Newsnet Main Articles
Sunday, 02 October 2011 01:37
176 Comments
By G.A.Ponsonby 
Scottish Conservative leader Annabelle Goldie is planning to tell delegates at the party conference in Manchester that Scotland is not subsidised by the rest of the UK.
Ms Goldie who is due to speak today will tell delegates that the ‘subsidy junkie’ claim is a myth and in fact the remainder of the UK would be worse off if Scotland were to gain independence.
The admission by Ms Goldie will cause surprise amongst many in the audience given that official figures show that Scotland receives more per head in government funding than the average English figure.
However that figure does not make clear exactly how much Scotland contributes, and other figures show that Scotland pays in more than she gets back. North Sea revenues alone will generate £13.4 billion for the UK Treasury this year.
Ms Goldie is also expected to warn party colleagues of the consequences for the rest of the UK if Scotland opts out of the Union. She will say: "If one bit of our United Kingdom house gets demolished, instability left sets in, the rest is at risk,"
The admission from the outgoing Tory leader signals a change in strategy from some Scottish Unionists who have consistently argued that Scotland could not afford independence. Days prior to May’s Scottish elections the Labour party claimed that independence would cost Scotland £14 billion every year, or £2600 for every Scot.
The news of Ms Goldie’s intended comments was welcomed by First Minister Alex Salmond who said “Tory attacks on Scotland's finances are wrong, misplaced and misleading". Mr Salmond also used the admission to warn that the Tory tax plans contained in the Scotland Bill were badly formed and would have a "negative impact".
Mr Salmond revealed that he has written to David Cameron insisting that the Scottish Parliament should decide whether to accept the new tax powers or not. Last week Tory Minister David Gauke implied that the UK government would ignore Holyrood if it voted against the Bill.
SNP MSP for Edinburgh Pentlands Gordon MacDonald said:
“Annabelle Goldie’s comments have been a long time coming. The Tory’s have continually trotted out the usual disproved myths and scaremongering for decades, it should be welcomed that they have now finally accepted that Scotland can more than pay her own way financially. It’s just unfortunate that Annabelle has only managed to pluck up the courage as she prepares to stand down as leader.
“Hopefully this is a turning point for the Unionist camp, where they can actually engage in proper debate about our constitutional future, but I won’t hold my breath.
“The Tories along with Labour have stood in constant opposition to the people of Scotland having their say on the future of the nation, perpetrating incorrect information about our finances but the reality is that it is Scotland who his bankrolling the London treasury, not the other way about.”
Comments
#
2011-10-02 02:04
Quote:
At this very moment, Cameron is busy cajoling, pleading with, berating, screaming at and threatening the disloyal Tory Mrs Doubtfire (who's got the hump because she's losing her leader position) demanding she stay on the standard Brit nat message.
Scottish Conservative leader Annabelle Goldie is planning to tell delegates at the party conference in Manchester that Scotland is not subsidised by the rest of the UK.
At this very moment, Cameron is busy cajoling, pleading with, berating, screaming at and threatening the disloyal Tory Mrs Doubtfire (who's got the hump because she's losing her leader position) demanding she stay on the standard Brit nat message.
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2011-10-02 04:39
True, but I think the bigger concern for Cameron is how many other members of the scottish tories are secretly coming to the same conclusion. She seems to be saying remaining in the union is an act of selflessness - not a trait usually associated with tories. Could Goldie be opening the door for others to follow?
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2011-10-02 09:29
It's my opinion that the reason why unionists have been so determined to steer down the path of 'too wee, too poor' is that an admission of anything to the contrary exposes the 'act of selflessness' argument that you describe - when that's out in the open, it'll deal a death blow to the pro-union lobby.
Apart from the simple fact that 'selflessness' is not in any way a reasonable argument for Scotland to remain a part of the UK (how on earth can they spin that? Stay in the union to ultimately benefit London? Where's the union dividend there?), it exposes the unionist parties as bare faced liars who have been wilfully peddling myths and misinformation to the Scottish and English people for decades.
The question then, is not whether we stay in the union or not, but just why should and how can anyone trust an unholy trinity which has been dishonest with everyone from the get-go?
Apart from the simple fact that 'selflessness' is not in any way a reasonable argument for Scotland to remain a part of the UK (how on earth can they spin that? Stay in the union to ultimately benefit London? Where's the union dividend there?), it exposes the unionist parties as bare faced liars who have been wilfully peddling myths and misinformation to the Scottish and English people for decades.
The question then, is not whether we stay in the union or not, but just why should and how can anyone trust an unholy trinity which has been dishonest with everyone from the get-go?
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2011-10-02 02:09
guess what...? this is a major announcement, and as a nationalist and an advocate for Scotland's independence- I feel celestial
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2011-10-02 08:29
Morning Fraser,
Major announcement if you are a Tory or Unionist perhaps, but totally irrelevant to Scotland and the SNP Government right now.
It is amazing that the SNP are out of sight in the race to Independence, and going further ahead by the day.
Post Independence Scotland will have, and need, a strong focused Government...and opposition.
The signs these days are that some seeds are being sown by forward looking people, if they germinate all well and good.
I believe that post Independence, the necessary opposition for any demecracy, looks like it will have to come from within the SNP. That will be a natural evolution over the first 20 - 50 years of Independence.
Major announcement if you are a Tory or Unionist perhaps, but totally irrelevant to Scotland and the SNP Government right now.
It is amazing that the SNP are out of sight in the race to Independence, and going further ahead by the day.
Post Independence Scotland will have, and need, a strong focused Government...and opposition.
The signs these days are that some seeds are being sown by forward looking people, if they germinate all well and good.
I believe that post Independence, the necessary opposition for any demecracy, looks like it will have to come from within the SNP. That will be a natural evolution over the first 20 - 50 years of Independence.
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2011-10-02 11:08
Morning Jim
The major bit, imho, is the admission from Goldie, but i think that both Unionists and SNP supporters might not know this all be it probably quite few. The main focus for the SG now should be to let the Scottish people know that Westminster have squandered the revenues that go to London and that the Scottish Government can manage them a whole lot more effectively, and with the set-up and re focusing of an English parliament will be a whole lot better for England too.
The major bit, imho, is the admission from Goldie, but i think that both Unionists and SNP supporters might not know this all be it probably quite few. The main focus for the SG now should be to let the Scottish people know that Westminster have squandered the revenues that go to London and that the Scottish Government can manage them a whole lot more effectively, and with the set-up and re focusing of an English parliament will be a whole lot better for England too.
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2011-10-02 02:24
Ms Goldie - another convert to the Nationalist cause?
Or has she, as an intelligent and well-informed person, just realised that the dam has burst and there will be a place in an independent Scotland for a moderate right of centre party?
Much as I despise right wing parties, I'd rather someone like Auntie Bella represented it than most of the other so-called candidates I have seen.
Or has she, as an intelligent and well-informed person, just realised that the dam has burst and there will be a place in an independent Scotland for a moderate right of centre party?
Much as I despise right wing parties, I'd rather someone like Auntie Bella represented it than most of the other so-called candidates I have seen.
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2011-10-02 08:39
Edna Caine
I don't think she is a convert. Always beware of greeks and gifts etc.
She is up to something and I haven't figured it out yet.
Of the potential leaders the wane worries me most - I see another Maggie in the making.
I don't think she is a convert. Always beware of greeks and gifts etc.
She is up to something and I haven't figured it out yet.
Of the potential leaders the wane worries me most - I see another Maggie in the making.
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2011-10-02 02:27
"Scotland in Britain is good for Britain"
That's pretty obvious, Miss Short and Curly, but what about the reverse, is Britain good for Scotland?
Or do we have to sacrifice ourselves for the good of others?
That's pretty obvious, Miss Short and Curly, but what about the reverse, is Britain good for Scotland?
Or do we have to sacrifice ourselves for the good of others?
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2011-10-02 02:34
Great comment by Gordon and worth repeating: “Annabelle Goldie’s comments have been a long time coming. The Tory’s have continually trotted out the usual disproved myths and scaremongering for decades, it should be welcomed that they have now finally accepted that Scotland can more than pay her own way financially. It’s just unfortunate that Annabelle has only managed to pluck up the courage as she prepares to stand down as leader."
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2011-10-02 02:42
Well I'm not too surprised!
A sudden revelation of the truth, causing a dramatic change in someone's views is always welcome.
So jump on the SNP bus it passes all the stops in Scotland and will soon be full of new supporters heading for that place called Independence.
Ehrr! Grannies welcome ye cannie shove them off again! Can ye!
A sudden revelation of the truth, causing a dramatic change in someone's views is always welcome.
So jump on the SNP bus it passes all the stops in Scotland and will soon be full of new supporters heading for that place called Independence.
Ehrr! Grannies welcome ye cannie shove them off again! Can ye!
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2011-10-02 02:49
Oh dear! That puts "One Dynamic Nation" in a bit of a pickle then! The arguments of their "grass roots" have just been sprayed with weedkiller.
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2011-10-02 10:21
I think that happened the day they put up their website oldnat. I think their poll showed them the way the wind was blowing. If they couldn't see that then surely all the comments they blocked on their website must surely have opened their wee eyes.
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2011-10-02 03:24
Quote:
This is the big banana question
Mr Salmond revealed that he has written to David Cameron insisting that the Scottish Parliament should decide whether to accept the new tax powers or not.
This is the big banana question
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2011-10-02 04:01
Quoting Gill:
Many take the view that the unionists are more likely to slip on the banana skin, while the independence support will eat the fruit as part of their 'five a day'.
Seriously though it ramps up the pressure a little bit more.
We will get all the bluster from 'call me Dave' at the conference in spite of his Scottish fox already being shot by Auntie Bella.
O/T
I am told a Scottish fox is called 'Tod'
I've never heard this before.
Quote:Mr Salmond revealed that he has written to David Cameron insisting that the Scottish Parliament should decide whether to accept the new tax powers or not.
This is the big banana question
Many take the view that the unionists are more likely to slip on the banana skin, while the independence support will eat the fruit as part of their 'five a day'.
Seriously though it ramps up the pressure a little bit more.
We will get all the bluster from 'call me Dave' at the conference in spite of his Scottish fox already being shot by Auntie Bella.
O/T
I am told a Scottish fox is called 'Tod'
I've never heard this before.
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2011-10-02 05:20
Roald Dahl's book has been translated into Scots as "Sleekit Mr Tod" it's very well done.
