Friday, 03 February 2012 21:00
17 Comments
An open letter written by Humza Yousaf MSP calling for Glasgow City Council to refuse permission for the Scottish Defence League (SDL) to hold a public procession through Glasgow’s streets has been signed by party leaders across the political spectrum, representatives from trade unions and faith groups in Scotland.
The Scottish Defence League, an offshoot of the English Defence League, have an application making its way through Glasgow City Council to march on February 25th.
Commenting, Humza Yousaf said:
“I am a firm believer in free speech – regardless of how unsavoury it may be. However, it is imperative freedom of speech is not at the expense of public safety. The SDL must not be given free rein on our streets to peddle their toxic hatred.
“It is perverse that the SDL application to march along our city will go through Nelson Mandela Place. We have seen previous defence league marches end in violence as mindless thugs go on the rampage against shopkeepers, businesses and innocent bystanders.
“Politicians, trade unions and faith groups have come together on a collective platform to vigorously oppose any march organised by the SDL through the streets of Glasgow. I am sure the City Council will see the strength of feeling opposing this procession of hatred and refuse the SDL application.'
Human rights lawyer and organiser of Scotland United Aamer Anwar said:
“Neo Nazis masquerading under the flag of Scotland are not welcome in our city. Once again Scotland is united in demanding that any march be refused by the Council. These violent racist thugs must never be allowed to incite hatred against any section of our communities.”
The letter:
We the undersigned express our extreme concern at our streets being used for the peddling of hatred. We vigorously oppose giving the Scottish Defence League (SDL), or any of their offshoots, permission to hold a public procession through Glasgow.
We understand that an application has gone in to Glasgow City Council and that the SDL are in discussions with the police and the local authority. We urge all authorities to reject this application on the grounds of public safety and moral decency.
With previous SDL and EDL processions we have witnessed mindless thugs attack shopkeepers, business owners and taxi drivers. While we passionately defend freedom of speech – regardless of how unpleasant it may be – we do not believe vile, toxic hate should be given free rein in our streets.
Glasgow has a proud history of fighting fascism and tackling racism. We are proud of our multicultural diversity and as such we wish to send out a loud and clear message that racism is not welcome in our city.
We seek your assurances that these concerns will be taken on board and that any application for the Scottish Defence League to march in our city’s streets will be rejected.
Signatories
- Humza Yousaf MSP (Glasgow)
- Nicola Sturgeon MSP (Glasgow Southside)
- Johann Lamont MSP Leader of Scottish Labour Party (Glasgow Pollok)
- Ruth Davidson MSP Leader of the Scottish Conservatives
- Patrick Harvie MSP Co-Convenor of the Scottish Green Party
- Aamer Anwar – Human Rights Lawyer
- Dave Watson UNISON Scottish Organiser
- Dave Moxham STUC Assistant Secretary
- Unite Scotland
- Reverend Iain Galloway Convener, Church and Society Council, the Church of Scotland
- Scottish Council of Jewish Communities
- Dr Salah Beltagui Muslim Council of Scotland
- Unite Against Fascism
- James Dornan MSP (Glasgow Cathcart)
- Bill Kidd MSP (Glasgow Anniesland)
- Sandra White MSP (Glasgow Kelvin)
- John Mason MSP (Glasgow Shettleston)
- Bob Doris MSP (Glasgow)
- Drew Smith MSP (Glasgow)
- Elaine Smith MSP (Coatbridge & Chryston)
- PCS Union
- Society of Radiographers
- FDA Union
- CWU Scotland Regional Committee
Comments
#
2012-02-04 00:55
Its good to see everyone uniting against the thugs, including the Labour and Tory party, muslims and Jews!
#
2012-02-04 11:40
Is it? The right to free assembly is a basic one in a democracy. No right thinking person can agree with what these people believe in and propose but taking away their right to say it helps their cause rather than hinders it.
Quote:
First of all that statement is oxymoronic but what would you say if Cameron said that about group of independence supporters who wished to parade round Trafalgar Square?
You cannot have both freedom of speech and political censorship. No matter how evil, twisted and unpleasant the message is.
Quote:
While we passionately defend freedom of speech – regardless of how unpleasant it may be – we do not believe vile, toxic hate should be given free rein in our streets.
First of all that statement is oxymoronic but what would you say if Cameron said that about group of independence supporters who wished to parade round Trafalgar Square?
