterling? If so, would it be fiscally independent?
4) Would there be a Scottish Central Bank?
Scotland, like England, already uses the UK Central bank. Would there be an Ruk Central Bank?
5) Can the population of Scotland produce sufficient tax revenue to sustain a separate Scottish economy?
Essential Reading :
McCrone Report www.oilofscotland.org/.../
State Papers on Scotland: Devolution: Economic Advantages to Scotland of the Union tomgriffin.org/.../...
State papers on Scotland: Implications for External Financing tomgriffin.org/.../...
6) What would be Scotland's credit rating?
What would be Ruk’s credit rating?
7) What is the income derived from Scottish exports, and how much does Scotland pay for imports?
Essential Reading
www.siol-nan-gaidheal.org/.../
8) What is the potential impact, in both the immediate and longer term, of constitutional uncertainty on inward investment into the UK as a whole, and Scotland specifically, in the period before a referendum?
Refer to the FM’s numerous announcements of confidence of investors
1) What is Scotland's share of the national debt?
A direct proportion on a per capita basis
2) How would North Sea oil revenues be defined and distributed?
According to the convention of internationally agreed boundaries
Essential reading .../scotlands-national-borders
craigmurray.org.uk/.../...
www.ejil.org/pdfs/12/1/505.pdf
3) Would Scotland retain the use of Sterling? If so, would it be fiscally independent?
Scotland already uses Sterling. Would Ruk retain the use of Sterling? If so, would it be fiscally independent?
4) Would there be a Scottish Central Bank?
Scotland, like England, already uses the UK Central bank. Would there be an Ruk Central Bank?
5) Can the population of Scotland produce sufficient tax revenue to sustain a separate Scottish economy?
Essential Reading :
McCrone Report www.oilofscotland.org/.../
State Papers on Scotland: Devolution: Economic Advantages to Scotland of the Union tomgriffin.org/.../...
State papers on Scotland: Implications for External Financing tomgriffin.org/.../...
6) What would be Scotland's credit rating?
What would be Ruk’s credit rating?
7) What is the income derived from Scottish exports, and how much does Scotland pay for imports?
Essential Reading
www.siol-nan-gaidheal.org/.../
8) What is the potential impact, in both the immediate and longer term, of constitutional uncertainty on inward investment into the UK as a whole, and Scotland specifically, in the period before a referendum?
Refer to the FM’s numerous announcements of confidence of investors
#
2012-02-15 12:28
This is a Westminster committee that is empowered to call expert witnesses, study all relevant evidence at hand, come to a view and produce a report that answers the questions posed by the committee members. It simply failed to do this.
This was a committee that was either unwilling or unable to find answers to its own questions. That is simply incompetence.
We should submit a FOI request to find out how much this report cost the taxpayer.
This was a committee that was either unwilling or unable to find answers to its own questions. That is simply incompetence.
We should submit a FOI request to find out how much this report cost the taxpayer.
#
2012-02-15 13:01
Bigbuachaille
“ Under the heading of 'Finance', Davidson has posed the following: (MY answers in italics)
1) What is Scotland's share of the national debt?
A direct proportion on a per capita basis “
There is also a complimentary question to the one above.
X) What is Scotland's share of the national asset?
A direct proportion on a per capita basis
I reckon they will get that answer from the 5 main, and Treasury, committees they are planning to set up.
In fact I think the SG should set up a complimentary committee to ask the RUK those self same questions.
“ Under the heading of 'Finance', Davidson has posed the following: (MY answers in italics)
1) What is Scotland's share of the national debt?
A direct proportion on a per capita basis “
There is also a complimentary question to the one above.
X) What is Scotland's share of the national asset?
A direct proportion on a per capita basis
I reckon they will get that answer from the 5 main, and Treasury, committees they are planning to set up.
In fact I think the SG should set up a complimentary committee to ask the RUK those self same questions.
#
2012-02-15 13:21
I hope you have sent this to Davidson. Might be a good idea to send it to the whole comittee.
#
2012-02-15 12:11
Who really cares and gives a s**t what this nonentity states, the real progress forward is with the people of Scotland, who will, come that day, vote for a free , independent and democratic Scotland and will be an beacon of progress to the rest of the world. It will happen "nae limits"
#
2012-02-15 13:50
Quoting balgayboy:
The answer is - DAVIDSON CARES. He is arrogant, with a questionable attitude to women. He hates to be told anything he doesn't want to hear, especially when it comes from Independence supporters. He is typical of all that is wrong with Labour, prey to his own all-consumiong hatred of the SNP. For this reason, and to get it right up him, I have sent a copy of my above post to him. I'll keep you posted if there is a rational reply.
Who really cares and gives a s**t what this nonentity states, the real progress forward is with the people of Scotland, who will, come that day, vote for a free , independent and democratic Scotland and will be an beacon of progress to the rest of the world. It will happen "nae limits"
The answer is - DAVIDSON CARES. He is arrogant, with a questionable attitude to women. He hates to be told anything he doesn't want to hear, especially when it comes from Independence supporters. He is typical of all that is wrong with Labour, prey to his own all-consumiong hatred of the SNP. For this reason, and to get it right up him, I have sent a copy of my above post to him. I'll keep you posted if there is a rational reply.
#
2012-02-15 12:13
I would value some words of wisdom on whether I should offer a consultation response on Mickey Moores referendum piece as well as the Scottish Governement's. I can see a situation where we might have completely different responses for the two consultations where the Unionists respond to Westminster and the Nationalists respond to SG. If Stewart Hosie is right and there is a huge difference in numbers between the two that will be an embarassment in itself for Westminster. On the other hand it is risky since both consultations are open to the world and his wife. I am inclined to respond to both.
#
2012-02-15 12:28
Quoting Edulis:
The lack of responses to Moore/Mundell can be ascribed to the fact that it is just so poorly presented. You have to answer on paper or do a lot of copy and paste. Looks like they spent only a couple of hours drawing it up. On the other hand the online consultation by the Scot Gov is so easy to use. I am inclined to respond to both, referring to the irrelevance of Westminster in the Moore consultation.
I would value some words of wisdom on whether I should offer a consultation response on Mickey Moores referendum piece as well as the Scottish Governement's. I can see a situation where we might have completely different responses for the two consultations where the Unionists respond to Westminster and the Nationalists respond to SG. If Stewart Hosie is right and there is a huge difference in numbers between the two that will be an embarassment in itself for Westminster. On the other hand it is risky since both consultations are open to the world and his wife. I am inclined to respond to both.
The lack of responses to Moore/Mundell can be ascribed to the fact that it is just so poorly presented. You have to answer on paper or do a lot of copy and paste. Looks like they spent only a couple of hours drawing it up. On the other hand the online consultation by the Scot Gov is so easy to use. I am inclined to respond to both, referring to the irrelevance of Westminster in the Moore consultation.
#
2012-02-15 12:21
O/T
"Scots"man report on Super Sulk Sillars Shenanigans, Same old Same old Jim.
Who needs enemies ?
"Scots"man report on Super Sulk Sillars Shenanigans, Same old Same old Jim.
Who needs enemies ?
#
2012-02-15 13:08
It's incredible .. the favoured 'weapon' of the anti-independent people is to attack the SNP. .. and here we have someone who was once SNP deputy Leader doing the same thing.. Who's side is he on? Does he realise he has just been ~used~ by the anti-independent, anti-Scottish press? Shameful.
#
2012-02-15 12:25
I see that the SR has given space to George Robertson to complain that he is being bad-mouthed by a considerable number of his fellow Scots. No great surprise, methinks.
And The Scotsman has a piece of bile from the man who "could have been somebody, before he became a nobody".
Does Jim Sillars now feature in Wavey's White Feather Club? If not, I think it is about time.
History will treat them just the same.
And The Scotsman has a piece of bile from the man who "could have been somebody, before he became a nobody".
Does Jim Sillars now feature in Wavey's White Feather Club? If not, I think it is about time.
History will treat them just the same.
#
2012-02-15 12:33
This is embarrassing for unionists, it is not a document but an out of date scare monger draft, that cannot ask an intelligent question.
Are we really ruled by such retards?
Are we really ruled by such retards?
#
2012-02-15 12:43
This scare tactic of saying we will need a passport really annoys me as the last time I flew from Prestwick to London and back I had to have a passport!! That was in 2004 and don't know if that rule still applies.
#
2012-02-15 12:49
Well, with Scotland in the Schengen Accord and England NOT signing it the English will have no other option than have pasports at THEIR borders. Might find themselves little isolated, though.
#
2012-02-15 14:34
You can travel anywhere form the UK to Ireland even fly without a passport. Ireland is an independent sovereign country in the EU with the Euro.
#
2012-02-15 14:50
You must however have 'approved' photographic ID.
You must present one of the following forms of identification to board an aircraft. (Carriers may have varying approved lists)
International travel
All passengers on international flights must be in possession of a valid passport and, where required, a valid visa. Citizens of the European Union, European Economic Area and Switzerland may travel within Europe on presentation of their valid National Identity Card.
Children who are not included on their parent's UK passport will require their own valid passport for travel abroad.
Domestic/Republic of Ireland travel
All passengers, adults, children and infants, travelling to the Republic of Ireland must have a form of ID which proves their nationality/citizenship for immigration purposes.
A valid passport
An expired passport (domestic flights only up to two years after expiry)
Valid photographic EU or Swiss national identity card
Valid photographic driving licence
Valid armed forces identity card
Valid police warrant card/badge
Valid airport employees security identity pass
A child on parent’ s passport is an acceptable form of ID
CitizenCard
Valid photographic firearm certificate
Valid Government-issued identity card
SMART card
Electoral identity card
Photographic disabled badge
NUS card photographic (National Union of Students)
Photographic university/college ID card
Company ID card of nationally recognised company (photographic)
Council issued bus pass (senior citizens only)
Pension book (the only acceptable form of non-photographic identification)
Young Scot card
You must present one of the following forms of identification to board an aircraft. (Carriers may have varying approved lists)
International travel
All passengers on international flights must be in possession of a valid passport and, where required, a valid visa. Citizens of the European Union, European Economic Area and Switzerland may travel within Europe on presentation of their valid National Identity Card.