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2011-10-03 05:30
Quoting Scrog87:
Thanks, Scrog - that's the nephew's Christmas present taken care of!
Roald Dahl's book has been translated into Scots as "Sleekit Mr Tod" it's very well done.
Thanks, Scrog - that's the nephew's Christmas present taken care of!
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2011-10-02 20:09
SNP should reject the new tax powers, a little bit of civil disobedience to test the water,
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2011-10-02 04:32
O/T I guess I upset someone last night with ma wee bit of frivolity about the numpties at one, two, three, four dynamic nations ( it is a possibility) but here I am again posting off topic a link about the doctors in Bahrain as if to confirm what (hopefully) we all know about it aint what you know.... bla , bla . This is a scandal that needs everyones attention, especially those of us concerned with the independence of an oil producing nation, and sovereignty
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2011-10-02 06:41
Thats just crazy but of course they have oil and the UK will just tolerate this behaviour just like they did with Saddam and Gaddafi.
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2011-10-02 05:18
OT slightly
Whilst Auntie Bella is in Manchester Murdo has been busy at home.
Murdo Fraser mulls new names to lose 'toxic' Tory tag:
scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/.../...
“ Potential names for the Scottish Conservative party include Scotland First, the Scottish Reform Party and even The Caledonians, according to a leaked document.
The paper has been drawn up by the deputy leader Murdo Fraser, who has pledged to "detoxify" the Tory brand north of the border. “
Murdo Fraser also added:
“ Although it is common for centre-right parties throughout the world to have such names, we have to rule out National, Liberal and Democratic as options for part of our party's name."
This is to avoid "muddying the waters" by sounding too similar to its rivals. “
What a shallow washout the Tories are in believing that a change in name will wash away the ‘Toxic Tory’ memories.
They also want a name that does not ‘muddy the waters’ by sounding similar to their rivals. In my book actions speak louder than words when in the last Parliament NuLabour and Tories voted together over 85% of the time… so the water appears very murky anyway.
My suggestion for a name is Scottish Unionists… its abbreviation would be Scunners (The Scottish version). But I feel certain that others on this site could come up with a better name for the Tories.
Whilst Auntie Bella is in Manchester Murdo has been busy at home.
Murdo Fraser mulls new names to lose 'toxic' Tory tag:
scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/.../...
“ Potential names for the Scottish Conservative party include Scotland First, the Scottish Reform Party and even The Caledonians, according to a leaked document.
The paper has been drawn up by the deputy leader Murdo Fraser, who has pledged to "detoxify" the Tory brand north of the border. “
Murdo Fraser also added:
“ Although it is common for centre-right parties throughout the world to have such names, we have to rule out National, Liberal and Democratic as options for part of our party's name."
This is to avoid "muddying the waters" by sounding too similar to its rivals. “
What a shallow washout the Tories are in believing that a change in name will wash away the ‘Toxic Tory’ memories.
They also want a name that does not ‘muddy the waters’ by sounding similar to their rivals. In my book actions speak louder than words when in the last Parliament NuLabour and Tories voted together over 85% of the time… so the water appears very murky anyway.
My suggestion for a name is Scottish Unionists… its abbreviation would be Scunners (The Scottish version). But I feel certain that others on this site could come up with a better name for the Tories.
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2011-10-02 08:07
"The Conservative and Unionist Party"
It would be a good start if Murdo dropped the Unionist bit. Detoxify? Detoryfication might be more appropriate.
It seem to be a significant admission from Annabel, but it just emphasises the dishonesty that went before. Will it actually register with anyone, especially with the British and Scottish media who have also been shown to enjoy a misleading story (= absolute lie)?
It would be a good start if Murdo dropped the Unionist bit. Detoxify? Detoryfication might be more appropriate.
It seem to be a significant admission from Annabel, but it just emphasises the dishonesty that went before. Will it actually register with anyone, especially with the British and Scottish media who have also been shown to enjoy a misleading story (= absolute lie)?
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2011-10-02 10:27
Quote:
Is he REALLY serious about some of these names?
Tory moves to Scotland First. This one must be a joke.
The Caledonians. Now I know he really is taking the p***.
Potential names for the Scottish Conservative party include Scotland First, the Scottish Reform Party and even The Caledonians, according to a leaked document.
Is he REALLY serious about some of these names?
Tory moves to Scotland First. This one must be a joke.
The Caledonians. Now I know he really is taking the p***.
#
2011-10-02 13:35
"The Caledonians. Now I know he really is taking the p***."
That's exactly the thought that went through my head! LMAO!
That's exactly the thought that went through my head! LMAO!
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2011-10-02 11:25
The name that they have given themselves for years is "The Conservative Party", however, everyone calls them "Tories". I don't believe that they'll ever be called anything else no matter how many name changes they try.
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2011-10-02 11:28
Murdo's options are a bit limited.
The "Scottish Unionist Party" already exists and is registered with the Electoral Commission.
There are already three parties with "Progressive" in their name registered with the Electoral Commission, "The Progressive Party", "The Progressive Democrat Party" and the "Progressive Action Party".
As far as the word "Reform" goes there already are six parties registered with the Electoral Commision that use that word in their names, the "Central Party for Reform", the "Democratic Reform Party", the "Money Reform Party", the "Nationwide Reform Party", the "Reform 2000 Party", and the "The Individual Reform Party"
If any of these parties fight elections in Scotland then Murdo might have a job choosing a name which doesn't cause confusion on the ballot paper.
The "Scottish Unionist Party" already exists and is registered with the Electoral Commission.
There are already three parties with "Progressive" in their name registered with the Electoral Commission, "The Progressive Party", "The Progressive Democrat Party" and the "Progressive Action Party".
As far as the word "Reform" goes there already are six parties registered with the Electoral Commision that use that word in their names, the "Central Party for Reform", the "Democratic Reform Party", the "Money Reform Party", the "Nationwide Reform Party", the "Reform 2000 Party", and the "The Individual Reform Party"
If any of these parties fight elections in Scotland then Murdo might have a job choosing a name which doesn't cause confusion on the ballot paper.
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2011-10-02 13:39
"Progressive Action Party" sounds like a good one to use for an acronym for the Tories since they are a right bunch of t*ts!
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2011-10-02 07:51
OT
Appears that a vote will be held in Westmidden, before Xmas, on wether to hold a referendum on the EU.
Appears that a vote will be held in Westmidden, before Xmas, on wether to hold a referendum on the EU.
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2011-10-02 12:43
If there is a vote on continuing the UK's membership of the EU, does this not play really well with us in relation to the whole EU/EFTA/EEA in/out debate?
Providing of course that the majority south of the border vote with their EU cynic glasses on
It would simplify the referendum debate regarding Scotland's EU position by to some extent parking it until later
We could then put it to the people following the glorious day
Providing of course that the majority south of the border vote with their EU cynic glasses on
It would simplify the referendum debate regarding Scotland's EU position by to some extent parking it until later
We could then put it to the people following the glorious day
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2011-10-02 08:31
Posh Dave & Aunty Bella, striking family resemblance there!
However, the good ship Great Britain is going down at the stern while the Scottish Tories are down in the saloon arguing the toss over who is cox on the Scottish lifeboat. Murdo, sensibly, admitting that all is lost, scans the political horizon and looks to a time when an independant Scotland just might need a Tory party!
However, the good ship Great Britain is going down at the stern while the Scottish Tories are down in the saloon arguing the toss over who is cox on the Scottish lifeboat. Murdo, sensibly, admitting that all is lost, scans the political horizon and looks to a time when an independant Scotland just might need a Tory party!
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2011-10-02 08:37
And maybe Annabel may show contrition and apologise along with Labour for classifying the McCrone report in the 70's and for lying to th people of Scotland, all this time.
Maybe a Mea Culpa from the MSM and the BBC might also follow suit or maybe in well wor style, they simply won't report any of Goldie's speach ?.
Sad that it took her departure to signal an outburst of truth. Nothing of the like came from Gray, only more vitriol, as if we needed that ?.
Her speach might come as a surprise to the English but not increasingly to Scots who at least have Newsnet to look too to get a semblence of truth.
The paradox is after her speach, England tightens her grip over Scotland. Might call for a change in the tactics of the SNP who by being polite to the establishment are achieving, absolutely nothing !.
Maybe a Mea Culpa from the MSM and the BBC might also follow suit or maybe in well wor style, they simply won't report any of Goldie's speach ?.
Sad that it took her departure to signal an outburst of truth. Nothing of the like came from Gray, only more vitriol, as if we needed that ?.
Her speach might come as a surprise to the English but not increasingly to Scots who at least have Newsnet to look too to get a semblence of truth.
The paradox is after her speach, England tightens her grip over Scotland. Might call for a change in the tactics of the SNP who by being polite to the establishment are achieving, absolutely nothing !.
#
2011-10-02 08:54
Annabelle Goldie is very typical of her era of politics. Everything including the truth for her party. For years she has played the perfect party politician doing exactly as she was told by the hierarchy in London. Most likely believing absolutely that whatever she said or did was indeed for the good of the people as she saw it.
I have always found it sad that politicians place a party before the needs of the people or indeed their own conscience. But much like the FM I have some small regard for Auntie Bella. I'm sure it will still be clothed in party faithful speak, but if she utters even half of whats being claimed in the story it'll make a hell of a media bombshell.
M
I have always found it sad that politicians place a party before the needs of the people or indeed their own conscience. But much like the FM I have some small regard for Auntie Bella. I'm sure it will still be clothed in party faithful speak, but if she utters even half of whats being claimed in the story it'll make a hell of a media bombshell.
M
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2011-10-02 10:34
I must admit that the whole time I have watched FMQ's there has been a small part of me that actually feels respect for Auntie Bella. She has been the only leader who can come close to pulling A.S. up on something, never achieves it though. The interchanges between her and A.S. are usually quite good and more often than not light hearted and humorous, unlike the weekly destruction of Elmer by A.S.
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2011-10-02 21:15
Ab1320
You are getting closer and closer to normal - you may even beome the the voice of reason on newsnet!!!
You are getting closer and closer to normal - you may even beome the the voice of reason on newsnet!!!
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2011-10-02 12:08
Absolutely! Does anyone think the Southern Tories are going to take this lying down? This could create one hell of a row. Lets hope so!
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2011-10-02 08:59
Sub jetty scheme '£92m over budget'
A major defence project has come under fire from Liam Fox for running late and being over budget.