You cannot have both freedom of speech and political censorship. No matter how evil, twisted and unpleasant the message is.
#
2012-02-04 13:34
Oh entirely, I'm all for free speech, there is nothing wrong with twelve SDL idiots keeking in their pants as they are surrounded by hundreds of people chanting "scum" at them.
Its far better than playng into their hands and banning them.
Its far better than playng into their hands and banning them.
#
2012-02-04 12:24
Yes, i don't see Glasgow City Council giving permission to any group who would want to spew their vile, toxic hate on our streets...............Oh wait a minute.
#
2012-02-04 13:51
Totally agree with Angus.
Fungus, free speech comes with responsibility. Nobody has the right to march about our city centres making nazi salutes, shouting abuse and threatening members of the public with violence, which is what the EDL and SDL like to do.
Step on these scum bags at every opportunity. And if the council and the police won't stop them then the public will.
Fungus, free speech comes with responsibility. Nobody has the right to march about our city centres making nazi salutes, shouting abuse and threatening members of the public with violence, which is what the EDL and SDL like to do.
Step on these scum bags at every opportunity. And if the council and the police won't stop them then the public will.
#
2012-02-04 14:59
vna look at the video posted by pmcreck, everyone united in shouting the toerag down. A couple of years ago my wife and I were cycling in Kilmarnock when we got caught up one of these rallies we didn't know was on. The BNP, or whatever guise they were taking that day, speaker asked for support and someone passing by shouted 'Support, ah widnae ge ye the reek aff ma shite ya bastard' at which point everyone else started laughing at them.
That's how to deal with them, let them have the same rights as everyone in a representative democracy should have but make sure when they are exercising those rights that their message is totally unacceptable to the vast majority of the decent people of this country.
The other way is anathema to a democracy and gives them a reason for existence. 'They ban us because they are frightened of the truth'.
That's how to deal with them, let them have the same rights as everyone in a representative democracy should have but make sure when they are exercising those rights that their message is totally unacceptable to the vast majority of the decent people of this country.
The other way is anathema to a democracy and gives them a reason for existence. 'They ban us because they are frightened of the truth'.
#
2012-02-04 15:58
Quote:
Fungus,
Yes yes yes, I think you mentioned that the last time this came up.
The thing is in a fair and functioning democracy you have to play by the rules. As I said before, free speech comes with responsibility, and that starts with common decency and respect for basic laws.
As for videos of the EDF and SDL, perhaps you should do a little searching about on U-tube, though as a former police officer (I think I remember, sorry if I got that wrong) I'd have thought you'd be well versed in what these scum bags stand for.
Note the racial hatred, intimidation and threatening behaviour in many of the EDL clips. Try a little general googling. Note that the EDL is a coming together of football casuals and fascists, basically out looking for a fight, and frankly anybody will do.
Surf the web further and find their webs sites, web sites full of photographs of human rights activists, politicians, anti-war activists, journalists and charity workers, complete with requests for phone numbers and addresses of those depicted so they can threaten or better still pop round and give em a good kicking, or perhaps a few knife wounds. And it has happened.
Don't give them one inch. Step on them wherever they are to be found.
Hopefully Glasgow City Council will take note of this letter, and the views of the people of Scotland and ban this so called march, and not listen to those who do very much miss-understand free speech and democracy.
A couple of years ago my wife and I were cycling in Kilmarnock when we got caught up one of these rallies we didn't know was on. The BNP, or whatever guise they were taking that day, speaker asked for support and someone passing by shouted 'Support, ah widnae ge ye the reek aff ma shite ya bastard' at which point everyone else started laughing at them.
Fungus,
Yes yes yes, I think you mentioned that the last time this came up.
The thing is in a fair and functioning democracy you have to play by the rules. As I said before, free speech comes with responsibility, and that starts with common decency and respect for basic laws.
As for videos of the EDF and SDL, perhaps you should do a little searching about on U-tube, though as a former police officer (I think I remember, sorry if I got that wrong) I'd have thought you'd be well versed in what these scum bags stand for.
Note the racial hatred, intimidation and threatening behaviour in many of the EDL clips. Try a little general googling. Note that the EDL is a coming together of football casuals and fascists, basically out looking for a fight, and frankly anybody will do.
Surf the web further and find their webs sites, web sites full of photographs of human rights activists, politicians, anti-war activists, journalists and charity workers, complete with requests for phone numbers and addresses of those depicted so they can threaten or better still pop round and give em a good kicking, or perhaps a few knife wounds. And it has happened.