Children who are not included on their parent's UK passport will require their own valid passport for travel abroad.
Domestic/Republic of Ireland travel
All passengers, adults, children and infants, travelling to the Republic of Ireland must have a form of ID which proves their nationality/citizenship for immigration purposes.
A valid passport
An expired passport (domestic flights only up to two years after expiry)
Valid photographic EU or Swiss national identity card
Valid photographic driving licence
Valid armed forces identity card
Valid police warrant card/badge
Valid airport employees security identity pass
A child on parent’ s passport is an acceptable form of ID
CitizenCard
Valid photographic firearm certificate
Valid Government-issued identity card
SMART card
Electoral identity card
Photographic disabled badge
NUS card photographic (National Union of Students)
Photographic university/college ID card
Company ID card of nationally recognised company (photographic)
Council issued bus pass (senior citizens only)
Pension book (the only acceptable form of non-photographic identification)
Young Scot card
#
2012-02-15 15:07
The requirement for ID to FLY to Ireland, is to do with security, and NOT any immigration requirements.
Right now, today, I can stroll across the border from N.Ireland (the UK) into Ireland. Their are no border checks, and no passport OR ID required.
This question of borders and passports is nonsense, and London knows it.
Right now, today, I can stroll across the border from N.Ireland (the UK) into Ireland. Their are no border checks, and no passport OR ID required.
This question of borders and passports is nonsense, and London knows it.
#
2012-02-15 18:50
Actually whilst travelling from the Irish Republic to the North and vice versa there is no need for identification.
#
2012-02-15 13:05
Record today informs us of the intentions of the "Commons Scottish?? Affairs Committee" under the unbiased Ian Davidson?? They state it is a cross part event. Well yes, if you call all the Unionist parties a cross party enquiry.
Hardly, when there is no SNP representation.
Just another fix, to try and instill fear into the people of Scotland in order to achieve their aims. It is a total sham. Also, the wish to CALL members of the Scottish government. I am sure they will love that, in order to try to embarrass and harrass for their amusement.
Truth is Scotland is getting past all this negative stuff, the Unionists should look to Quebec and note that after barrages of the same kind of things. The electorate disregarded it all.
For me though there is a point of principle in their trying to make political gain from something that should be debated by everyone in the Scottish parliament.
But,fairness and openess is not really what they want. They want to spin it all in their favour.It just should not be allowed, end of.
I would love an open debate in the Scottish parliament on the "McCrone" report. The cause and effect of it on Scotland and it's people. Then let us call them all, Cameron, Milliband, Clegg, and their Scottish versions, to try and justify this report in a televised live tv debate. Now that would be of importance, as due to the report being suppressed by most of the Media, the wider Scottish public are not aware of this utterly damming real, and official document. This has had a profound effect on Scotland. The betrayal held within the pages of this need to be known by EVERY SCOT.
Hardly, when there is no SNP representation.
Just another fix, to try and instill fear into the people of Scotland in order to achieve their aims. It is a total sham. Also, the wish to CALL members of the Scottish government. I am sure they will love that, in order to try to embarrass and harrass for their amusement.
Truth is Scotland is getting past all this negative stuff, the Unionists should look to Quebec and note that after barrages of the same kind of things. The electorate disregarded it all.
For me though there is a point of principle in their trying to make political gain from something that should be debated by everyone in the Scottish parliament.
But,fairness and openess is not really what they want. They want to spin it all in their favour.It just should not be allowed, end of.
I would love an open debate in the Scottish parliament on the "McCrone" report. The cause and effect of it on Scotland and it's people. Then let us call them all, Cameron, Milliband, Clegg, and their Scottish versions, to try and justify this report in a televised live tv debate. Now that would be of importance, as due to the report being suppressed by most of the Media, the wider Scottish public are not aware of this utterly damming real, and official document. This has had a profound effect on Scotland. The betrayal held within the pages of this need to be known by EVERY SCOT.
#
2012-02-15 15:09
Record today informs us of the intentions of the "Commons Scottish?? Affairs Committee" under the unbiased Ian Davidson?? They state it is a cross party event. Well yes, if you call all the Unionist parties a cross party enquiry.
A number of parties are represented on the committee, but there is no getting away from the fact that it is a single issue they are considering and they have excluded representation from others of the opposite point of view. However, I am pleased they have done this as it weakens their credibility and shows them up to be a propagandist organisation for the Union position alone.
A number of parties are represented on the committee, but there is no getting away from the fact that it is a single issue they are considering and they have excluded representation from others of the opposite point of view. However, I am pleased they have done this as it weakens their credibility and shows them up to be a propagandist organisation for the Union position alone.
#
2012-02-15 13:25
The people of Scotland do not need to pay any attention to this claptrap from self seeking unionist's whose only agenda is to self serve their own ambition's. They wear their fear on their sleeve and have no interest in the "common weal" Only the people of our nation will decide the future of this great country and people of Scotland..no more or no less...roll on 2014 and independence.
#
2012-02-15 13:59
Leswil 2012-02-15 12:05
“Record today informs us of the intentions of the "Commons Scottish?? Affairs Committee" under the unbiased Ian Davidson?? They state it is a cross part event. Well yes, if you call all the Unionist parties a cross party enquiry.
Hardly, when there is no SNP representation.”
Why are the SNP are not represented? See the report in today’s Herald.
“Members of the Commons Scottish Affairs Committee, boycotted by the SNP, accuse the Scottish Government of holding back information. Its report says there are too many unanswered questions, including on the future of the armed forces and pension provision.”
“Record today informs us of the intentions of the "Commons Scottish?? Affairs Committee" under the unbiased Ian Davidson?? They state it is a cross part event. Well yes, if you call all the Unionist parties a cross party enquiry.
Hardly, when there is no SNP representation.”
Why are the SNP are not represented? See the report in today’s Herald.
“Members of the Commons Scottish Affairs Committee, boycotted by the SNP, accuse the Scottish Government of holding back information. Its report says there are too many unanswered questions, including on the future of the armed forces and pension provision.”
#
2012-02-15 16:06
"The Scottish Affairs Committee is appointed to examine the administration, policy and expenditure of the Scotland Office and relations with the Scottish Parliament. It also looks at the administration and expenditure of the Advocate General for Scotland."
How does that make the Scottish Parliament/Government answerable to this committee?
How does that make the Scottish Parliament/Government answerable to this committee?
#
2012-02-15 21:41
It might all be bull. We all know it is bull but does the average Daily Record, Daily Mail and Daily Express reader know it is bull? Many people who believe what they read will take this as fact, I did for many years until I found this site and then started looking behind every article.
#
2012-02-15 13:34
Quoting Arraniki:
What's the betting that George Robertson's complaints are used by Johann Lamont at FMQs tomorrow?
I see that the SR has given space to George Robertson to complain that he is being bad-mouthed by a considerable number of his fellow Scots. No great surprise, methinks.
And The Scotsman has a piece of bile from the man who "could have been somebody, before he became a nobody".
Does Jim Sillars now feature in Wavey's White Feather Club? If not, I think it is about time.
History will treat them just the same.
What's the betting that George Robertson's complaints are used by Johann Lamont at FMQs tomorrow?
#
2012-02-15 13:36
Yes but the problem remains that too many Scots, or people living in Scotland, only use the BBC or STV and MSM for their information regarding everything. There will always be a a wheen of folk who will beleive what they are told by them and will never hear or see the truth, thus limiting the YES vote to the staunch Independence people, the undecideds who can be persuaded and perhaps have the gumption to research for themselves and to current Unionists who do have some savvy and will see through the lies and propoganda and change their minds.
There is far more work needing to be done to get the relevent information out to the group of people who need it most, in a way which it is forced on them so they cannot ignore it....like the way the Unionists have every MSM newspaper and the BBC doing it for them. How do we do this....sorry but I've nae idea, leaflets through doors is all very good but a lot of them will end up in the bin without ever being looked at never mind read with an openish mind.
There is far more work needing to be done to get the relevent information out to the group of people who need it most, in a way which it is forced on them so they cannot ignore it....like the way the Unionists have every MSM newspaper and the BBC doing it for them. How do we do this....sorry but I've nae idea, leaflets through doors is all very good but a lot of them will end up in the bin without ever being looked at never mind read with an openish mind.
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2012-02-15 13:48
Mully - many "only use the BBC or STV and MSM for their information regarding everything."
And many not even that. Over here at least, many young people don't seem to watch the news at all - life is too busy I suppose. They may pick up their parents' prejudices at home.
Brand managers insist that famous personalities are the best way of reaching these kids - who, for example? And how?
And many not even that. Over here at least, many young people don't seem to watch the news at all - life is too busy I suppose. They may pick up their parents' prejudices at home.
Brand managers insist that famous personalities are the best way of reaching these kids - who, for example? And how?
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2012-02-15 13:59
Can I suggest the following; seek these people out and ask them the reasonable questions in a manner and try and convince them so that they understand your message without them feeling intimidated. Explain the positive reasons why our nation would be better served by independence and free of being ruled by a foreign country and have the self confidence in ourselves and their fellow countrymen to be able to progress our country Scotland for the betterment of our nation. roll on 2014
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2012-02-15 16:10
Afraid many are beyond logical appeal, especially as "politics = bad - politicians = rubbish". Only modern branding tactics will make a difference.
During the Iraq war I once made a remark to a shop assistant, and she looked puzzled and said "what war?" Maybe people in Scotland are not so daft, but I doubt it.
During the Iraq war I once made a remark to a shop assistant, and she looked puzzled and said "what war?" Maybe people in Scotland are not so daft, but I doubt it.
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2012-02-15 15:19
Glad to see BBC Scotland playing second fiddle to the STV's programme, Scotland Tonight.
Better discussions on STV in my opinion.