The Defence Secretary named the Valiant Jetty programme as the first item on a "project of concern" list.
The submarine jetty on the Clyde was reviewed during the second meeting of the Major Projects Board (MPRB), which aims to hold the top 50 equipment projects to account.
Defence officials said the Valiant Jetty project, awarded to Amec plc in 2003, was nearly four years late and was estimated to be running £92 million over budget. What is the total cost?
The Falcon communications system and the Watchkeeper surveillance system were also reviewed during the meeting.
Dr Fox, who set up the MPRB in June, said: "It is clear that the additional rigour and scrutiny being applied through the Major Projects Review Board is having a beneficial effect on the behaviours of our suppliers."
"I am pleased that both Falcon and Watchkeeper have made progress since the board's first meeting. However, I am not satisfied with the progress of the Valiant Jetty Project. It is almost four years late and over budget.
"We must learn from the mistakes of the past and move away from the culture of optimism. Too frequently projects ran over-budget and over-time, without any meaningful remedial action. Real budgetary discipline can only be achieved through the effective real-time control of project budgets. Our Armed Forces and our country simply cannot afford anything less."
The Valiant Jetty is to serve the new Astute class submarine at the Royal Navy's Clyde base. It is to deliver base porting facilities for the UK submarine fleet for the next 50 years.
According to its contract, the project should have completed in October 2008. Amec's earliest estimate of completion is now nearly four years after that, and its latest cost estimate is almost 70% more than the contractual maximum price of £134 million, defence officials said.
A major defence project has come under fire from Liam Fox for running late and being over budget.
The Defence Secretary named the Valiant Jetty programme as the first item on a "project of concern" list.
The submarine jetty on the Clyde was reviewed during the second meeting of the Major Projects Board (MPRB), which aims to hold the top 50 equipment projects to account.
Defence officials said the Valiant Jetty project, awarded to Amec plc in 2003, was nearly four years late and was estimated to be running £92 million over budget. What is the total cost?
The Falcon communications system and the Watchkeeper surveillance system were also reviewed during the meeting.
Dr Fox, who set up the MPRB in June, said: "It is clear that the additional rigour and scrutiny being applied through the Major Projects Review Board is having a beneficial effect on the behaviours of our suppliers."
"I am pleased that both Falcon and Watchkeeper have made progress since the board's first meeting. However, I am not satisfied with the progress of the Valiant Jetty Project. It is almost four years late and over budget.
"We must learn from the mistakes of the past and move away from the culture of optimism. Too frequently projects ran over-budget and over-time, without any meaningful remedial action. Real budgetary discipline can only be achieved through the effective real-time control of project budgets. Our Armed Forces and our country simply cannot afford anything less."
The Valiant Jetty is to serve the new Astute class submarine at the Royal Navy's Clyde base. It is to deliver base porting facilities for the UK submarine fleet for the next 50 years.
According to its contract, the project should have completed in October 2008. Amec's earliest estimate of completion is now nearly four years after that, and its latest cost estimate is almost 70% more than the contractual maximum price of £134 million, defence officials said.
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2011-10-02 11:18
Just thinking outside the box,AGAIN! :D
I know,I know.
I'm going for a lie down in the DARKENED ROOM! after this. :D
If the new sub jetty, the Valiant Jetty programme, has helped push the Defence budget over because it is, itself, £94 million over budget, then can you imagine the outcry when we gain Independence and they have to start from scratch building their new sub jetty outside the Houses of Parliament. :D
Perhaps if their M.P.'s are not doing too much they could help with the building. That would keep their costs down. :D
I know,I know.
I'm going for a lie down in the DARKENED ROOM! after this. :D
If the new sub jetty, the Valiant Jetty programme, has helped push the Defence budget over because it is, itself, £94 million over budget, then can you imagine the outcry when we gain Independence and they have to start from scratch building their new sub jetty outside the Houses of Parliament. :D
Perhaps if their M.P.'s are not doing too much they could help with the building. That would keep their costs down. :D
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2011-10-02 14:49
The Victorians already did that!
Thanks to Mr Bazalgette, they have The Embankment!!
Thanks to Mr Bazalgette, they have The Embankment!!
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2011-10-02 19:16
Och, they didnae need a new Jetty. There's a rare sandbank near Skye that'll do just fine - free parking too.
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2011-10-02 08:59
Annabelle Goldie is correct. The rump UK is going to be far worse off financially without Scottish input.
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2011-10-02 09:17
Well said Macart but will the media spin the story to suit Westminster.
It is disgraceful that the Scottish unionists and the Scottish MSM have betrayed the Scottish people for so long for their own selfish needs. Spread the word, independence for Scotland is the only way forward.
It is disgraceful that the Scottish unionists and the Scottish MSM have betrayed the Scottish people for so long for their own selfish needs. Spread the word, independence for Scotland is the only way forward.
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2011-10-02 09:35
Let's put the idea of Scottish Independence another way, and it's a method I use to put forward my personal views. I don't think of Scottish Independence in an isolationist way.
Let me try to articulate my thoughts and I apologise if I appear to ramble.
The relationships between the constituent nations of the UK require a reinvention.
Any new relationship, from Scotland's perspective will encompass the following quote "‘subsidy junkie’ claim is a myth and in fact the remainder of the UK would be worse off if Scotland were to gain independence"....this is a fact and a fact that the Conservatives are acknowledging. So where does acknowledgement of this potentially lead the Conservatives?
I think a "negotiated settlement" with David Cameron approaching from a position of, if not strength, then proactiveness.
Cameron knows that the UK requires reinvention. I suspect his solution will be a loose relationship with Defense shared, perhaps an agreement of Wealth Sharing until England's economy is restructured to see it on a journey without Scotland's natural resources freely available on tap. Far fetched? You forget Cameron's no fool, if the people on this blog can see which way the wind is blowing then so can Cameron. But any changes will require the safety net of "Time"....time for Cameron to put in place measures designed to safeguard the future of England, and his own parties fortunes. He's a pragmatist.
The Conservatives can survive a change in the constitutional makeup of the British Isles. They will gain strength in England from this. Contrast that with Labour, who quite simply require Scotland in order to exist as a UK party. They are the real party of the Union. So you won't see much in the way of creative thinking from them.
So in short, here's my solution from a Conservative viewpoint.
Acknowledge that change is inevitable.
Sell that to the public in a positive fashion, with a very big nod to English sensitivities.
Frame your vision of the future relationship in terms of economic, political and social terms.
Offer negotiations.
Exclude the Labour Party.
Bingo! An Independent Scotland. Ditto England and a guaranteed Conservative majority in Future England Parliament.
Goldie is just setting the pace.
[NNS Mod Team]
[Hi WM. Next time you think this good, why don't you send it to the Editors Team, using the Contact Us/Submit an article facility on the bar above?]
Let me try to articulate my thoughts and I apologise if I appear to ramble.
The relationships between the constituent nations of the UK require a reinvention.
Any new relationship, from Scotland's perspective will encompass the following quote "‘subsidy junkie’ claim is a myth and in fact the remainder of the UK would be worse off if Scotland were to gain independence"....this is a fact and a fact that the Conservatives are acknowledging. So where does acknowledgement of this potentially lead the Conservatives?
I think a "negotiated settlement" with David Cameron approaching from a position of, if not strength, then proactiveness.
Cameron knows that the UK requires reinvention. I suspect his solution will be a loose relationship with Defense shared, perhaps an agreement of Wealth Sharing until England's economy is restructured to see it on a journey without Scotland's natural resources freely available on tap. Far fetched? You forget Cameron's no fool, if the people on this blog can see which way the wind is blowing then so can Cameron. But any changes will require the safety net of "Time"....time for Cameron to put in place measures designed to safeguard the future of England, and his own parties fortunes. He's a pragmatist.
The Conservatives can survive a change in the constitutional makeup of the British Isles. They will gain strength in England from this. Contrast that with Labour, who quite simply require Scotland in order to exist as a UK party. They are the real party of the Union. So you won't see much in the way of creative thinking from them.
So in short, here's my solution from a Conservative viewpoint.
Acknowledge that change is inevitable.
Sell that to the public in a positive fashion, with a very big nod to English sensitivities.
Frame your vision of the future relationship in terms of economic, political and social terms.
Offer negotiations.
Exclude the Labour Party.
Bingo! An Independent Scotland. Ditto England and a guaranteed Conservative majority in Future England Parliament.
Goldie is just setting the pace.
[NNS Mod Team]
[Hi WM. Next time you think this good, why don't you send it to the Editors Team, using the Contact Us/Submit an article facility on the bar above?]
#
2011-10-02 09:55
Wave Machine, I agree with most of your contentions, however if you were to exclude the Labour party i feel that would give them the green light to orchestrate "non political" activity, i.e. violence. Just look at the quality of the core labour support in Scotland, they would not need too much in the way of prodding from their political masters to turn to unlawful activities.
I am cock-a-hoop at the political tide we have all managed to create through political means, AG is at last being pragmatic, and I hope as you say David Cameron follows her down this road, because believe it or not England and Scotland do need each other in many ways. But by my reckoning the Treaty of Union is 50 years past its sell by date. So we have played the Unionists in to a corner and we are now more likely to see success then ever before,
Steady as she goes guys!
I am cock-a-hoop at the political tide we have all managed to create through political means, AG is at last being pragmatic, and I hope as you say David Cameron follows her down this road, because believe it or not England and Scotland do need each other in many ways. But by my reckoning the Treaty of Union is 50 years past its sell by date. So we have played the Unionists in to a corner and we are now more likely to see success then ever before,
Steady as she goes guys!
#
2011-10-02 10:38
Don't worry about rambling WM. I usually ramble. If you like I can send you a membership form for the NNS Rambling nutters club. Apparently I'm the club secretary, though no one told me. :D
[NNS Mod Team]
[Didn't we? Sorry, our fault. Very busy lately]
[NNS Mod Team]
[Didn't we? Sorry, our fault. Very busy lately]
#
2011-10-02 10:46
I'm thinking about following Labour on this one.
Would the back of a fag packet do? :D
Would the back of a fag packet do? :D
#
2011-10-02 16:47
And did you buy the fag packet in a supermarket?
According to one of the Sunday papers Tesco et al may stop selling cigarettes in their bigger shops to get out of paying the new levy that Mr Swinney has slapped on them.
According to one of the Sunday papers Tesco et al may stop selling cigarettes in their bigger shops to get out of paying the new levy that Mr Swinney has slapped on them.