Don't give them one inch. Step on them wherever they are to be found.
Hopefully Glasgow City Council will take note of this letter, and the views of the people of Scotland and ban this so called march, and not listen to those who do very much miss-understand free speech and democracy.
#
2012-02-04 17:21
Quote:
I was and I recall standing between the BNP or some similar nazi group and a coalition of left wing and anti-nazi league groups in Glasgow. The nazis were having a demo and the rest were out to protest. My job, and that of my colleagues was to make sure they both got what a democracy promises. At one point things got heated and we had to hold them apart (this was before the days of crash helmets and riot shields). The group on one side were kicking and punching us calling us illegitimate procreational lovers of people from the Indian sub- continent, the ones on the other side were punching and kicking us calling us Thatcher's boot boys. Two things went through my mind...you couldn't actually tell what group was what without the banners, all they were wanting was a bit of public disorder and that we must have been doing something right if both lots were beating on us.
Quote:
Don't get their illegal and criminal activities confused with their right to discuss their twisted views. How can people know what they are like if they are gagged? And what a recruiting tool that would be..'gagged by the government who don't want you to hear the truth.'
as a former police officer (I think I remember, sorry if I got that wrong) I'd have thought you'd be well versed in what these scum bags stand for.
I was and I recall standing between the BNP or some similar nazi group and a coalition of left wing and anti-nazi league groups in Glasgow. The nazis were having a demo and the rest were out to protest. My job, and that of my colleagues was to make sure they both got what a democracy promises. At one point things got heated and we had to hold them apart (this was before the days of crash helmets and riot shields). The group on one side were kicking and punching us calling us illegitimate procreational lovers of people from the Indian sub- continent, the ones on the other side were punching and kicking us calling us Thatcher's boot boys. Two things went through my mind...you couldn't actually tell what group was what without the banners, all they were wanting was a bit of public disorder and that we must have been doing something right if both lots were beating on us.
Quote:
Note the racial hatred, intimidation and threatening behaviour in many of the EDL clips.
Surf the web further and find their web sites full of photographs of human rights activists, politicians, anti-war activists, journalists and charity workers, complete with requests for phone numbers and addresses
Don't get their illegal and criminal activities confused with their right to discuss their twisted views. How can people know what they are like if they are gagged? And what a recruiting tool that would be..'gagged by the government who don't want you to hear the truth.'
#
2012-02-04 19:36
Quote:
Yup and that was the other part of your post the other time round.
You know (and hopefully coming up with a new comment on a cut and paste post) it's a bit of a worry if The Polis cannae, or have trouble spotting the typical EDL/SDL facist. I know I can in a nanosecond.
Quote:
That is the whole point, the two are the same thing. And if they don't like it, they can challenge it in courts (which of course is highly unlikely). Hey they could even try the European Human Rights Court if they wished, but you know what, they ain't gonna, and they ain't got a hope in hell anyway.
I was and I recall standing between the BNP or some similar nazi group and a coalition of left wing and anti-nazi league groups in Glasgow. The nazis were having a demo and the rest were out to protest. My job, and that of my colleagues was to make sure they both got what a democracy promises. At one point things got heated and we had to hold them apart (this was before the days of crash helmets and riot shields). The group on one side were kicking and punching us calling us illegitimate procreational lovers of people from the Indian sub- continent, the ones on the other side were punching and kicking us calling us Thatcher's boot boys. Two things went through my mind...you couldn't actually tell what group was what without the banners, all they were wanting was a bit of public disorder and that we must have been doing something right if both lots were beating on us.
Yup and that was the other part of your post the other time round.
You know (and hopefully coming up with a new comment on a cut and paste post) it's a bit of a worry if The Polis cannae, or have trouble spotting the typical EDL/SDL facist. I know I can in a nanosecond.
Quote:
Don't get their illegal and criminal activities confused with their right to discuss their twisted views.
That is the whole point, the two are the same thing. And if they don't like it, they can challenge it in courts (which of course is highly unlikely). Hey they could even try the European Human Rights Court if they wished, but you know what, they ain't gonna, and they ain't got a hope in hell anyway.
#
2012-02-05 00:25
Am I repeating myself? Must be an age thing :-) Sorry.
All I really want to say is that you cannot call a state democratic when you pick and choose who is allowed to exercise the right of free speech. Because then speech isn't free is it?