Just take last night's programmes. Newsnicht was abysmal. They had the wrong pundits for the Rangers story as STV had managed to get all the important ones and kept them in the studio for all of their programme so that there was no running across to BBC Scotland afterwards.
Better discussions on STV in my opinion.
Just take last night's programmes. Newsnicht was abysmal. They had the wrong pundits for the Rangers story as STV had managed to get all the important ones and kept them in the studio for all of their programme so that there was no running across to BBC Scotland afterwards.
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2012-02-15 13:57
Davidson and his kind are why I became a Nationalist in the first place.I despise the pejorative language and the condescending language in this "report"
As to bullying ,the recent debacle at GDC and Davidson's treatment of Ms Whiteford sumsw up the members of the British Labour Party.
They bring shame to the Labour Party ,its founding fathers and the entire nation of Scotland.
As to bullying ,the recent debacle at GDC and Davidson's treatment of Ms Whiteford sumsw up the members of the British Labour Party.
They bring shame to the Labour Party ,its founding fathers and the entire nation of Scotland.
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2012-02-15 14:11
OT: An article about how the unionist scare stories are not working in the North of Scotland.
johnogroat-journal.co.uk/.../...
johnogroat-journal.co.uk/.../...
#
2012-02-15 14:12
Davidson and the rest of the soon to be westminster lepers,will be cutting each others throats for seats as labour msp's much to the annoyance of the sitting msp's. There will be much civil war in the labour ranks to come, even after independence as they fight each other to get their snouts in the trough.
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2012-02-15 14:17
“Stewart Hosie, the SNP Westminster chief whip, said the report was an "embarrassment to its authors". He said the committee had a "predictably pejorative approach to the issue of Scotland's constitutional future".”
This comment by Mr. Hosie, goes to the heart of the problem.
All political parties have a pejorative approach to the issue of “Scotland’s constitutional future”
The very word “Independence” used by the SNP prejudges that independence is the only way to self determination for Scots.
They know perfectly well that only 30% of Scots prefer that route, but still insist that they can argue only that route, it is their preference.
Self-determination is the principle in international law that nations have the right to freely choose their sovereignty and international political status with no external compulsion or external interference. The principle does not state how the decision is to be made, or what the outcome should be, whether it be independence, federation, protection, some form of autonomy or even full assimilation. Neither does it state what the delimitation between nations should be — or even what constitutes a nation. In fact, there are conflicting definitions and legal criteria for determining which groups may legitimately claim the right to self-determination. Moreover, self-determination is just one of many principles applied to determining international borders.
The question to be asked is what form of self determination do the sovereign people of Scotland wish? They should all be discussed and explained.
In my opinion, the only question presently being offered is PEJORITIVE.
This comment by Mr. Hosie, goes to the heart of the problem.
All political parties have a pejorative approach to the issue of “Scotland’s constitutional future”
The very word “Independence” used by the SNP prejudges that independence is the only way to self determination for Scots.
They know perfectly well that only 30% of Scots prefer that route, but still insist that they can argue only that route, it is their preference.
Self-determination is the principle in international law that nations have the right to freely choose their sovereignty and international political status with no external compulsion or external interference. The principle does not state how the decision is to be made, or what the outcome should be, whether it be independence, federation, protection, some form of autonomy or even full assimilation. Neither does it state what the delimitation between nations should be — or even what constitutes a nation. In fact, there are conflicting definitions and legal criteria for determining which groups may legitimately claim the right to self-determination. Moreover, self-determination is just one of many principles applied to determining international borders.
The question to be asked is what form of self determination do the sovereign people of Scotland wish? They should all be discussed and explained.
In my opinion, the only question presently being offered is PEJORITIVE.
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2012-02-15 14:29
...and what is your opinion on the report, entitled ‘Referendum on Separation for Scotland’? We have your opinion on a reaction to this, but hee haw on the article. Why?
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2012-02-15 14:30
Pejorative means disparaging, belittling or derogatory.
How on earth can describing something as Independent qualify as pejorative?
How on earth can describing something as Independent qualify as pejorative?
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2012-02-15 14:31
Only 30% what do you base this on? Are you claiming to speak for the people of Scotland now exel? Mind you your fellow Lib Dems in London presume to do the same. Invention of figures seems to be another shared trait. When I say fellow Lib Dems we have to remember this makes up a very tiny figure.
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2012-02-15 14:36
Quoting exel:
You might want to look up the word 'pejorative'. It means 'expressing contempt or disapproval. Neither the SNP's position (which is that independence is their preferred route, not that it is the only route) nor the question to be asked are pejorative.
All political parties have a pejorative approach to the issue of “Scotland’s constitutional future”...The very word “Independence” used by the SNP prejudges that independence is the only way to self determination for Scots...In my opinion, the only question presently being offered is PEJORITIVE.
You might want to look up the word 'pejorative'. It means 'expressing contempt or disapproval. Neither the SNP's position (which is that independence is their preferred route, not that it is the only route) nor the question to be asked are pejorative.
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2012-02-15 14:42
Quoting exel:
Being polite in response: The incumbent party of the Scottish Government gained an overall majority in the last election (May 2011) with the mandate to pursue the question of wether the people of Scotland should pursue the reasonable question that the nation of Scotland should seek negotiations regarding the Independence of their elected people..result ..overall majority..going forward they are mandated to do this. What is the problem?
“Stewart Hosie, the SNP Westminster chief whip, said the report was an "embarrassment to its authors". He said the committee had a "predictably pejorative approach to the issue of Scotland's constitutional future".”
This comment by Mr. Hosie, goes to the heart of the problem.
All political parties have a pejorative approach to the issue of “Scotland’s constitutional future”
The very word “Independence” used by the SNP prejudges that independence is the only way to self determination for Scots.
They know perfectly well that only 30% of Scots prefer that route, but still insist that they can argue only that route, it is their preference.
Self-determination is the principle in international law that nations have the right to freely choose their sovereignty and international political status with no external compulsion or external interference. The principle does not state how the decision is to be made, or what the outcome should be, whether it be independence, federation, protection, some form of autonomy or even full assimilation. Neither does it state what the delimitation between nations should be — or even what constitutes a nation. In fact, there are conflicting definitions and legal criteria for determining which groups may legitimately claim the right to self-determination. Moreover, self-determination is just one of many principles applied to determining international borders.
The question to be asked is what form of self determination do the sovereign people of Scotland wish? They should all be discussed and explained.
In my opinion, the only question presently being offered is PEJORITIVE.
Being polite in response: The incumbent party of the Scottish Government gained an overall majority in the last election (May 2011) with the mandate to pursue the question of wether the people of Scotland should pursue the reasonable question that the nation of Scotland should seek negotiations regarding the Independence of their elected people..result ..overall majority..going forward they are mandated to do this. What is the problem?
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2012-02-15 14:46
Quoting balgayboy:
The incumbent party of the Scottish Government gained an overall majority in the last election.
What is the problem?
The incumbent party of the Scottish Government gained an overall majority in the last election.
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2012-02-15 14:29
Would Scots need passports to travel? I don't know any nationalities that don't need a passport to travel. I would imagine a similar arrangement would be in place though as for Ireland. At the moment you can travel from anywhere in the UK even fly to Ireland without a passport. I'm looking forward to having a Scottish passport it's embarrassing having to carry a british one.
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2012-02-15 14:35
In the last few days we seem to be seeing more of the bullying Labour members who have been abusive and threatening to women. First GCC now Davidson.
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2012-02-15 14:37
Still nobody addressing the fact that Westminster haven't opened the books yet so full fiscal analysis of Scotland's real worth can be assessed. I wonder why not? Many of the questions listed have already been answered many, many times. Others can't be addressed until after Independence or until Westminster fully accounts for every penny it receives from Scottish sources.
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2012-02-15 14:46
The above committee report was just used on BBC Reporting Scotland.
Jackie Bird:
What would happen to the nuclear sub base at Faslane, there are questions about bank regulation, pension payments and Scotland's share of the national debt. The SNP said the report was shoddy.
So the Scottish Governmenet did not get to shoot those foxes, only the fear buttons were pressed by the BBC.
Propaganda right there.
Jackie Bird:
What would happen to the nuclear sub base at Faslane, there are questions about bank regulation, pension payments and Scotland's share of the national debt. The SNP said the report was shoddy.
So the Scottish Governmenet did not get to shoot those foxes, only the fear buttons were pressed by the BBC.
Propaganda right there.
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2012-02-15 15:18
More from the BBC today aswell...
bbc.co.uk/.../...
bbc.co.uk/.../...
Check the dates and read the first couple of paragraphs.... unbelieveable!
bbc.co.uk/.../...
bbc.co.uk/.../...
Check the dates and read the first couple of paragraphs.... unbelieveable!
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2012-02-15 17:53
Slightly off topic, but not sure where best to post this link I found on Facebook page 'Exposing anti Independence bias on BBC'
independent.co.uk/.../...
takes you to an article in The Independent (sic) 1998 when BBC gagged their journalists/presenters against speaking out in support of a case for the Scottish Six...in order to maintain...impartiality!
independent.co.uk/.../...
takes you to an article in The Independent (sic) 1998 when BBC gagged their journalists/presenters against speaking out in support of a case for the Scottish Six...in order to maintain...impartiality!
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2012-02-15 17:01
18 January 2012 Last updated at 12:02
Unemployment in Scotland rose by 19,000 to 231,000 in the three months from September to November, according to official figures.
The number of people claiming benefit fell by 1,400 in December, although the level is up 3,100 on a year ago. The total is now 140,900.
The Scottish unemployment rate is now 8.6%, which is higher than the UK average of 8.4%.
Total UK unemployment rose 118,000 to 2.68 million.
Responding to the figures, Scottish Finance Secretary John Swinney repeated his call for a UK-wide jobs summit to agree an immediate programme of employment creation.
15 February 2012 Last updated at 11:30
Unemployment in Scotland rose by 16,000 in the three months from October to December to reach 231,000, according to official figures.
The Scottish jobless rate now stands at 8.6% - above the UK average of 8.4%.
Employment in Scotland fell by 20,000 over the quarter to reach 2,458,000.