#
2011-10-02 13:54
Does this mean I can get let out my cupboard 'Smokie' - I promise not to bite any more Unionist legs ....... honest ... just to ramble on .... and on ..... and on ...
#
2011-10-02 14:01
I am sure we would not hold it against you if you continued with biting, or even chewing, the odd unionist leg, or arm or.... :D
With regards the NNS Rambling Nutters Club, consider your self a fully signed up member.:D
With regards the NNS Rambling Nutters Club, consider your self a fully signed up member.:D
#
2011-10-02 10:42
Wave Machine - Sounds like a very plausible scenario. When you look at a number of the press releases from the party leaders and prominent politicians recently there appears to be a not so subtle shift towards Scotland's ability to look after itself.
But after years of unionist party faithful peddling lies it will take some time for the hierarchies to sell a new story to their rank and file as well as their faithful electorate.
Still, sell it they must! There is just far too much information out there readily available for the people to remain in the dark forever.
M
But after years of unionist party faithful peddling lies it will take some time for the hierarchies to sell a new story to their rank and file as well as their faithful electorate.
Still, sell it they must! There is just far too much information out there readily available for the people to remain in the dark forever.
M
#
2011-10-02 13:50
I've been disappointed for a while now with, what appeared to me to be, a lowering of the standard of comment on Newsnet. Comments on this article, some of which seem determined to look a gift horse in the mouth (assuming the cuddy is duly delivered) were confirming my recent opinion and then I came across this little bit of gold from Wave Machine above.
In 1974 the SNP's 'It's Scotland's Oil' no doubt contributed to the great successes of that year (still to be repeated in UK terms) but it was obvious, at the time, that all that oil was the single most important reason why independence would not be coming our way anytime soon if the UK parliament had anything to do with it.
It has been just as obvious for some time now that we need to offer English politicians a way out of the oil/power dilemma. We can offer solutions to both with FFA - financial help with loans from from an oil fund etc and, in power terms, they could continue to delude themselves a while longer regarding the UK's world influence. With independence we could still offer the financial help - And it is obvious from comments on newspaper sites down south that many ordinary people are fed up with their politicians strutting about the world stage instead of running their own country with some degree of competence - so who knows?
My main point of disagreement with WM -
We can but hope that the SNP saw this coming a while ago and have been planning a way of engaging with the leaders of ALL the British parties. Not only would it be undemocratic and patronising but, given the extreme dislike of many of the Scottish electorate for anything to do with the Tories, it would be death to exclude the Labour Party - they should be left, if they feel so badly about it, to exclude themselves.
One further point. It could be that some behind the scenes stuff is already on the go and oor Annabel has been given the role of starting the softening up process (she's on the way out so it doesn't matter if it goes pear shaped) and if the Tories see defeat looming at the next UK election it will be in their interests to do something about the 'Scottish Question' sooner rather than later. It just keeps getting better.
In 1974 the SNP's 'It's Scotland's Oil' no doubt contributed to the great successes of that year (still to be repeated in UK terms) but it was obvious, at the time, that all that oil was the single most important reason why independence would not be coming our way anytime soon if the UK parliament had anything to do with it.
It has been just as obvious for some time now that we need to offer English politicians a way out of the oil/power dilemma. We can offer solutions to both with FFA - financial help with loans from from an oil fund etc and, in power terms, they could continue to delude themselves a while longer regarding the UK's world influence. With independence we could still offer the financial help - And it is obvious from comments on newspaper sites down south that many ordinary people are fed up with their politicians strutting about the world stage instead of running their own country with some degree of competence - so who knows?
My main point of disagreement with WM -
We can but hope that the SNP saw this coming a while ago and have been planning a way of engaging with the leaders of ALL the British parties. Not only would it be undemocratic and patronising but, given the extreme dislike of many of the Scottish electorate for anything to do with the Tories, it would be death to exclude the Labour Party - they should be left, if they feel so badly about it, to exclude themselves.
One further point. It could be that some behind the scenes stuff is already on the go and oor Annabel has been given the role of starting the softening up process (she's on the way out so it doesn't matter if it goes pear shaped) and if the Tories see defeat looming at the next UK election it will be in their interests to do something about the 'Scottish Question' sooner rather than later. It just keeps getting better.
#
2011-10-02 16:01
Yes Wave Machine, you could be a contender for leading the Unionist debate. No one want's it, it's a rotten job, but someone has to do it.
Cameron may be a pragmatist, but he's not completely daft. Such arrangements as you suggest would have to made a million miles from the general public on both sides of the border.
"Time" now, is the one thing the Union doesn't have. He's certainly pragmatic enough to know that. "Time" post Independence may be what the Unionists hope for, but they have nothing to buy that time with.
I believe the price may be beyond the Unionists anyway......looks like a Union begging bowl job will have to be a factor in negotiations.
ps The Unionist Leader job rate is probably going to be rubbish, certainly not what you would be worth anyway.
Cameron may be a pragmatist, but he's not completely daft. Such arrangements as you suggest would have to made a million miles from the general public on both sides of the border.
"Time" now, is the one thing the Union doesn't have. He's certainly pragmatic enough to know that. "Time" post Independence may be what the Unionists hope for, but they have nothing to buy that time with.
I believe the price may be beyond the Unionists anyway......looks like a Union begging bowl job will have to be a factor in negotiations.
ps The Unionist Leader job rate is probably going to be rubbish, certainly not what you would be worth anyway.
#
2011-10-02 10:35
Going through the SNP Conference Agenda, I noticed there is a Fringe meeting on "Devolved Broadcasting" the BBC are notable by their lack of participation.
#
2011-10-02 09:48
Wave Machine. Common Sense approach. Not sure that it has been lost on Mr. Salmond too. Argue that the Union is bust and no longer fit for purpose. Offer to tear up the Act of Union. Withdraw SNP MP's from Westminster as an ineffective rump anyway.
Gift Westminster entirely to the Conservatives so along as we are not involved in throwing away bucket loads of money on useless wars/ships train sets to Birmingham etc.
I can see Cameron relishing the prospect of not having to 'worry' about Scotland and then he afterwards, could truly 'Respect' Scotland as he would be viewing a 'different' country, from afar !.
Gift Westminster entirely to the Conservatives so along as we are not involved in throwing away bucket loads of money on useless wars/ships train sets to Birmingham etc.
I can see Cameron relishing the prospect of not having to 'worry' about Scotland and then he afterwards, could truly 'Respect' Scotland as he would be viewing a 'different' country, from afar !.
#
2011-10-02 10:09
OT
Oor Wullie is at it again.
.../?mode=article&site=hs&id=N0696331317468947576A
Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Willie Rennie says his party is at the 'cutting edge' of debate
Will somebody please remind me… who the bl**dy hell are the Scottish Liberal Democrats?
Oor Wullie is at it again.
.../?mode=article&site=hs&id=N0696331317468947576A
Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Willie Rennie says his party is at the 'cutting edge' of debate
Will somebody please remind me… who the bl**dy hell are the Scottish Liberal Democrats?
#
2011-10-02 10:22
He accuses the SNP of centralising power... coming from a dependency party, who wish power to be centralised to London eh!
Hackney for the Lib Dums!
Hackney for the Lib Dums!
#
2011-10-02 10:45
It is not just who are the Lib/Dems Roll On. I want to know what debate they are at the cutting edge of.
Is it the debate over Corn Flakes or Frosties for breakfast?
Is it the debate over toast or croissant?
Is perhaps the debate over tea or coffee?
These are the sort of debates I can see them at the cutting edge of. Anything on a more serious or even intellectual matter then no. He has to be practising a joke or three for his telephone box conference.
Is it the debate over Corn Flakes or Frosties for breakfast?
Is it the debate over toast or croissant?
Is perhaps the debate over tea or coffee?
These are the sort of debates I can see them at the cutting edge of. Anything on a more serious or even intellectual matter then no. He has to be practising a joke or three for his telephone box conference.
#
2011-10-02 10:33
Willie Rennie welcomed Mike Dillon back through the revolving door of the Paisley Lib-Dem mob. The SNP breathed a sigh of relief at the departure of this waste of space.No loss was echoed.
Where can I get the tory conference on TV today. I would like to see the result of Mrs Doubtfire's speech.
Where can I get the tory conference on TV today. I would like to see the result of Mrs Doubtfire's speech.
#
2011-10-02 10:33
When does Annabelle speak? I dont think she has gone through some kind of miraculous conversion to the independence cause.Nor do I think she is repositioning for post independence.She is changing tacticNothing more.She and Dave have concluded that "too wee,too poor" doesnt work anymore.Theyre going to take a different approach which will be along the lines of "stronger together...we all need each other....so much in common....the union was there when Scotland needed it dont desert it now etc".It will be interesting to see how labour and the libs react.And,of course,the beeb.Will they adopt the new approach too ?
#
2011-10-02 10:39
A comment from someone called Pomelo over on the Scotsman made me laugh, he asked if Annabel had gone 'native'?
#
2011-10-02 10:39
So Scots have been continually lied to by the Scottish Tories about being 'subsidy junkies'. Lied to about being 'too small', 'too stupid' and 'too poor'. Lied to that we wouldn't survive without England.
Lies, lies, lies, lies that is all the Tories have ever done.
Lies, lies, lies, lies that is all the Tories have ever done.
#
2011-10-02 10:54
Oh be fair Mac. It's not all lies. A.G. has seen the light. And the light says:
Independence GOOD
Union BAD
Boy that light has had a long and hard fight through the cloud of mystery that is Scottish Tory policy.:D
Independence GOOD
Union BAD
Boy that light has had a long and hard fight through the cloud of mystery that is Scottish Tory policy.:D
#
2011-10-02 10:54
Annabelle Goldie once said that she didn't get into politics to "break up Britain" so i guess you could say that she got into politics to keep the Scottish people subservient and subjugated to Westminster rule!
#
2011-10-02 10:54
OT
Just had a glance at Labour Hame and noticed the following comment.
Can anybody throw any light on this?
labourhame.com/.../...
“ The “humourless nats” are having the last laugh on the attempted attack on the SNP as a supposedly homophobic party-the late Edwin Morgan (for a time my English tutor at Glasgow University) and who unsurprisingly acknowledged openly that he was gay, has left £1 million in his will to the SNP. “
I know that he died in 2010 but I had no idea he had left money to the SNP in his will.