All I really want to say is that you cannot call a state democratic when you pick and choose who is allowed to exercise the right of free speech. Because then speech isn't free is it?
#
2012-02-05 00:55
Quite right. If you deprive even one person of a right, it stops being a right and becomes a privilege. And sooner or later, someone withdraws the privilege from someone you do want to listen to.
#
2012-02-05 10:54
While I am sympathetic to the desire to stop these people from spouting their garbage, I have to agree with Fungus here. Free speak as a right should never be 'rationed' or used as a tool to control a people. If we 'agree' that preventing the SDL/EDL/BNP etc. to march, protest,comment etc.then we give a future government the precedent to say that "Nationalistic speech" is no longer permitted = no SNP voice.
Beware of adopting Groucho Marx's position,"These are my principles! If you don't like them ... I have others!"
Beware of adopting Groucho Marx's position,"These are my principles! If you don't like them ... I have others!"
#
2012-02-05 15:43
They dont want free speech.... they want to go on a march, drink copious ammounts of lager and get involved in some fighting and rioting 'Tottenham' style!
Watch the very last bit of this short news report....
www.youtube.com/.../
Watch the very last bit of this short news report....
www.youtube.com/.../
#
2012-02-05 13:35
What do those pathetic wee nyaffs in the sdl think they're defending us against? I dont want them defending me, thank you very much, but let them spew their bile. The Scots are wise enough to see them for what they are.
#
2012-02-05 15:39
Quote:
A democratic state must also protect the general public and in particular minorities.
I do not believe that racial abuse, threatening behaviour and violence are protected under free speech. To claim so is nonsensical.
I do not think that football casuals, racists and fascists have a right to take over our city centres.
I marched through Glasgow in November 2009 along with thousands of others in response to the SDL attempts to hold a march through Glasgow and to rally outside a Glasgow mosque (now I'm the one repeating myself Fungus!). I'll march again, and if necessary I'll stand in the way of any SDL/EDL march in Scotland.
The SDL currently has little real support in Scotland. Scottish councils so far have generally opposed and banned their marches and rallies. But you can be rest assured that if our councils decide to spend public money and use our police to protect these thugs, allowing them to express their vile views and intimidate and attack the general public, then bus and train loads of their buddies from the EDL down south will be on their way to Scottish cities. It'll be game on.
And for those of you who talk of protecting the political views and rights of the SDL and EDL, I suggest you take ten minutes to watch this footage of the EDL exercising their right to march and express their, umm, political views in English cities.
www.youtube.com/.../
Meanwhile I have no doubt that Glasgow City Council will make the right decision and ban this proposed march.
All I really want to say is that you cannot call a state democratic when you pick and choose who is allowed to exercise the right of free speech. Because then speech isn't free is it?
A democratic state must also protect the general public and in particular minorities.
I do not believe that racial abuse, threatening behaviour and violence are protected under free speech. To claim so is nonsensical.
I do not think that football casuals, racists and fascists have a right to take over our city centres.
I marched through Glasgow in November 2009 along with thousands of others in response to the SDL attempts to hold a march through Glasgow and to rally outside a Glasgow mosque (now I'm the one repeating myself Fungus!). I'll march again, and if necessary I'll stand in the way of any SDL/EDL march in Scotland.
The SDL currently has little real support in Scotland. Scottish councils so far have generally opposed and banned their marches and rallies. But you can be rest assured that if our councils decide to spend public money and use our police to protect these thugs, allowing them to express their vile views and intimidate and attack the general public, then bus and train loads of their buddies from the EDL down south will be on their way to Scottish cities. It'll be game on.
And for those of you who talk of protecting the political views and rights of the SDL and EDL, I suggest you take ten minutes to watch this footage of the EDL exercising their right to march and express their, umm, political views in English cities.
www.youtube.com/.../
Meanwhile I have no doubt that Glasgow City Council will make the right decision and ban this proposed march.
#
2012-02-06 13:35
I ve never had any dislike for anyone because of race or nationality.
Sectarianism and rascism are the same thing, arent they?
At least the LabServatives are condemning this one, but then they kind of have no choice but to condemn it, but I m not sure about their commitment to condemning sectarianism?
Sectarianism and rascism are the same thing, arent they?
At least the LabServatives are condemning this one, but then they kind of have no choice but to condemn it, but I m not sure about their commitment to condemning sectarianism?
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