Data from the Office for National Statistics also showed the Scottish claimant count fall by 200 to 141,200 in January - 1,500 up on the same month last year.
Scottish Finance Secretary John Swinney said it was clear from the figures that "further sustained action" was needed to support Scotland's economic recovery."
BBC at the Re-hash Cut N' Paste... either that or unemployment keeps on rising perpetually to the magic ceiling of 231,000. LOL
Unemployment in Scotland rose by 19,000 to 231,000 in the three months from September to November, according to official figures.
The number of people claiming benefit fell by 1,400 in December, although the level is up 3,100 on a year ago. The total is now 140,900.
The Scottish unemployment rate is now 8.6%, which is higher than the UK average of 8.4%.
Total UK unemployment rose 118,000 to 2.68 million.
Responding to the figures, Scottish Finance Secretary John Swinney repeated his call for a UK-wide jobs summit to agree an immediate programme of employment creation.
15 February 2012 Last updated at 11:30
Unemployment in Scotland rose by 16,000 in the three months from October to December to reach 231,000, according to official figures.
The Scottish jobless rate now stands at 8.6% - above the UK average of 8.4%.
Employment in Scotland fell by 20,000 over the quarter to reach 2,458,000.
Data from the Office for National Statistics also showed the Scottish claimant count fall by 200 to 141,200 in January - 1,500 up on the same month last year.
Scottish Finance Secretary John Swinney said it was clear from the figures that "further sustained action" was needed to support Scotland's economic recovery."
BBC at the Re-hash Cut N' Paste... either that or unemployment keeps on rising perpetually to the magic ceiling of 231,000. LOL
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2012-02-15 17:12
It's actually far worse than that.
Unemployment in Scotland rose by 5,000, to 215,000 16 November 2011
14 December 2011: bbc.co.uk/.../...
Quote:
18 January 2012: bbc.co.uk/.../...
Quote:
15 February 2012: bbc.co.uk/.../...
Quote:
November it was 215,000 + (25+19+16)ths 60,000 = 275,000 meaning a fictional 44,000 have been used for political reasons!
Unemployment in Scotland rose by 5,000, to 215,000 16 November 2011
14 December 2011: bbc.co.uk/.../...
Quote:
Unemployment in Scotland rose by 25,000 to 229,000
18 January 2012: bbc.co.uk/.../...
Quote:
Unemployment in Scotland rose by 19,000 to 231,000
15 February 2012: bbc.co.uk/.../...
Quote:
Unemployment in Scotland rose by 16,000 to 231,000
November it was 215,000 + (25+19+16)ths 60,000 = 275,000 meaning a fictional 44,000 have been used for political reasons!
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2012-02-15 19:08
Johann Lamont said things " were spiralling out of control" . Finally a reaction to Glasgow Council maybe?
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2012-02-15 14:58
Can someone confirm if you can fly anywhere in the UK or to Ireland without a passport?
I thought a passport was needed on all flights for security reasons.
Oops. I see Alba4Eva has provided the confirmation. Thanks.
I thought a passport was needed on all flights for security reasons.
Oops. I see Alba4Eva has provided the confirmation. Thanks.
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2012-02-15 15:04
The requirement is for photo ID. However, some airline staff have been known to refuse other forms of photo ID. A passport is always accepted.
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2012-02-15 15:22
Irish Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade Passport Office.
dfa.ie/.../index.aspx?id=253
"Passports are required for travel to all countries except the United Kingdom. (However, you should note that some airlines now require photo-ID for flights to the UK). With the exception of travel to the U.K., Irish citizens require a valid passport for travel to all other destinations in the E.U."
dfa.ie/.../index.aspx?id=253
"Passports are required for travel to all countries except the United Kingdom. (However, you should note that some airlines now require photo-ID for flights to the UK). With the exception of travel to the U.K., Irish citizens require a valid passport for travel to all other destinations in the E.U."
#
2012-02-15 15:16
why didn't Davidson and his committee call on someone to answer his questions? Incompetence.
Freedom
Freedom
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2012-02-15 15:34
As for Scotland not attaining a AAA rating. Scotland post-independence will be in a better position than Norway was before oil. 40 years on Norway is one the richest countries in the world now. There is at least 40-100 years of oil left for us to become like Norway. England I feel without our resources and crippling debt will become Greece.
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2012-02-15 15:51
O/T, sorry, but anyone else notice how often the Herald does this on the letters page?
heraldscotland.com/.../...
Big headline - 'Irresponsible to give 16 year-olds the vote' - three letters beneath, one for, one against, one not mentioning 16 year olds at all. I've posted a complaint as I'm fed up seeing this sort of distortion but I fully expect my comment to just vanish, criticism of editorial policy not allowed!
heraldscotland.com/.../...
Big headline - 'Irresponsible to give 16 year-olds the vote' - three letters beneath, one for, one against, one not mentioning 16 year olds at all. I've posted a complaint as I'm fed up seeing this sort of distortion but I fully expect my comment to just vanish, criticism of editorial policy not allowed!
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2012-02-15 15:57
Talking of shoddy and embarrassing, here is Labour Hame's latest positive case for the Union from the mouth of Richard Baker.
labourhame.com/.../...
You may judge for yourself the intellectual content of his contribution. But to give a small passing flavour, he asserts that the BBC is not a state broadcaster in his opening paragraph then three paragraphs later asserts that it is...
labourhame.com/.../...
You may judge for yourself the intellectual content of his contribution. But to give a small passing flavour, he asserts that the BBC is not a state broadcaster in his opening paragraph then three paragraphs later asserts that it is...
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2012-02-16 10:53
Left them this comment at 0951,
Ok Vidkun, you dont like the word "Gauleiter" .. mild in comparison to what has been said of A.S. over the past few months.
Perhaps Kommisar suits you better!
See how long it lasts!!
Ok Vidkun, you dont like the word "Gauleiter" .. mild in comparison to what has been said of A.S. over the past few months.
Perhaps Kommisar suits you better!
See how long it lasts!!
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2012-02-15 16:10
This was always going to be the pap produced by this non committee, working outside of the rules of a select committee - the sole purpose of a select committee is to question UK Government decisions in relation to the committee's remit.
As far as I know the UK Government has made it's decision which is to stop Scottish Independence at all costs. At any point in this report is the impact on Westminster of this decision reviewed or the impact on the other UK Ministries of State - no.
Is there any objectively evidenced references to the impact of Scottish Independence on the rump UK - no.
Is there any cross reference to the SNP's document 'Your Scotland, Your Future',or any of the White papers freely available on the Scottish Government site - no.
Does the UK Government have to take any cognaisance of this report - no.
That leaves the real question:
Why was over a million pounds wasted on this report that comes straight from 'Unionist Scare Stories for Dummies' manual?
As far as I know the UK Government has made it's decision which is to stop Scottish Independence at all costs. At any point in this report is the impact on Westminster of this decision reviewed or the impact on the other UK Ministries of State - no.
Is there any objectively evidenced references to the impact of Scottish Independence on the rump UK - no.
Is there any cross reference to the SNP's document 'Your Scotland, Your Future',or any of the White papers freely available on the Scottish Government site - no.
Does the UK Government have to take any cognaisance of this report - no.
That leaves the real question:
Why was over a million pounds wasted on this report that comes straight from 'Unionist Scare Stories for Dummies' manual?
#
2012-02-15 16:11
Why was over a million pounds wasted on this report that comes straight from 'Unionist Scare Stories for Dummies' manual?
Seriously? a million pounds....evidence please
PS I'm not saying you are wrong I just like evidence
Seriously? a million pounds....evidence please
PS I'm not saying you are wrong I just like evidence
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2012-02-15 16:23
I believe Davidson wants to have a go at the Scotland Bill when it comes back from the Lords. Moore promised him his committee would get to scrutinze it.
So the procedure for the passage of bills seems to have changed. It's the Commons, then the Lords, then the Scottish Affairs Select Committtee, then the Commons, then the Lords...and so on.
They just seem to change the rules to suit themselves.
Has Moore got the authority to let this happen?
The proceedings of this committee from July 2011 will go down in history as a dastardly event full of deception and downright lies.
So the procedure for the passage of bills seems to have changed. It's the Commons, then the Lords, then the Scottish Affairs Select Committtee, then the Commons, then the Lords...and so on.
They just seem to change the rules to suit themselves.
Has Moore got the authority to let this happen?
The proceedings of this committee from July 2011 will go down in history as a dastardly event full of deception and downright lies.
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2012-02-15 16:35
Worth looking at original to see (a) what passes for a UK gov committee report nowadays and (b) the open arrogance of the unionists.
publications.parliament.uk/.../...
But even better, take a glance at the Written Evidence the Cttee chose to include e.g. "Who will I pay my car road tax to Swansea or where?"
That said, people do ask these type of questions...
publications.parliament.uk/.../...
But even better, take a glance at the Written Evidence the Cttee chose to include e.g. "Who will I pay my car road tax to Swansea or where?"
That said, people do ask these type of questions...
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2012-02-15 17:52
Who says we will be paying "road" tax ?
Just another form of revenue for the Treasury black hole.We might decide that it isn't required or that we could generate tax revenues in a more efficient manner.
Just another form of revenue for the Treasury black hole.We might decide that it isn't required or that we could generate tax revenues in a more efficient manner.
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2012-02-15 18:29
Quoting bringiton:
Was there not talk of it being included on fuel duty, don't know might be wrong.
Who says we will be paying "road" tax ?
Just another form of revenue for the Treasury black hole.We might decide that it isn't required or that we could generate tax revenues in a more efficient manner.
Was there not talk of it being included on fuel duty, don't know might be wrong.
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2012-02-15 16:54
Did this committee bother to take a look at the document "Your Scotland Your Future" which sets out the answers to many of the questions?
I'm afraid the MPs have not delivered any value in this report; no vision, no ideas. Really shallow.
I'm afraid the MPs have not delivered any value in this report; no vision, no ideas. Really shallow.