Just had a glance at Labour Hame and noticed the following comment.
Can anybody throw any light on this?
labourhame.com/.../...
“ The “humourless nats” are having the last laugh on the attempted attack on the SNP as a supposedly homophobic party-the late Edwin Morgan (for a time my English tutor at Glasgow University) and who unsurprisingly acknowledged openly that he was gay, has left £1 million in his will to the SNP. “
I know that he died in 2010 but I had no idea he had left money to the SNP in his will.
#
2011-10-02 10:58
No need… have found a reference… Googled it…. of all places in the Daily Retard:
dailyrecord.co.uk/.../...
dailyrecord.co.uk/.../...
#
2011-10-02 13:59
The bequest was announced by his family and graciously acknowledged by the SNP at the time of Muir's funeral .... Labour Hame bring you yet another Homer Simpson moment - Doh!.
#
2011-10-02 11:03
I think I have lost the plot here. Annabelle says Scotland is financially viable, Willie Rennie says he believes in Home Rule, Ian Gray believes in Home Rule. Cameron says Scotland would be STUPID to go it alone and Danny Alexander, Michale Moore and Murphy say we are to poor without England to bank roll us. Looks like there is no cohesion to the Unionist plan for the retention of their last colony.
#
2011-10-02 11:14
Quote:
In other words Annabel thinks that Scotland should not be independent because that would be bad for England. There is no thought of what would be best for Scotland.
If you're loyal to Britain then your primary loyalty must always be to England. Annabel has just demonstrated that fact again.
She will say: "If one bit of our United Kingdom house gets demolished, instability left sets in, the rest is at risk"If that is true then it shows where Annabel Goldie's loyalty really lies. She doesn't want Scotland to leave the Union because it would have an adverse affect on England. (If Scotland leaves then, "the rest", of the UK is 92% English in population terms.)
In other words Annabel thinks that Scotland should not be independent because that would be bad for England. There is no thought of what would be best for Scotland.
If you're loyal to Britain then your primary loyalty must always be to England. Annabel has just demonstrated that fact again.
#
2011-10-02 11:24
i don't think Bella even got onto the main platform last time and she was the leader then. Now 'outgoing' I fully expect her to expound on her earth-shattering conversion from the equipment tent behind the marquee that's behind the conference hall:)
#
2011-10-02 11:25
The londonites are all over the place.I cant remember ever looking forward to a speech at a tory party conference.And Murdo wants to change the name.Libdems are having a commission into federalism.It all makes labour seem very dull indeed.We must remember that labour are the ones with most to lose in a Westminster context.
#
2011-10-02 11:35
So let me get this straight Annabel...
Westminster has been calling me a subsidy junkie for decades while helping itself to my bank account. You now wish me to agree for the latter to continue without even an apology?
Aye right.
Westminster has been calling me a subsidy junkie for decades while helping itself to my bank account. You now wish me to agree for the latter to continue without even an apology?
Aye right.
#
2011-10-02 11:56
Surprise, surprise, the BBC news website doesn't mention any thing about this part of her speech, instead saying that AG will challenge AS to name the date for the referendum instead.
bbc.co.uk/.../...
bbc.co.uk/.../...
#
2011-10-02 12:00
My goodness. I just read the BBC account of the speech and NOTHING was said about this in their report. It was all just attacks on Salmond.
We seriously need to get rid of BBC Scotland and replace it with an unbiased service.
We seriously need to get rid of BBC Scotland and replace it with an unbiased service.
#
2011-10-02 12:08
May I ask that someone with the ability to record the speech and put it on a URL (YouTube etc) also edits the speech before uploading just giving the words that are in the article ( not the 30 minutes before and after if you see what I mean) so that everyone can fire it off on Facebook, Twitter or any other carrier pidgeon that they can find.
I'm ready with my catchers mitt.
If she does say these "golden" words then that is a message that we'll want to put out big style both north and south of the border.
We already know that the BBC, MSM and the rubbish press will ignore it because that's not the Scotland that they want people to see.
I think I'm falling in love with Auntie Annabelle. haha
I'm ready with my catchers mitt.
If she does say these "golden" words then that is a message that we'll want to put out big style both north and south of the border.
We already know that the BBC, MSM and the rubbish press will ignore it because that's not the Scotland that they want people to see.
I think I'm falling in love with Auntie Annabelle. haha
#
2011-10-02 15:14
Hi SG
Try Moridura - The Ancient Order
TAofMoridura's Channel in youtube. youtube.com/.../...
You can make arrangements to receive a weekly digest and it rarely, if ever, misses a thing.
Try Moridura - The Ancient Order
TAofMoridura's Channel in youtube. youtube.com/.../...
You can make arrangements to receive a weekly digest and it rarely, if ever, misses a thing.
#
2011-10-02 12:22
I don't trust Annabel Goldie as she was always at the front of the queue with attempted smears against the Scottish Government.
If she is to make this announcement I suspect it will be an entirely cynical and self serving attempt to turn Scots overnight from grasping subsidy junkies to the status of affluent, oil- soaked isolationists, selfishly ready to leave the rest of the UK high and dry at a time of recession.
A version of this argument actually worked for them before if you recall.
So this is no reality check from Goldie more a re visit to the theme that Scots would be selfish and stupid not to share their wealth with the rest of the UK.
I actually worry that because this deceitful scenario of "it's too big a burden for you people, it's running out anyway, you don't have the expertise, let us take it off your hands and share it out for the good of us all" worked before, people might actually fall for it again.
This time our water, renewable energy and the rest will also need to be "looked after and shared" by our bigger partner and yes, you've guessed, it will all be because we're stronger together.
If she is to make this announcement I suspect it will be an entirely cynical and self serving attempt to turn Scots overnight from grasping subsidy junkies to the status of affluent, oil- soaked isolationists, selfishly ready to leave the rest of the UK high and dry at a time of recession.
A version of this argument actually worked for them before if you recall.
So this is no reality check from Goldie more a re visit to the theme that Scots would be selfish and stupid not to share their wealth with the rest of the UK.
I actually worry that because this deceitful scenario of "it's too big a burden for you people, it's running out anyway, you don't have the expertise, let us take it off your hands and share it out for the good of us all" worked before, people might actually fall for it again.
This time our water, renewable energy and the rest will also need to be "looked after and shared" by our bigger partner and yes, you've guessed, it will all be because we're stronger together.
#
2011-10-02 12:45
Agree completely. I think it probably due to the fact that many English citizens and politicians feel they are subsidising Scotland to billions of pounds per year and therefore would be quite happy to see the back of us.
This is just a ploy to unite the conservative party on there assault of Scottish nationalism. They created a monster with the subsidy lies and now they have to backpeddle. Nothing more, nothing less, although I do welcome this change of direction as I believe its always been the main hindrance to independence.
This is just a ploy to unite the conservative party on there assault of Scottish nationalism. They created a monster with the subsidy lies and now they have to backpeddle. Nothing more, nothing less, although I do welcome this change of direction as I believe its always been the main hindrance to independence.
#
2011-10-02 13:42
I don't know what medication she is on but by heck it is DEFINITELY the WRONG dose! :D
#
2011-10-02 13:52
lol living proof, thanks for that Roll On.
Harperson's already shaky judgement never looked so ropey.....
Harperson's already shaky judgement never looked so ropey.....
#
2011-10-02 13:53
GrassyKnollingt on:
I agree. A leopard has more chances of changing its spots than Goldie has of changing her political beliefs.
Don’t be fooled. Without the cataclysmic success of the SNP none of the upheaval currently being experienced by the other three parties would have occurred. Political (Union) life would have continued as before.
I agree. A leopard has more chances of changing its spots than Goldie has of changing her political beliefs.
Don’t be fooled. Without the cataclysmic success of the SNP none of the upheaval currently being experienced by the other three parties would have occurred. Political (Union) life would have continued as before.
#
2011-10-02 16:59
well said GK. This gambit is taken from what I would call the BrianWilson playbook for defending the union - independence is a selfish aspiration and Scots are not selfish!!!
#
2011-10-02 12:35
Does anyone know what period of notice the Scots Government will have to give for the referendum? Do we have to set the date in the referendum bill?
#
2011-10-02 13:16
I have no idea, but the shorter the better.:D
The less time the unionists have to get organised, if that is at all possible, the better.
At the end of the day, short or long notice, it will make no difference to A.S. He'll still wipe the floor with them all. I do admit though that the shortest possible notice the better suits me. I can't get this vision out of my head of a bunch of headless chickens running around crying "We're doomed, all doomed."
Sorry Private Fraser, I just had to paraphrase you're shouts from Dad's Army. :D
The less time the unionists have to get organised, if that is at all possible, the better.
At the end of the day, short or long notice, it will make no difference to A.S. He'll still wipe the floor with them all. I do admit though that the shortest possible notice the better suits me. I can't get this vision out of my head of a bunch of headless chickens running around crying "We're doomed, all doomed."
Sorry Private Fraser, I just had to paraphrase you're shouts from Dad's Army. :D
#
2011-10-02 12:48
Could I suggest that the new conservative party in Scotland adopt the name "The Daleerit Jauries"
A free translation being---the deluded, or glaeket ones, who have lost their marbles.
This referring of course, to those who would give any support or credence to this bunch of hypocrites
A free translation being---the deluded, or glaeket ones, who have lost their marbles.
This referring of course, to those who would give any support or credence to this bunch of hypocrites
#
2011-10-02 12:55
Quote:
As always, it is Democracy that terrifies them.
Ms Goldie is also expected to warn party colleagues of the consequences for the rest of the UK if Scotland opts out of the Union. She will say: "If one bit of our United Kingdom house gets demolished, instability left sets in, the rest is at risk,"
As always, it is Democracy that terrifies them.
#
2011-10-02 13:00
According to the Conservative Party website "find a speech" search facility, Annabel Goldie has made only 1 speech since she became leader of the Scottish Conservatives in 2005.
conservatives.com/.../...
Now, either she's been very lazy indeed, or they don't like her speeches much. Or both.
conservatives.com/.../...
Now, either she's been very lazy indeed, or they don't like her speeches much. Or both.
#
2011-10-02 13:32
I saw these headlines over on the BBC site.
bbc.co.uk/.../...
I thought this was a story about the Tory party conference and was about Cameron, Osborne and Auntie Bella!
bbc.co.uk/.../...
I saw this headline and thought there was a protest in Manchester to bring back the TUC biscuit!
bbc.co.uk/.../...