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2012-02-15 17:00
There was a contribution from Professor Anthony J Trewavas, that demonstrates how foolish some academics can be when they step outside their chosen sphere of expertise.
publications.parliament.uk/.../...
Trewavas is a prof at Edinburgh Uni specialising in plant physiology and molecular biology.
His contribution to the debate is that a biased question should be asked favouring the Union, wanders into energy policy, and ends with a rant as to why Labour isn't doing anything about anything "When is the labour party going to do something about the disproportionat e distribution of land in Scotland? Andy Wightman’s book 'The poor had no lawyers' reveals the shameful situation only too well."
I can tell the good professor the answer. It's because Labour isn't in power in Holyrood or Westminster, and didn't take the opportunity when they were in power in both.
publications.parliament.uk/.../...
Trewavas is a prof at Edinburgh Uni specialising in plant physiology and molecular biology.
His contribution to the debate is that a biased question should be asked favouring the Union, wanders into energy policy, and ends with a rant as to why Labour isn't doing anything about anything "When is the labour party going to do something about the disproportionat e distribution of land in Scotland? Andy Wightman’s book 'The poor had no lawyers' reveals the shameful situation only too well."
I can tell the good professor the answer. It's because Labour isn't in power in Holyrood or Westminster, and didn't take the opportunity when they were in power in both.
#
2012-02-15 17:21
Just aswell Eilidh Whiteford distanced herself from this band of halfwits.
Are they really serious?
So here we have the first declared positives of union, which are Eastenders on telly and the right to travel to England without travel restrictions or visas?
Ian Davidson, what a beaut!
Are they really serious?
So here we have the first declared positives of union, which are Eastenders on telly and the right to travel to England without travel restrictions or visas?
Ian Davidson, what a beaut!
#
2012-02-15 17:22
One of the questions from an anon.contributor was
Will I be able to continue buying my wine from the Times wine club?
Either they were poking fun at them or they are buying a paper which I would suggest is above their intellectual capacity No wonder a name wasn't given
Sorry nottoowee I hadn't noticed you'd posted the same further up the thread
Will I be able to continue buying my wine from the Times wine club?
Either they were poking fun at them or they are buying a paper which I would suggest is above their intellectual capacity No wonder a name wasn't given
Sorry nottoowee I hadn't noticed you'd posted the same further up the thread
#
2012-02-15 17:43
Yes, Mato, unless Paolo Nutini (he's a current idol, perhaps?) says it, it doesn't register - see he's lined up to play John Lennon in some UK project.
How good is the SNP at the social media?
How good is the SNP at the social media?
#
2012-02-15 17:45
Mato21,that's the funniest question. Another good one is 'will the school curriculum include 'English''
#
2012-02-15 18:01
What about:
"Will there still be births, deaths and marriages after Scottish independence?"
Doh!
"Will there still be births, deaths and marriages after Scottish independence?"
Doh!
#
2012-02-15 18:11
A lady called Margaret Anderson wrote in to the Committee. She "would like to ask why there has been no mention of the defence of Scotland. Will Scotland have its own army, air force and navy? If so, will the Scottish Government recruit and pay for the forces personnel and if not, will Scotland be left without any defence force."
Far be it from me to ridicule someone who bothered to write to Davidson's committee, but I would respectfully suggest to her that if she knew how to write to this Committee, then she should have had enough knowledge to know that the question has been extensively discussed.
Of course, I don't know who the lady is, but it seems distinctly possible that her "Question" was suggested to her during a Labour Party branch meeting.
Far be it from me to ridicule someone who bothered to write to Davidson's committee, but I would respectfully suggest to her that if she knew how to write to this Committee, then she should have had enough knowledge to know that the question has been extensively discussed.
Of course, I don't know who the lady is, but it seems distinctly possible that her "Question" was suggested to her during a Labour Party branch meeting.
#
2012-02-15 18:40
I think given the quality of the questions they asked them themselves.
Maybe they wrote to each other
Maybe they wrote to each other
#
2012-02-15 18:14
I can't help but think that Ian Davidson reminds me of Bill Frazer of Bootsie and Snudge, of yesteryear.
#
2012-02-15 18:16
Oldnat; I was thinking the same thing. How would you know that you can submit a question to a Wetminster committee and then ask if your delivery from the Sunday Times Wine Club will continue? They may be anonymous submissions but I wonder how many of these people Davidson knows?
#
2012-02-15 18:20
All the anonymous comments came from the Daily Record.
dailyrecord.co.uk/.../...
We shouldn't assume that they all came from readers. The Sunday Times Wine Club question may have come from Magnus Gardham.
dailyrecord.co.uk/.../...
We shouldn't assume that they all came from readers. The Sunday Times Wine Club question may have come from Magnus Gardham.
#
2012-02-15 20:05
Frequently there are letters in the Record that look like they have been written to a specification. Usually anonymous, but sometimes from Mrs Smith of Tillicoultry, just to make them look authentic.
#
2012-02-15 18:20
OT.... A Scottish Ex-Pat in the USA campaigning for Ron Paul...
www.youtube.com/.../
Good man! *:0)
www.youtube.com/.../
www.youtube.com/.../
Good man! *:0)
www.youtube.com/.../
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2012-02-15 20:15
I think it just shows the power of a totally corrupt MSM and illustrates the fight we have here to counteract the negativity shown by our own so-called media.
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2012-02-15 21:58
Absolutely.... what is happening over the pond just now should give us all pause for thought. Frightening stuff!
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2012-02-15 18:34
I wonder if all the questions were published?
Surely someone asked ' will Scottish MP's get a P45 if Scotland becomes Independent?'
Surely someone asked ' will Scottish MP's get a P45 if Scotland becomes Independent?'
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2012-02-15 18:42
A quick search on one of the contributors of written evidence revealed this article with a delightful mugshot too. Can this be the same person? motherwelltimes.co.uk/.../...
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2012-02-15 18:42
Dear Mr. Davidson and committee,
can you tell me if my autonomic nervous system and it's attendant visceral functions will continue to operate normally after independence?
Yours aye
Senga McBonkers
can you tell me if my autonomic nervous system and it's attendant visceral functions will continue to operate normally after independence?
Yours aye
Senga McBonkers
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2012-02-15 18:50
Greetings from Raleigh, North Carolina. I realise this is O/T but I was thinking of contributing to the Scottish Government's consultation. Before I go and make a bigger idiot out of myself than I am already, can someone please tell me if there has been any effort in Scotland to provide early (in-person) voting in Scotland. If not, I would be happy to share my experiences as a voter over here in the USA.
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2012-02-15 19:34
Welcome Skip
Hope you enjoy our site and that you will continue to contribute It's always good to see how others, especially from another country, see you
Hope you enjoy our site and that you will continue to contribute It's always good to see how others, especially from another country, see you
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2012-02-15 20:00
Hey Skip - greetings from a fellow Scot in SW VA! Glad you made it over from Brian's one sided blather at last ;0)
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2012-02-15 18:50
I see one of the questions is from Ruth Black. Part of the question relates to illicit trafficking of drugs. I wonder if this is the same Ruth Black who is a Glasgow Labour councillor who was questioned by Strathclyde police about supplying class A drugs to Steven Purcell.
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2012-02-15 18:52
Well we are all a bit vexed today and no wonder!
More shroud waving and fear generation for the consumption of the fearties in Scotland!
You could not make this stuff up, a few remote, out of touch and biased Westmonster politicians are paid salaries an expenses by us to plot and spin their prejudices against Scotland.
I'm a reasonable person and generally rub along in the crowd allowing others their point of view but this is demeaning, vicious and an insult to Scotland and her Government.
Where's that claymore in the thatch someone said they had stashed and can someone light the fiery cross please!
Alternatively .. key to darkened room until the footie comes on. . .
OH! . .can I still get ITV and BBC on the telly aaaagh. . there's Jackie Bird thought so.
More shroud waving and fear generation for the consumption of the fearties in Scotland!
You could not make this stuff up, a few remote, out of touch and biased Westmonster politicians are paid salaries an expenses by us to plot and spin their prejudices against Scotland.
I'm a reasonable person and generally rub along in the crowd allowing others their point of view but this is demeaning, vicious and an insult to Scotland and her Government.
Where's that claymore in the thatch someone said they had stashed and can someone light the fiery cross please!
Alternatively .. key to darkened room until the footie comes on. . .
OH! . .can I still get ITV and BBC on the telly aaaagh. . there's Jackie Bird thought so.
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2012-02-15 19:07
Have I understood this correctly? A Westminster committee gathered as many questions as they could find, didn't bother to check if any of them were intelligent or rational, didn't bother to check if any of them were already answered, didn't bother with any questions that related to the rUK rather than an independent Scotland and then published them all so the Unionist media could shriek "Oh no! Doubt! Uncertainty! Hide until 2015!"?
Is that about it?
Is that about it?
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2012-02-15 19:30
Yep thats it in a nutshell Jiggsbro. More Unionist misinformation and scaremongering. I mean the word separation in this committees' heading, i mean come on!
This committee has been damaged goods from the beginning. So in regard to its findings, who cares!
This committee has been damaged goods from the beginning. So in regard to its findings, who cares!
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2012-02-15 19:52
No wonder, they're acting way beyond remit and would not have the background / staff to do so. That kind of explains why bodies have things like remits and what happens if they exceed them.
Don't lets mention common sense because that's obviously an optional extra especially down Westminster way.
Don't lets mention common sense because that's obviously an optional extra especially down Westminster way.
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2012-02-15 19:10
From the Wikipedia entry for Ian Davidson:
Expenses scandal
During the 2009-10 Expenses Scandal, it emerged that Davidson claimed £87,699 in the four years to 2007; only £30 below the maximum permitted. He has since admitted that he wished he had a larger mortgage on his London flat to allow him to claim more in allowances.
Can we still expect to be ripped off by representatives of the people in an Independent Scotland?
Expenses scandal
During the 2009-10 Expenses Scandal, it emerged that Davidson claimed £87,699 in the four years to 2007; only £30 below the maximum permitted. He has since admitted that he wished he had a larger mortgage on his London flat to allow him to claim more in allowances.