I thought this was a story about the Tory party conference and was about Cameron, Osborne and Auntie Bella!
bbc.co.uk/.../...
I saw this headline and thought there was a protest in Manchester to bring back the TUC biscuit!
#
2011-10-02 13:39
Spot on mato 21.
Perhaps we should apply it to all the Westminster based puppets operating in these parts.
Perhaps we should apply it to all the Westminster based puppets operating in these parts.
#
2011-10-02 13:42
Auntie Bella will also say:
" Being part of a union is about sharing of responsibility, risks and rewards. “
Aye we know about ‘responsibility ’ and ‘risks’ but all Scoland gets for a reward are Tory CUTS.
" Being part of a union is about sharing of responsibility, risks and rewards. “
Aye we know about ‘responsibility ’ and ‘risks’ but all Scoland gets for a reward are Tory CUTS.
#
2011-10-02 13:47
Just looking at the picture made me think.
D.C. waving to the minions and thinking "god I'm good!"
A.G. looking up at D.C. and thinking "god you're a dork. Thank goodness I'm getting out while I can!"
D.C. waving to the minions and thinking "god I'm good!"
A.G. looking up at D.C. and thinking "god you're a dork. Thank goodness I'm getting out while I can!"
#
2011-10-02 13:57
Looks like divisions in the Tory party are starting to appear. Someone has woken Mundell up.
scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/.../...
In case people have forgotten who Mundell is, hes the 1 on the endangered species list… waiting for extinction.
scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/.../...
In case people have forgotten who Mundell is, hes the 1 on the endangered species list… waiting for extinction.
#
2011-10-02 14:02
And some unfair 'coaching' for wee Ruth. The Unionists favourite candidate...
scottishpol.blogspot.com/.../...
scottishpol.blogspot.com/.../...
#
2011-10-02 14:05
PLEASE! don't remind me.
I have the ignominy of suffering him as my M.P.
The only thing that has saved my sanity??? is that I have NEVER met him in person nor talked to him.
Mind you I did come close at the count in Dumfries in May. He showed his ugly mug there for a short while. Boy I was SO tempted. :D
I have the ignominy of suffering him as my M.P.
The only thing that has saved my sanity??? is that I have NEVER met him in person nor talked to him.
Mind you I did come close at the count in Dumfries in May. He showed his ugly mug there for a short while. Boy I was SO tempted. :D
#
2011-10-02 14:15
Arbroath1320
I have been informed, by a reliable source that the best cure for that… is to go and lie down in a darkened room for a while. But I feel sure that in your case that can only be a temporary measure.
I have been informed, by a reliable source that the best cure for that… is to go and lie down in a darkened room for a while. But I feel sure that in your case that can only be a temporary measure.
#
2011-10-02 14:06
He blundered and spluttered his way through his interview with brian earlier No doubt he had his fingers crossed behind his back hoping he would manage to stand up long enough to finish the interview
Any word on his expenses overspend Have I missed it?
Any word on his expenses overspend Have I missed it?
#
2011-10-02 14:08
Mundell is also awaiting his day in court for election expense irregularities as his appeal to the Court of Session to stop the Electoral Commission action against him was refused.
I understand Dumfries and Galloway Polis are awaiting the outcome of the Electoral Commission court action against Mundell prior to sending their own investigation on the same subject matter to the Fiscal for possible criminal action.
It could be that Scotland looses its last Tory MP to Barlinnie rather than the ballot box. :-D
RO2011 - you are a brave person exposing your health to permanent damage reading the garbage peddled by the Hootsmon in any of its forms.
I understand Dumfries and Galloway Polis are awaiting the outcome of the Electoral Commission court action against Mundell prior to sending their own investigation on the same subject matter to the Fiscal for possible criminal action.
It could be that Scotland looses its last Tory MP to Barlinnie rather than the ballot box. :-D
RO2011 - you are a brave person exposing your health to permanent damage reading the garbage peddled by the Hootsmon in any of its forms.
#
2011-10-02 14:21
Quote:
Just think though MJM.
Someone has to do it for the "cause".
We should all applaud him for having the courage to take this mission on.
This post will self destruct in 30 seconds! :D......... Sizzle! Sizzle!
RO2011 - you are a brave person exposing your health to permanent damage reading the garbage peddled by the Hootsmon in any of its forms.
Just think though MJM.
Someone has to do it for the "cause".
We should all applaud him for having the courage to take this mission on.
This post will self destruct in 30 seconds! :D......... Sizzle! Sizzle!
#
2011-10-02 14:27
Thank MJM I would hate to miss the sight of that thin line of sweat along his top lip
#
2011-10-02 14:15
Annabelle Goldie is a sheep in wolves clothing. I remember her nasty smears on Salmond and MacCaskill over Megraghi. That she wanted to damage Scotland's international reputation should not be forgotten. I emailed her to correct her inacurricies and to reject her assertion that she speaks for Scotland. She didnt respond. What a surprise, not.
Now suddenly she's had a Damascan conversion that Scotland, after all, could be a viable independent nation, or has she known this all along. What one is it Annabelle?
Where are the 'Scottish' journalists (where's Scoop when you need him!) to report this bombshell? Goldie has stood on a ticket, representing constituents in Scotland, telling them 'were too wee and too poor to go it alone and that we're stronger together when suddenly this isnt the case. Has she deliberately sold them down the river for the greater good of her party and for Englands interests? I think we should be told.
This is her swansong as Leader, maybe this is her bitter parting shot at the Country letting us know that she has sold us a lie for her self and her party, realising that Scotland is well on the road to regaining her independence.
Dont hold your breath on the 'Scottish' press reporting this to us, hell will freeze over first. Cheerio A.G, you can fool some of the people some of the time...but with your track record we wont take lessons from you.
Now suddenly she's had a Damascan conversion that Scotland, after all, could be a viable independent nation, or has she known this all along. What one is it Annabelle?
Where are the 'Scottish' journalists (where's Scoop when you need him!) to report this bombshell? Goldie has stood on a ticket, representing constituents in Scotland, telling them 'were too wee and too poor to go it alone and that we're stronger together when suddenly this isnt the case. Has she deliberately sold them down the river for the greater good of her party and for Englands interests? I think we should be told.
This is her swansong as Leader, maybe this is her bitter parting shot at the Country letting us know that she has sold us a lie for her self and her party, realising that Scotland is well on the road to regaining her independence.
Dont hold your breath on the 'Scottish' press reporting this to us, hell will freeze over first. Cheerio A.G, you can fool some of the people some of the time...but with your track record we wont take lessons from you.
#
2011-10-02 14:25
She did not reply to me either on the same subject I had expected better from her. I thought her upbringing would have instilled a high standard of good manners in her at the very least Apparently not. Hey Ho
#
2011-10-02 15:18
Yip mato21, when it comes to defending her beloved Union and trashing her own country (clue to A.G, Scotland), it seems manners go out the window and they lose the plot.
Thats when the 'respect' her and her master down South spoke about so much, registered a big fat zero on my richter scale.
Thats when the 'respect' her and her master down South spoke about so much, registered a big fat zero on my richter scale.
#
2011-10-02 14:32
Showing now "A united kingdom"
featuring said the Chair "our own man in Scotland"
I think she meant "our only man in Scotland"
www.bbc.co.uk/.../watchlive
featuring said the Chair "our own man in Scotland"
I think she meant "our only man in Scotland"
www.bbc.co.uk/.../watchlive
#
2011-10-02 14:33
David and anna are on stage ready for a question and answer session Parliament programme Must watch
#
2011-10-02 14:34
What is Goldie's motivation for saying this? I'm sure there's more to it than just trying to tell the truth.
...and she has still not been moved from her position that the Union is better for Scotland.
...and she has still not been moved from her position that the Union is better for Scotland.
#
2011-10-02 14:56
Annabelle is merely reiterating Sir Peter's words to his civil servants in a way she hopes the Tory faithful will understand. It is a message which says; If they Tories do not change track, and fast, the Union is screwed because the Scots electorate know just who is and has been subsidising who for the last 3 decades.Time to start working towards a federal UK because failure to do so, whilst following the current braying attacks on Scotland by the Mule and the Torygraph, will create a feral UK instead, a feral UK which Scotland will not be a part of which means a feral UK which basically has the 'erse oot its breeks'.
#
2011-10-02 16:25
Quote:
More like 3 centuries.
the Scots electorate know just who is and has been subsidising who for the last 3 decades
More like 3 centuries.
#
2011-10-02 15:00
Annabelle will be making her speech any minute now - David (the poodle) Mundell is just in the process of introducing the "outgoing" (and not turfed out as is commonly known) Tory Party Leader.
Naturally, no Tory would be happy to just give a speech about how wonderful they are themselves - but Mundell is true to form and taking a poke at Alex Salmond and the SNP. Obsessed much?
As a postscript I feel I have to add that Mundell is singularly unattractive in every sense of the word!! I wonder if he was born with that "bad smell under his nose" expression or did it come with his Conservative Party membership?
Naturally, no Tory would be happy to just give a speech about how wonderful they are themselves - but Mundell is true to form and taking a poke at Alex Salmond and the SNP. Obsessed much?
As a postscript I feel I have to add that Mundell is singularly unattractive in every sense of the word!! I wonder if he was born with that "bad smell under his nose" expression or did it come with his Conservative Party membership?
#
2011-10-02 15:07
2 minutes in and she is just as awful as always. Visceral in her hatred of Alex Salmond (or 2 salaries Salmond as she once referred to him in the Parliament!!!!) unable to conceal her jealousy and spite.
I don't want to argue with those who have some small measure of respect for her, but she is a sorry excuse for a human being in my book, and as down and dirty as Iain Gray any day of the week.
I don't want to argue with those who have some small measure of respect for her, but she is a sorry excuse for a human being in my book, and as down and dirty as Iain Gray any day of the week.
#
2011-10-02 15:20
A typically Annabelle speech.Just exactly what the blue rinse brigade want to hear.But nothing very inspiring for anyone else.I dont think she'll get folk queueing up to save the union on this performance.And what exactly is her country?
#
2011-10-02 15:28
Don't know about that those spotty faced yoof in the front row appear to be very enthusiastic, of course having barely lived they can be excused for their lack of knowledge and understanding of all things Scottish
#
2011-10-02 17:14
Online Editor here
Hi
Our information was that Goldie was going to specifically acknowledge that Scotland was not subsidised and that an independent country was viable. Scotland on Sunday had an article in a similar vein to ours regarding the subsidy myth. The article is headlined 'Annabel Goldie to quash subisidy argument'. I believe we were working from information contained in the same press release.
Hi
Our information was that Goldie was going to specifically acknowledge that Scotland was not subsidised and that an independent country was viable. Scotland on Sunday had an article in a similar vein to ours regarding the subsidy myth. The article is headlined 'Annabel Goldie to quash subisidy argument'. I believe we were working from information contained in the same press release.
#
2011-10-02 18:17
More like she never intended to say anything like this but put out a press release suggesting she would to get publicity for what otherwise would have been a complete non-event.
#
2011-10-02 21:27
Her explanation about Barnett being as high if not higher per capita in London, N Ireland and the North of England and that free prescriptions were paid out of the Scottish budget, primarily to pay for Alex Salmond's prescriptions, was all she was prepared to concede.
#
2011-10-02 18:26
Annabel Goldie to quash subisidy argument
scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/.../...
By Eddie Barnes
“ Annabel Goldie, the out-going leader of the Scots Tories, is to confront claims by English Tories today that Scotland is being subsidised by the rest of the UK.
In an effort to quash growing claims south of the Border about Scotland's spending, she will argue that the rest of the UK would end up worse off if Scotland became independent.
First Minister Alex Salmond last night said he "welcomed" Goldie's acceptance that "Tory attacks on Scotland's finances are wrong, misplaced and misleading". “
That’s the way I read it. Perhaps as ‘brusque’ says she bottled out. Possibly left her tartan breeks at home and lost the plot.
scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/.../...
By Eddie Barnes
“ Annabel Goldie, the out-going leader of the Scots Tories, is to confront claims by English Tories today that Scotland is being subsidised by the rest of the UK.
In an effort to quash growing claims south of the Border about Scotland's spending, she will argue that the rest of the UK would end up worse off if Scotland became independent.
First Minister Alex Salmond last night said he "welcomed" Goldie's acceptance that "Tory attacks on Scotland's finances are wrong, misplaced and misleading". “
That’s the way I read it. Perhaps as ‘brusque’ says she bottled out. Possibly left her tartan breeks at home and lost the plot.
#
2011-10-02 18:39
A lot of what she did say is in this report almost word for word in fact I think someone has taken her aside and warned her against rocking the boat She certainly did not do herself any favours with the rant she delivered If that is their way of gaining support I cannot see it being very successful
#
2011-10-02 15:26
Warning PFI will be costing Scots £1 billion a year:
heraldscotland.com/.../...
“ Taxpayers in Scotland are paying nearly £1 billion a year to private firms and banks for the schools, hospitals and other infrastructure projects built by big business over the last 15 years.
Experts have raised concerns about the mounting annual bill and have warned it is likely to get even bigger as costs rise.
Finance Secretary John Swinney’s budget will be £903 million lighter this year due to the payments, which now amount to more than 3.5% of the £25.4 billion total. This will rise by at least £350m over the next three years thanks to inflationary increases on existing private finance deals and the Scottish Government’s £2.5bn infrastructure programme.
The Edinburgh-based Cuthberts said that the blame mostly lies with the private finance initiative (PFI) schemes that were the hallmark of the New Labour years, and are still being pursued to mounting opposition south of the Border.
The Scottish Government has switched to a new system called non-profit distribution (NPD), which over the last couple of years has been used to build schools in Falkirk, Aberdeen, Moray and Argyll and a psychiatric hospital in Tayside. It caps the profits companies can make, but its critics claim it is still very similar to PFI.
“
Toxic Tories and NuLabour Numpties, time to call it a day for Scotland’s sake.
heraldscotland.com/.../...
“ Taxpayers in Scotland are paying nearly £1 billion a year to private firms and banks for the schools, hospitals and other infrastructure projects built by big business over the last 15 years.
Experts have raised concerns about the mounting annual bill and have warned it is likely to get even bigger as costs rise.
Finance Secretary John Swinney’s budget will be £903 million lighter this year due to the payments, which now amount to more than 3.5% of the £25.4 billion total. This will rise by at least £350m over the next three years thanks to inflationary increases on existing private finance deals and the Scottish Government’s £2.5bn infrastructure programme.
The Edinburgh-based Cuthberts said that the blame mostly lies with the private finance initiative (PFI) schemes that were the hallmark of the New Labour years, and are still being pursued to mounting opposition south of the Border.
The Scottish Government has switched to a new system called non-profit distribution (NPD), which over the last couple of years has been used to build schools in Falkirk, Aberdeen, Moray and Argyll and a psychiatric hospital in Tayside. It caps the profits companies can make, but its critics claim it is still very similar to PFI.
“
Toxic Tories and NuLabour Numpties, time to call it a day for Scotland’s sake.
#
2011-10-02 17:09
It caps the profits companies can make, but its critics claim it is still very similar to PFI.
PFI - What's in a name?
Surely the point is that NPD pays less in profits and does not hand an open, everlasting cheque to the private company. No conditions imposed by the companies, like charging for parking at hospitals, the property remaining theirs for ever and ancillary services, like supplying hospitals with food, subject to a thirty year contract.
PFI was a total rip off.
PFI - What's in a name?
Surely the point is that NPD pays less in profits and does not hand an open, everlasting cheque to the private company. No conditions imposed by the companies, like charging for parking at hospitals, the property remaining theirs for ever and ancillary services, like supplying hospitals with food, subject to a thirty year contract.
PFI was a total rip off.
#
2011-10-02 18:14
Indeed, a suite of new schools have been built in Argyll using the NPDO model. The actual constructions costs amounted to some £83 million. The final cost will be in the order of £300 million that the tax payers of Argyll, both currently and over the next twenty years will have to bear. This is criminal!
Perhaps NNS should look into the PFI/NPDO robbery in Scotland?
Perhaps NNS should look into the PFI/NPDO robbery in Scotland?
#
2011-10-02 15:28
Well thats Annabell done. From the ending of her speech, it seems she cant seem to accept the result of the Scottish people in May's Scottish election. I fear she needs to retire and go and take solace by stroking her Union Jack troll. This was a very very poor finale from A.G.
The political winds have blown through Scotland and we are on a new runway ready for take off. The Unionists views are yesterdays news. They have no positive vision or exciting good policies for Scotland just like Labour. They just want to keep the stranglehold on Scotland locked in to their Union.
Their views are beginning to fade into the mists of time. Bye Gray, Bye Goldie. All you ever needed to do was put your country Scotland and its people first. Simples!
The political winds have blown through Scotland and we are on a new runway ready for take off. The Unionists views are yesterdays news. They have no positive vision or exciting good policies for Scotland just like Labour. They just want to keep the stranglehold on Scotland locked in to their Union.
Their views are beginning to fade into the mists of time. Bye Gray, Bye Goldie. All you ever needed to do was put your country Scotland and its people first. Simples!
#
2011-10-02 16:47
More problems for the Tory selection process in Scotland can be found here order-order.com/.../....
Those who watched the Brian the hulk (without his braces)on The Politics Show this afternoon with supporters of each of the four candidates will have seen the next step in the great split now developing within the Scottish Conservative and Unionist party. Incidentally, those who saw poll on 'One Dynamic Nation' will be interested to know that it has been removed from the site - I understand it was terminated when the figure in favour of leaving the union reached 97%.
Those who watched the Brian the hulk (without his braces)on The Politics Show this afternoon with supporters of each of the four candidates will have seen the next step in the great split now developing within the Scottish Conservative and Unionist party. Incidentally, those who saw poll on 'One Dynamic Nation' will be interested to know that it has been removed from the site - I understand it was terminated when the figure in favour of leaving the union reached 97%.
#
2011-10-02 16:48
Goldie did a good job of making out she is some kind of matron keeping an eye on naughty boys.The reality is she is a nasty individual who has no hesitation in getting personal about people in a way that Salmond or even Gray would not.
Even her measured question on Thursday at FMQs completely ignored the fact that only a few months ago she was jumping up and down demanding action against sectarianisim right away.She is a hypocrite of the highest order.
Even her measured question on Thursday at FMQs completely ignored the fact that only a few months ago she was jumping up and down demanding action against sectarianisim right away.She is a hypocrite of the highest order.
#
2011-10-02 17:15
The reality is she is a nasty individual...
I agree with that take. Only Brian the Brain was amused at her anecdotes.
I agree with that take. Only Brian the Brain was amused at her anecdotes.
#
2011-10-02 17:28
Wholeheartedly agree.
Goldie has spouted a good deal of poison in her attacks on the SNP and Alex Salmond at a more personal level.
She seems to have had her head turned when people commented that she was a "popular" Tory Leader in Scotland, despite the fact that her own party couldn't wait to be shot of her. The Headmistress act has fooled nobody, and she is despicable underneath her facade, no morals, no ethics, and now no real role within her party.
The sooner someone puts her gas at a peep the better.
Goldie has spouted a good deal of poison in her attacks on the SNP and Alex Salmond at a more personal level.
She seems to have had her head turned when people commented that she was a "popular" Tory Leader in Scotland, despite the fact that her own party couldn't wait to be shot of her. The Headmistress act has fooled nobody, and she is despicable underneath her facade, no morals, no ethics, and now no real role within her party.
The sooner someone puts her gas at a peep the better.
#
2011-10-02 17:18
I watched the tories today, it was incredibly reassuring. They have no clue, I can't believe that Cheryl Gillan is a cabinet minister. How Murdo Fraser must have cringed at her weak and frankly ignorant contribution. That joke about Scotland's rugby team and calling Mundell 'Secretary of State'. The constant references to the superior way things are done in England. They can't stop themselves, Scotland and Wales are just rubbish to them.
Bella was her real, bitter unionist self, letting her mask slip with false claims about Salmond. She simply cannot see that her red, white and blue empire is dead. They are stuck in the 1950s and wee Ruth will keep them there. I am more convinced than ever that Ruth will win the leadership. Keep going agent Davidson, your country needs you.
Bella was her real, bitter unionist self, letting her mask slip with false claims about Salmond. She simply cannot see that her red, white and blue empire is dead. They are stuck in the 1950s and wee Ruth will keep them there. I am more convinced than ever that Ruth will win the leadership. Keep going agent Davidson, your country needs you.
#
2011-10-02 17:34
I think I'm right in saying only 1400 people voted for Ruth Davidson at the election.