Can we still expect to be ripped off by representatives of the people in an Independent Scotland?
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2012-02-15 20:07
Quoting Marga B:
And everyone should share it on their FaceBook page - I just did.
Brilliant! Direct action!
And everyone should share it on their FaceBook page - I just did.
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2012-02-15 19:24
Jiggsbro 2012-02-15 13:36
“You might want to look up the word 'pejorative'. It means 'expressing contempt or disapproval. Neither the SNP's position (which is that independence is their preferred route, not that it is the only route) nor the question to be asked are pejorative.”
Come on J how often do I use a word which I have not looked up?
Your definition is of course correct; the difference is in the context.
Mr Hosie used “expressing contempt” in an equally contemptuous context.
Earlier in my post I said:
“The very word “Independence” used by the SNP prejudges that independence is the only way to self determination for Scots. They know perfectly well that only 30% of Scots prefer that route, but still insist that they can argue only that route, it is their preference.”
The second sentence formed my opinion of the question. Was it not Mr. Salmond who said he was aware that a large body of the electorate preferred something different? Does that not show contempt for 70% of the electorate?
My use of the word however was to illustrate my disapproval of the way the question is being put.
“You might want to look up the word 'pejorative'. It means 'expressing contempt or disapproval. Neither the SNP's position (which is that independence is their preferred route, not that it is the only route) nor the question to be asked are pejorative.”
Come on J how often do I use a word which I have not looked up?
Your definition is of course correct; the difference is in the context.
Mr Hosie used “expressing contempt” in an equally contemptuous context.
Earlier in my post I said:
“The very word “Independence” used by the SNP prejudges that independence is the only way to self determination for Scots. They know perfectly well that only 30% of Scots prefer that route, but still insist that they can argue only that route, it is their preference.”
The second sentence formed my opinion of the question. Was it not Mr. Salmond who said he was aware that a large body of the electorate preferred something different? Does that not show contempt for 70% of the electorate?
My use of the word however was to illustrate my disapproval of the way the question is being put.
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2012-02-15 19:48
Quoting exel:
Do you not think your sophistry shows contempt for the people with whom you 'discuss'?
A political party having a policy does not 'show contempt' for the majority who inevitably do not support that policy, neither does having a preference prejudge that that preference is the only option.
Do you really have nothing better to do than this sort of self-serving nonsense?
The second sentence formed my opinion of the question. Was it not Mr. Salmond who said he was aware that a large body of the electorate preferred something different? Does that not show contempt for 70% of the electorate?
Do you not think your sophistry shows contempt for the people with whom you 'discuss'?
A political party having a policy does not 'show contempt' for the majority who inevitably do not support that policy, neither does having a preference prejudge that that preference is the only option.
Do you really have nothing better to do than this sort of self-serving nonsense?
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2012-02-16 00:30
You really need to keep up with the polls exel, if you're going to quote them. The latest polls show the pro-independence preference is now over 40% and the trend is upwards, as even the BBC's favourite "political expert" Professor Curtice admitted in a recent programme.
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2012-02-15 19:24
I am sick to death of this national debt crap
Correct me if im wrong but if 8.4 percent of debt(again open to correction on percentage) is ours then do we not own 8.4 percent of everything that wastemonster has spent money on.
Like do we not own 8.4 percent of the m25
wembley ect and do they intend to buy that back from us and how they would pay for that? just a thought
Correct me if im wrong but if 8.4 percent of debt(again open to correction on percentage) is ours then do we not own 8.4 percent of everything that wastemonster has spent money on.
Like do we not own 8.4 percent of the m25
wembley ect and do they intend to buy that back from us and how they would pay for that? just a thought
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2012-02-15 20:48
Actually there is a catalogue being put together of all the art work in the UK thats owned by the 'UK'
Whats catalogued can be found here :
bbc.co.uk/.../yourpaintings
So get your shopping list, remember you can only take 8.4% of the total
It will include the UK Government art collection :
www.gac.culture.gov.uk/
Whats catalogued can be found here :
bbc.co.uk/.../yourpaintings
So get your shopping list, remember you can only take 8.4% of the total
It will include the UK Government art collection :
www.gac.culture.gov.uk/
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2012-02-15 20:54
Should mention that the UK Government art collection provides details of where everything is as its spread out accross the world in British Embassies and other UK overseas offices. So as well as taking over 8.4% of all overseas Embassies, were entitled to 8.4% of the artwork housed in the rest.
Im sure someone can sit down and work it all out
Im sure someone can sit down and work it all out
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2012-02-15 19:50
We already had our 8.4% of the old Wembley in '77. I'm sure we can arrange something similar for the new one.
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2012-02-15 20:57
While your at it, take the old carpetbag along to the British Museum and help yourself to 8.4% of its contents
We will of course be keeping the Lewis Chessmen
We will of course be keeping the Lewis Chessmen
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2012-02-15 20:22
Quoting Begbie:
Seriously that is a very good point...would that not make a fair dent in whatever is decided that we do owe as a share of the 'debt'
I am sick to death of this national debt crap
Correct me if im wrong but if 8.4 percent of debt(again open to correction on percentage) is ours then do we not own 8.4 percent of everything that wastemonster has spent money on.
Like do we not own 8.4 percent of the m25
wembley ect and do they intend to buy that back from us and how they would pay for that? just a thought
Seriously that is a very good point...would that not make a fair dent in whatever is decided that we do owe as a share of the 'debt'
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2012-02-15 20:28
Seriously, it's not a very good point if you think it through - the logical response from Unionists would be that RUK own 91.6% of everything that "wastemonster" has spent money on in Scotland, and that an Independent Scotland would have to buy that out.
I don't think it's a good card to play at all.
I don't think it's a good card to play at all.
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2012-02-15 20:38
I think it's a good point if it's british assets, british gold, MOD, BBC, Embassies etc. I think another point of the debt share would be for Wastemonster to give us a breakdown of what portion of that debt Scotland ran up and where it was spent. i.e. 1 trillion debt but only 100 million went to Scotland/caused by Scotland, should we still pay 840 million of this debt?
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2012-02-15 21:05
Quoting Harry.Shanks:
And that would consist of ?
Compared to what has been spent/built south of the border ....I think we would do ok in that deal.
Seriously, it's not a very good point if you think it through - the logical response from Unionists would be that RUK own 91.6% of everything that "wastemonster" has spent money on in Scotland, and that an Independent Scotland would have to buy that out.
I don't think it's a good card to play at all.
And that would consist of ?
Compared to what has been spent/built south of the border ....I think we would do ok in that deal.
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2012-02-15 21:15
I have no idea what it would consist of but you can be damned sure that the Unionists would manage to produce a very long list with a hefty price tag.
I just do not think that it is an argument we either need or want to get into.
I just do not think that it is an argument we either need or want to get into.
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2012-02-15 19:54
# Jiggsbro 2012-02-15 18:50
We already had our 8.4% of the old Wembley in '77. I'm sure we can arrange something similar for the new one.
LMAO
We already had our 8.4% of the old Wembley in '77. I'm sure we can arrange something similar for the new one.
LMAO
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2012-02-15 20:04
Alex Salmond speaking right now at the London School of Economics..... Sooooo wish there was a live feed! :(
www2.lse.ac.uk/.../...
www2.lse.ac.uk/.../...
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2012-02-15 20:30
Quoting Alba4Eva:
some sort of twitter feed here...
twitter.com/.../...
Article about it in scotsman....
scotsman.com/.../...
more here....
scotland.gov.uk/.../...
Alex Salmond speaking right now at the London School of Economics..... Sooooo wish there was a live feed! :(
www2.lse.ac.uk/.../...
some sort of twitter feed here...
twitter.com/.../...
Article about it in scotsman....
scotsman.com/.../...
more here....
scotland.gov.uk/.../...
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2012-02-15 21:06
It was reported that he had stated his intention to start a Scottish oil fund on the lines of Norway among other things.
Sure it will be on misreporting Scotland later.
Sure it will be on misreporting Scotland later.
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2012-02-15 21:19
couple of tweets...
Craig Cockburn @siliconglen
Very positive reception for Alex Salmond from an initially sceptical audience, "well received" #lsescotland #indyref
@Draz_DJ
Alex Salmond says "Yes", independent Scotland could have bailed out RBS.Lots of sceptical faces in the audience as he said that #LSEScotland
Craig Cockburn @siliconglen
Very positive reception for Alex Salmond from an initially sceptical audience, "well received" #lsescotland #indyref
@Draz_DJ
Alex Salmond says "Yes", independent Scotland could have bailed out RBS.Lots of sceptical faces in the audience as he said that #LSEScotland
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2012-02-15 20:15
It seems that Baroness Warsi and the Foreign Office have got themselves involved in a bit of trouble with the Catholic Church in Scotland. Not forgetting Mr Moore too. Scotland's man in London?
Hell mend them as some would say.
Hell mend them as some would say.
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2012-02-16 00:42
Quoting J Wil:
What puzzles me as a non-practising member of the Church of Scotland, is I know a Cardinal is the highest rank in the Church of Rome, under the Pope. So how did this Varsi woman not know this simple fact? I can only come to the conclusion that this was a deliberate snub to the "Scottish" Cardinal, as the main politician in the party was the Secretary of State for Scotland, Mickey Moore himself ... God rot 'im! I presume Moore is a Catholic, so surely he could have pointed out this "anomaly" to Ms Varsi?
It seems that Baroness Varsee and the Foreign Office have got themselves involved in a bit of trouble with the Catholic Church in Scotland. Not forgetting Mr Moore too. Scotland's man in London?
Hell mend them as some would say.
What puzzles me as a non-practising member of the Church of Scotland, is I know a Cardinal is the highest rank in the Church of Rome, under the Pope. So how did this Varsi woman not know this simple fact? I can only come to the conclusion that this was a deliberate snub to the "Scottish" Cardinal, as the main politician in the party was the Secretary of State for Scotland, Mickey Moore himself ... God rot 'im! I presume Moore is a Catholic, so surely he could have pointed out this "anomaly" to Ms Varsi?
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2012-02-16 00:48
I think Moore's dad was a Kirk of Scotland chaplain in the British Army. What his own religious predelictions are, I have no idea.
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2012-02-15 20:43
I'm sure that when the time comes, the Scottish people will compare the report originating in Westminster, and the far more detailed and thoughtful report originating in Holyrood, and come to their own conclusions.
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2012-02-15 21:35
Ach... no you again! You're no allowed to post here until.... well... a wee while yet. A'hm still smartin' fae the Rugby the noo!
LOL *;0)
LOL *;0)
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2012-02-15 20:51
# Harry.Shanks 2012-02-15 19:28
Seriously, it's not a very good point if you think it through - the logical response from Unionists would be that RUK own 91.6% of everything that "wastemonster" has spent money on in Scotland, and that an Independent Scotland would have to buy that out.
I don't think it's a good card to play at all.
The thing is harry if wastemonster gives us a block grant of 31 billion but actually takes more than that out of scotland should this lets say profit not be taken into consideration and also if they have been taking more than they give us back then why should we be responsible for the debt they have run up
see this is where it gets confusing for me
Seriously, it's not a very good point if you think it through - the logical response from Unionists would be that RUK own 91.6% of everything that "wastemonster" has spent money on in Scotland, and that an Independent Scotland would have to buy that out.
I don't think it's a good card to play at all.
The thing is harry if wastemonster gives us a block grant of 31 billion but actually takes more than that out of scotland should this lets say profit not be taken into consideration and also if they have been taking more than they give us back then why should we be responsible for the debt they have run up
see this is where it gets confusing for me
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2012-02-15 21:59
Do not fotget that on day one of the Union Englanf came with massive National Debts run up fighting wars all over Europe. One of the reasons they wanted Scotland on side to close their back door to attacks. However, They had bled Scotland dry, due to same, "English Navigational Acts", that caused the wars in Europe. Scotland was broke but had NO national debt whatsoever. Ever since then they have still bled Scotland dry. Remember too that they cannot claim, "England", were putting funds into Scotland's infrastructure. That funding was from The United Kingdom Parliament in which we were equal sovereign partners. Just like a marriage settlement both partners contribute to the marriage, not just one of them. Come on guys and gals, stop believing the enemy propaganda.
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2012-02-15 22:08
There WILL BE NO rump. Just greater England. The daft arguament that they, "OWN" 91.6% is rubbish and falls right into their trap. They may contribute 91.6% but they also REQUIRE 91.6% of the resources. When you do accounts you don't just consider the Assets you set them against the debits. How much have they poured into London since 1707? How namy geed Scottish young men have died for that Union? The Scots lost more men in every war that the union has involved us in since 1707.
Just look at the last 6 years. Scotland in surplus and the UK,(with its 91.6% running a deficit of £3 trillion.
What school did you go to? Who taught you maths?
Just look at the last 6 years. Scotland in surplus and the UK,(with its 91.6% running a deficit of £3 trillion.
What school did you go to? Who taught you maths?
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2012-02-15 20:55
BBC Reporting Scotland wheeled out token Scottish Tory MP and deputy Scottish Secretary, David ' Mundane' Mundell to spout his tuppence worth on the subject. The man does my head in, so much so that I reach for the remote to relieve the torture of listening to him. He has nothing of relevance to say to me.
Has anyone else noticed his owl-like features. Unfortunately for him that is as far as the owl connection goes - he is certainly not endowed with wisdom.
Has anyone else noticed his owl-like features. Unfortunately for him that is as far as the owl connection goes - he is certainly not endowed with wisdom.
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2012-02-15 22:18
Quoting BillCo:
Yes I have often wondered if he is on something. Its the eyes, I am sure if he gets really excited his eyes form spirals and rotate. They really should bring back Monty Python. He could be in the Ministry of Scare Stories sketches.
Mind you maybe I should just lay off the booze when I watch TV, but I like to try and keep up my "5 a day" routine..
Has anyone else noticed his owl-like features. Unfortunately for him that is as far as the owl connection goes - he is certainly not endowed with wisdom.
Yes I have often wondered if he is on something. Its the eyes, I am sure if he gets really excited his eyes form spirals and rotate. They really should bring back Monty Python. He could be in the Ministry of Scare Stories sketches.
Mind you maybe I should just lay off the booze when I watch TV, but I like to try and keep up my "5 a day" routine..
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2012-02-15 21:00
We might take mundell (the owl with no wisdom)(Thanks Billco) a bit more seriously if he could answer the questions asked of him instead of giving the camera a shower
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2012-02-15 21:18
They really need to change the language they're using if they want to be taken seriously and not negative. 'Separation' and that annoying git Mundell saying '...Scotland torn out of the UK'. Makes the blood boil. I ended up throwing my shoe at the TV when he appeared!
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2012-02-15 21:28
#:) What an insult!
Hope you missed. . watch the blood pressure we want everybody fit and healthy for 2014.
Hope you missed. . watch the blood pressure we want everybody fit and healthy for 2014.
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2012-02-15 21:21
Im sure we could produce a long long list of our own which would dwarf theirs
But like you say harry it might be best left alone (for now):).
But like you say harry it might be best left alone (for now):).
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2012-02-15 21:23
Well, having read all the posts >200, we all seem to be vexed today and no wonder!
To think we pay their salaries and expenses to have these out of touch Westmonster MP's plan and spin their prejudices against Scotland and her people. It's shroud waving scare stories for fearties; demeaning and insulting to our intelligence!
Where is that claymore someone further up the thread has hidden in the thatched roof and is there a fiery cross to hand!
Alternatively there is the key to the darkened room or the footie!
OH! . . . wait do we still have BBC and ITV on the telly?
Aaaaagh. . (sigh) Jackie Bird . . . thought so ach!.. all's well with the world then.
Roll on 2014, can I put my postal vote in now?
To think we pay their salaries and expenses to have these out of touch Westmonster MP's plan and spin their prejudices against Scotland and her people. It's shroud waving scare stories for fearties; demeaning and insulting to our intelligence!
Where is that claymore someone further up the thread has hidden in the thatched roof and is there a fiery cross to hand!
Alternatively there is the key to the darkened room or the footie!
OH! . . . wait do we still have BBC and ITV on the telly?
Aaaaagh. . (sigh) Jackie Bird . . . thought so ach!.. all's well with the world then.
Roll on 2014, can I put my postal vote in now?
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2012-02-15 21:58
As the SNP is "quite far to the left"
They're to the left of you, Mr Goldich, because you're an American. In the same way that everywhere is south of the North Pole.
They're to the left of you, Mr Goldich, because you're an American. In the same way that everywhere is south of the North Pole.
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2012-02-15 22:18
Quoting Jiggsbro:
Jiggs - Please don't judge all Americans by their politicians. I'm a Scot living there and have many friends who are just as left leaning as you!
As the SNP is "quite far to the left"
They're to the left of you, Mr Goldich, because you're an American. In the same way that everywhere is south of the North Pole.
Jiggs - Please don't judge all Americans by their politicians. I'm a Scot living there and have many friends who are just as left leaning as you!
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2012-02-15 22:24
Judge people by the governments they elect. Even the leftmost USAsian administration is bordering on Ghengis Khan extremes.
#
2012-02-15 22:47
Don't get so easily suckered into the 'Left-Right' paradigm... just take a look at Labour/Tory or Republican/Democrat!
...do you honestly see the difference?
The Left/Right fairy-tale is all that it is!
Listen and be educated.... www.youtube.com/.../
This talk is obviously from the States, but I challenge anyone not to be able to see the clear parallels with our movement against the establishment in Scotland with the SNP?
...do you honestly see the difference?
The Left/Right fairy-tale is all that it is!
Listen and be educated.... www.youtube.com/.../
This talk is obviously from the States, but I challenge anyone not to be able to see the clear parallels with our movement against the establishment in Scotland with the SNP?
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2012-02-15 22:18
The only ones ever to be Right of the USAsians was Ghengis Khan and Adolf Hitler. The richest country in the World with people living and dying on the streets from poverty.
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2012-02-16 00:47
The dramatisation on BBC Two tonight of the events that led up to the French revolution were most revealing.
A lot of similarities to what we are seeing today. The rich paying no taxes, the masses paying for the excesses of the rich and starving to death for their efforts and the vested interests preventing a more equitable society from being developed.
A lot of similarities to what we are seeing today. The rich paying no taxes, the masses paying for the excesses of the rich and starving to death for their efforts and the vested interests preventing a more equitable society from being developed.
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2012-02-15 22:03
BBC report on a speech made by Alex Salmond ... bbc.co.uk/.../...
Maybe I'm missing something .. but I see no bias in this BBC article .. have they reformed? have they seen the light? .. or is it a rogue reporter who is about to be fired? .. or maybe they could not figure out how to spin it negatively ..
.... in the report Willie Rennie was only able to spout vacuous tired discredited arguments ..
Maybe I'm missing something .. but I see no bias in this BBC article .. have they reformed? have they seen the light? .. or is it a rogue reporter who is about to be fired? .. or maybe they could not figure out how to spin it negatively ..
.... in the report Willie Rennie was only able to spout vacuous tired discredited arguments ..
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2012-02-15 23:40
The Scottish Sun is claiming the Ian Davidson Numpty band had only 50 submissions .....
That makes it even more difficult to give the bawSAC report any creditability at all, clearly they have just made it all up.
thescottishsun.co.uk/.../...
Clearly one of the 50 public submissions was this:
tarffadvertiser.blogspot.com/.../...
but I don't see it mentioned by the chief bawSAC :-D
That makes it even more difficult to give the bawSAC report any creditability at all, clearly they have just made it all up.
thescottishsun.co.uk/.../...
Clearly one of the 50 public submissions was this:
tarffadvertiser.blogspot.com/.../...
but I don't see it mentioned by the chief bawSAC :-D
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2012-02-15 23:54
They had 47 submissions, plus the Daily Record's list of "questions by its readers".