While the union may be dying,it is still more popular than independence among Scots.We still need to convince an awful lot of people.
While the union may be dying,it is still more popular than independence among Scots.We still need to convince an awful lot of people.
#
2011-10-02 17:38
OT:
From the Sunday Herald:
Taxpayers in Scotland are paying nearly £1 billion a year to private firms and banks for the schools, hospitals and other infrastructure projects built by big business over the last 15 years.
and
David Watt, executive director of the Institute of Directors Scotland said ‘the shortfall could be made up by cutting back on things like free bus passes for working people and free eye care for those who could afford it.’
It’ll need a heck of a lot of free bus passes and eye tests to pay off the PFI rip-off.
tinyurl.com/3ucfzwp
From the Sunday Herald:
Taxpayers in Scotland are paying nearly £1 billion a year to private firms and banks for the schools, hospitals and other infrastructure projects built by big business over the last 15 years.
and
David Watt, executive director of the Institute of Directors Scotland said ‘the shortfall could be made up by cutting back on things like free bus passes for working people and free eye care for those who could afford it.’
It’ll need a heck of a lot of free bus passes and eye tests to pay off the PFI rip-off.
tinyurl.com/3ucfzwp
#
2011-10-02 18:19
I saw this article as well and thought to myself 'why are pensioners to give up their free bus passes to pay for the PFI costs but bankers etc. are not being asked to give up the profits they made from PFI.'
#
2011-10-02 18:43
A boxer dropped his guard in a championship fight last week and yes, he received the sucker punch. All within the rules it was declared.Lets not drop Scotland's guard. What Annabelle Goldie says at the Conservative conference is essentially irrelevant.
A complete quick separation split of Scotland from the UK would be a disaster for England. The UN Security seat, re-location of Trident, World perception of a lesser England. So I suggest we anticipate a pragmatic divorce.
Some may consider a pragmatic divorce to be Devo Max. My view is that it is essential is to break from the numerical dominance of Westminster and secure fiscal control of Scotland's resources, taxes etc., anything less would be a sellout.
Consider : Sharing defence, as some have proposed would potentially involve us in future futile wars.
Sharing diplomatic resources would simply mean paying for promotion of England overseas - as is currently the case.
Cameron may or not be a pragmatist, or even smart, but the Establishment behind him certainly are. underestimate them at your peril.
A complete quick separation split of Scotland from the UK would be a disaster for England. The UN Security seat, re-location of Trident, World perception of a lesser England. So I suggest we anticipate a pragmatic divorce.
Some may consider a pragmatic divorce to be Devo Max. My view is that it is essential is to break from the numerical dominance of Westminster and secure fiscal control of Scotland's resources, taxes etc., anything less would be a sellout.
Consider : Sharing defence, as some have proposed would potentially involve us in future futile wars.
Sharing diplomatic resources would simply mean paying for promotion of England overseas - as is currently the case.
Cameron may or not be a pragmatist, or even smart, but the Establishment behind him certainly are. underestimate them at your peril.
#
2011-10-02 19:07
velofello
“ Cameron may or not be a pragmatist, or even smart, but the Establishment behind him certainly are. Underestimate them at your peril. “
Aye it’s a bit lot like local elections… it does not matter who you vote for the Council always gets back in.
“ Cameron may or not be a pragmatist, or even smart, but the Establishment behind him certainly are. Underestimate them at your peril. “
Aye it’s a bit lot like local elections… it does not matter who you vote for the Council always gets back in.
#
2011-10-02 19:44
did you notice the scottish politics show should have been hosted by Isobel Fraser
instead we got benign braces Brian. to dampen things down!
instead we got benign braces Brian. to dampen things down!
#
2011-10-02 20:18
Quoting rouser:
If you don't mind me asking, would you perchance be the same 'rouser' of Brian's BBC blog fame?
did you notice the scottish politics show should have been hosted by Isobel Fraser
instead we got benign braces Brian. to dampen things down!
If you don't mind me asking, would you perchance be the same 'rouser' of Brian's BBC blog fame?
#
2011-10-02 20:39
sorry Scottish..skier cant comment without breaking house rules.but "you" are allowed to assume i.l see you on nick Robinson?
#
2011-10-02 20:36
I would like to add, concerning defence matters, and the Establishment mindset:
Way back in the days of black and white TV a plummy accented British Army officer offered his view that "the Jocks make damn fine soldiers". All these years back and I still resent that observation.
And then Northern Ireland, and please no responses about the Troubles. Wasn't it the case that officers in the B specials (?) could only be English? No Irish allowed?
Did you note the punter's question on Question Time, Thursday past on the UK continuing to being the world's policeman?
You have to get into their mindset otherwise you will be gent-illy shafted.
"And did those feet in ancient times, walk upon" etc etc.
Get it?
Way back in the days of black and white TV a plummy accented British Army officer offered his view that "the Jocks make damn fine soldiers". All these years back and I still resent that observation.
And then Northern Ireland, and please no responses about the Troubles. Wasn't it the case that officers in the B specials (?) could only be English? No Irish allowed?
Did you note the punter's question on Question Time, Thursday past on the UK continuing to being the world's policeman?
You have to get into their mindset otherwise you will be gent-illy shafted.
"And did those feet in ancient times, walk upon" etc etc.
Get it?
#
2011-10-02 21:39
velofello
The jocks do make damned fine soldiers. The point is that the English make damned poor leaders. Having fine soldiers is something to be proud of and a resource to be nurtured and well used. Good soldiers will PREVENT a conflict. They will SAVE lives. They can enable PEACE. We do have damned fine soldiers but they should not be squandered by an EMPIRE focused on greed.
The jocks do make damned fine soldiers. The point is that the English make damned poor leaders. Having fine soldiers is something to be proud of and a resource to be nurtured and well used. Good soldiers will PREVENT a conflict. They will SAVE lives. They can enable PEACE. We do have damned fine soldiers but they should not be squandered by an EMPIRE focused on greed.
#
2011-10-02 20:49
Quoting rouser:
Lets just say I am something of a scarlet pimpernel.....
sorry Scottish..skier cant comment without breaking house rules.but "you" are allowed to assume i.l see you on nick Robinson?
Lets just say I am something of a scarlet pimpernel.....
#
2011-10-02 21:18
Having just caught (caught as in a disease) some of Goldie's conference speech on the parliament channel, the audience must have been wondering why she resorted to continuous Salmond bashing if, as she implies, he is not that important.
#
2011-10-02 21:49
Can anyone confirm if she did or didn't say it, and whether the original info came from an official press release of hers?
#
2011-10-02 22:23
Story in today's Scotland on Sunday by Eddie Barnes scotsman.com/.../...
Suspect she was threatened if she did not drop this from her conference speech.
Suspect she was threatened if she did not drop this from her conference speech.
#
2011-10-02 22:38
15:07 on this Telegraph timeline is interesting. Not sure exactly who the comment in italics is by.
telegraph.co.uk/.../...
telegraph.co.uk/.../...
#
2011-10-02 23:07
The text is
"She says the idea Scotland takes more money than the rest of the UK is a myth - Wales, Northern Ireland and London also receive large amounts of government spending."
This is a dangerous line to play for Unionists - much of the SNP case is built on saying Scotland can pay its own way and isn't dependent on cash from the South.
I think the italics are from the Telegraph journalists.
What they haven't spotted is the change from Goldie's press release where she was saying that Scotland was a net contributor to the UK.
"She says the idea Scotland takes more money than the rest of the UK is a myth - Wales, Northern Ireland and London also receive large amounts of government spending."
This is a dangerous line to play for Unionists - much of the SNP case is built on saying Scotland can pay its own way and isn't dependent on cash from the South.
I think the italics are from the Telegraph journalists.
What they haven't spotted is the change from Goldie's press release where she was saying that Scotland was a net contributor to the UK.
#
2011-10-03 00:02
Oddly enough your headline to this article seems to have escaped the attention of BBC Scotland's website and news broadcasts and I'm sure won't feature heavily...or even lightly in tomorrows unionist press.
Thankfully it doesn't matter because the Scots are getting the message in other ways.
We are most definitely on our way.
Thankfully it doesn't matter because the Scots are getting the message in other ways.
We are most definitely on our way.
#
2011-10-03 06:41
This is VERY important. If anyone can show the original press release, and then if she didn't repeat those words in her speech, then she must have been nobbled. This would be tantamount to proof that Cameron and the Tory party are, even to this day, suppressing the truth.
It appears she did actually say, "The idea Scotland takes more money than the rest of the UK is a myth", which is relevant, but not nearly as powerful as what her press release said she was going to say.
It appears she did actually say, "The idea Scotland takes more money than the rest of the UK is a myth", which is relevant, but not nearly as powerful as what her press release said she was going to say.
#
2011-10-03 09:53
An article by Eddie Barnes in the Hootsman states quite clearly that Annabelle intended to quash arguements that Scotland was subsidised and that the Union would,therefore ,be poorer without us. This was obviously based on a Press Release which I have failed to find. The speech was obviously altered before delivery.
#
2011-10-03 13:00
I knew she was up to something! I think the press release and "late change" were mis-direction.
Was the press release to the Scottish media only?
Was the press release to the Scottish media only?
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It's interesting - but not alarming. My ... - East Lothian: Labour ally with...
Really? Apart from the 1945-50 governme... - The 'Great Debate' isn't just ...
Lesley says, “Deprivation for example is... - Late, Late appearance for Salm...
Thanks for these three. I viewed the Ale... - East Lothian: Labour ally with...
bbc website first minister questions! bb... - Scottish Independence: The Dar...
Ha ha, I know that - no worries. Just aw... - Conservatives at war over Came...
They should have gone with Murdo ! - Conservatives at war over Came...
"cannot stand the sight of each other" I... - East Lothian: Labour ally with...
Was just listening to that in the radio ... - Scottish Independence: The Dar...
On another thread I remarked I was stopp... - Conservatives at war over Came...
Probably because they are. - East Lothian: Labour ally with...
Nice to see the labour leader wearing a ... - Conservatives at war over Came...
What's this? A junior party member from ... - Scottish Independence: The Dar...
exel: They lose the referendum vote? OR,... - Scottish Independence: The Dar...
That wasn't meant as a a dig. I was jus... - Scottish Independence: The Dar...
' What may I ask will happen if the part... - East Lothian: Labour ally with...
From BBC Scotland "As-it-happened":- 122...