I haven't checked all the submissions yet, but all the ones I have seen so far are from Labour folk. Strange that.
I haven't checked all the submissions yet, but all the ones I have seen so far are from Labour folk. Strange that.
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2012-02-15 23:59
Do you really think its strange that those with the least understanding happen to be labour? I would have thought that was a given
#
2012-02-16 00:01
Ooh!
It seems that Iain Davidson was going around soliciting submissions to his committee!
"I gather from Ian Davidson MP that you’re looking for questions about the implications of Scottish independence. Here are some of mine:
1.Why is it better to use the money from North Sea oil to benefit well-off people in Scotland than to use it to combat poverty in places like Middlesbrough and Merthyr Tydfil?
2.The actual terms of independence have still to be negotiated. Can the SNP envisage terms so bad that they would reject them?
3.If Scotland breaks away, border controls in what’s left of the UK (England, Wales and Northern Ireland) would remain the responsibility of the Westminster government. What guarantee is there that the UK government would not require people living in Scotland to have a passport in order to travel to England? If you live in Gretna your nearest large supermarket is in Carlisle—the introduction of passport controls on the border would affect people’s everyday lives.
4.Many large private employers in Scotland have their headquarters elsewhere in the UK (eg Tesco). Independence would turn these into foreign companies overnight. Would this benefit those companies’ Scottish employees or the Scottish economy in general? If so, how?
5.Where will people living in the Border TV region receive their television from?
6.Will independence make it easier or harder to develop speedy direct rail links between Scotland and the European mainland via the Channel Tunnel?
It seems that Iain Davidson was going around soliciting submissions to his committee!
"I gather from Ian Davidson MP that you’re looking for questions about the implications of Scottish independence. Here are some of mine:
1.Why is it better to use the money from North Sea oil to benefit well-off people in Scotland than to use it to combat poverty in places like Middlesbrough and Merthyr Tydfil?
2.The actual terms of independence have still to be negotiated. Can the SNP envisage terms so bad that they would reject them?
3.If Scotland breaks away, border controls in what’s left of the UK (England, Wales and Northern Ireland) would remain the responsibility of the Westminster government. What guarantee is there that the UK government would not require people living in Scotland to have a passport in order to travel to England? If you live in Gretna your nearest large supermarket is in Carlisle—the introduction of passport controls on the border would affect people’s everyday lives.
4.Many large private employers in Scotland have their headquarters elsewhere in the UK (eg Tesco). Independence would turn these into foreign companies overnight. Would this benefit those companies’ Scottish employees or the Scottish economy in general? If so, how?
5.Where will people living in the Border TV region receive their television from?
6.Will independence make it easier or harder to develop speedy direct rail links between Scotland and the European mainland via the Channel Tunnel?
#
2012-02-16 00:08
5.Where will people living in the Border TV region receive their television from?
Sky.
HTH
Sky.
HTH
#
2012-02-16 00:05
Nancy Macleod's submission
I thank you for asking our thoughts about going it alone. I do not think we would be strong enough to survive, things are bad at this present time and Scotland is not strong to do this. Thanking you for again giving us a chance to put forward what we think.
Pair lass.
I thank you for asking our thoughts about going it alone. I do not think we would be strong enough to survive, things are bad at this present time and Scotland is not strong to do this. Thanking you for again giving us a chance to put forward what we think.
Pair lass.
#
2012-02-16 00:08
This one is really good!
Andrew H N Gray's contribution
"I am writing to you as a concerned voter living in Scotland. Although my name may not be familiar to you, I am a regular contributor to the debate in the Letters column of “The Scotsman” and, I expect, I am noted for my pro-Union views."
And as you would expect it goes on, and on, and on.
Andrew H N Gray's contribution
"I am writing to you as a concerned voter living in Scotland. Although my name may not be familiar to you, I am a regular contributor to the debate in the Letters column of “The Scotsman” and, I expect, I am noted for my pro-Union views."
And as you would expect it goes on, and on, and on.
#
2012-02-16 00:11
Then there is Ruth Black's submission
"Is it acceptable for a citizen (and resident) of one country to be a serving member of what would effectively be, a foreign service?"
Heard o' the Ghurkhas hen?
"Is it acceptable for a citizen (and resident) of one country to be a serving member of what would effectively be, a foreign service?"
Heard o' the Ghurkhas hen?
#
2012-02-16 00:14
There's one from a Ms J. Lamont:
"Would I be expected to think for myself if Scotland becameindependent separated?"
"Would I be expected to think for myself if Scotland became
#
2012-02-16 00:21
Quoting Jiggsbro:
stop that you.... ha ha
There's one from a Ms J. Lamont:
"Would I be expected to think for myself if Scotland becameindependentseparated?"
stop that you.... ha ha
#
2012-02-16 00:14
It seems that even some of the non anonymous submissions are from the Record. Consider the opening of this from Archie Borland.
"I assume the Records editorial policy is against independence and if this is the case think it would be useful if you made the Scottish people aware as to why the union happened in the first place".
"I assume the Records editorial policy is against independence and if this is the case think it would be useful if you made the Scottish people aware as to why the union happened in the first place".
#
2012-02-16 00:14
I have got no idea what Lord John McFaul was on about on Newsnight. He tried to bring Alex Salmond into the Rangers debacle but what he wanted him to do was gibberish.
#
2012-02-16 00:17
No no Early Ball he wants the government to hold their hand No mistake he said it twice Gordon repeated it
#
2012-02-16 00:47
Quoting mato21:
These ermine boys are devious. Best keep out of it. Football is too tribal. Please one lot alienate the rest.
No no Early Ball he wants the government to hold their hand No mistake he said it twice Gordon repeated it
These ermine boys are devious. Best keep out of it. Football is too tribal. Please one lot alienate the rest.
#
2012-02-16 00:17
By the time Scotland's aff the Rnouk will be greatful to get anyone to sign up for what is no longer big enough to be described as an army even as the UK.
In pure military terms the UK military is, in terms of its manpower, already a defence force.
In pure military terms the UK military is, in terms of its manpower, already a defence force.
#
2012-02-16 00:28
Dear Mr Davidson
I apologise that all the pictures of you that appear on NNS cut off the top of your head, However, I assume that is to remove the photographic evidence of the zip.
I have now read all of the submissions to your Committee, and I have to agree with your assertion that many of those people are confused.
However, since most of those submissions seem to have come from the Daily Record, or those that you personally cajoled into making submissions, that is hardly surprising.
If that is really the best that you can do, then I seriously fear for your survival as a politician in any legislature.
Yours for Scotland
oldnat
I apologise that all the pictures of you that appear on NNS cut off the top of your head, However, I assume that is to remove the photographic evidence of the zip.
I have now read all of the submissions to your Committee, and I have to agree with your assertion that many of those people are confused.
However, since most of those submissions seem to have come from the Daily Record, or those that you personally cajoled into making submissions, that is hardly surprising.
If that is really the best that you can do, then I seriously fear for your survival as a politician in any legislature.
Yours for Scotland
oldnat
#
2012-02-16 00:39
Wee Scamp's overlooked link is worth noting. The US. Scotland's strategic importance has changed. However its current economic importance for the US can't be overlooked.
Who does England have £7 billion aircraft carrier contracts to, £23 billion aircraft contracts, £100 million Trident, Iraq, Afhanistan, and Libya support and contracts?
When Scotland becomes independent can England still pay for these contracts? What then for the cash strapped US? What then for the US in having a European patsy who can't pay their way?
The US can't be overlooked in their potential to interfere in any affairs they feel detrimental to themselves directly or subtly.
An alternative to this scenario is Russia, China and various European nations. They have an opportunity to remove the US's main ally in Europe. An independent England will be worthless to the US. The end of the UK will be a great asset to most other nations.
What will the Americans do? We have seen 2 Americans wade into the argument recently. Don't underestimate their concerns.
Who does England have £7 billion aircraft carrier contracts to, £23 billion aircraft contracts, £100 million Trident, Iraq, Afhanistan, and Libya support and contracts?
When Scotland becomes independent can England still pay for these contracts? What then for the cash strapped US? What then for the US in having a European patsy who can't pay their way?
The US can't be overlooked in their potential to interfere in any affairs they feel detrimental to themselves directly or subtly.
An alternative to this scenario is Russia, China and various European nations. They have an opportunity to remove the US's main ally in Europe. An independent England will be worthless to the US. The end of the UK will be a great asset to most other nations.
What will the Americans do? We have seen 2 Americans wade into the argument recently. Don't underestimate their concerns.
#
2012-02-16 01:10
Very good points .. however, it is not only England or the rump UK that is on the hook for these contracts .. Scotland is also on the hook. It will be expensive, but our share will need to be completed. A liability inherited from the UK. .. After that we will be free to sign new contracts for our own defence.
#
2012-02-16 14:21
proudscot 2012-02-15 23:30
“You really need to keep up with the polls exel, if you're going to quote them. The latest polls show the pro-independence preference is now over 40% and the trend is upwards, as even the BBC's favourite "political expert" Professor Curtice admitted in a recent programme.”
First of all I did not quote a poll; in fact I usually dismiss them as PARTY bull.
I did however refer to Mr. Salmonds remarks and he is still consulting I assume.
“You really need to keep up with the polls exel, if you're going to quote them. The latest polls show the pro-independence preference is now over 40% and the trend is upwards, as even the BBC's favourite "political expert" Professor Curtice admitted in a recent programme.”
First of all I did not quote a poll; in fact I usually dismiss them as PARTY bull.
I did however refer to Mr. Salmonds remarks and he is still consulting I assume.
#
2012-02-29 23:29
......dismissed as a ‘shoddy embarrassment’ and out of date.
That's no way to speak about Mr Davidson. He is a Labour & Unionist Party MP after all and we know how impeccable their behaviour is.....at all times.
VOTE YES
That's no way to speak about Mr Davidson. He is a Labour & Unionist Party MP after all and we know how impeccable their behaviour is.....at all times.
VOTE YES
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