Tuesday, 21 February 2012 07:23
291 Comments
By G.A.Ponsonby 
Another day and another complaint from someone unhappy that First Minister Alex Salmond has given his views on a subject.
A few weeks ago it was the BBC who didn’t like the idea of the SNP leader corrupting the minds of Rugby fans by speaking on TV prior to the international against England.
This weekend a journalist at the Sunday Mail criticised the First Minister for daring to suggest that the survival of Glasgow Rangers is preferable to extinction. Similar attacks were broadcast by BBC Radio Scotland after an ex-football chairman had a go at Mr Salmond.
Now two Scottish Labour MSPs have become the latest to express unhappiness with Mr Salmond’s fondness for speaking publicly on an issue.
Mr Salmond’s ‘crime’ this time was to express a positive view on the proposals to develop Aberdeen’s Union Terrace Gardens.
I admit to knowing next to nothing about this issue save that there are two opposing views on the proposals and there is to be a referendum where the people will decide – no, not that referendum.
Richard Baker, a Labour MSP from the same area as Mr Salmond claimed that the wisdom shown by the First Minister was “highly questionable”.
Mr Baker is someone I find difficult to take seriously. I recall one embarrassing episode in the Holyrood chamber when he attempted to attack the SNP record on crime only to discover that the figures he cited were from a period when his own party were in office.
His stint as his party’s spokesman on crime was a disaster, culminating in an embarrassing episode pre-election where figures he cited on the costs of knife crime were exposed as complete fabrication. Baker is someone who would do well to heed his own advice.
Mr Baker was joined by fellow Labour MSP Lewis Macdonald. The North-East Labour MSP even tried to rope in the old Trump nonsense for good measure and said: "When Donald Trump came here he [Mr Salmond] leapt in to support that project.
"One would have thought he might have learnt from that experience now that Donald Trump is opposing every other project that impacts on that area.”
Macdonald forgot that the person who leapt in with Trump was one Jack McConnell who, when First Minister, leapt into a helicopter to ferry ‘the Donald’ around Scotland in search of a suitable spot for his golf course.
Mr Macdonald wasn’t alone in playing the ‘Trump card’, he was joined by BBC Scotland who declared, quite wrongly, that Mr Salmond had been “rapped over the knuckles” as a result of his dealings with Trump.
Mr Salmond was in fact cleared of any wrongdoing after a Holyrood Committee found no evidence to back up ridiculous claims of sleaze. But hey, people have forgotten the facts of this hoary old chestnut, so why not chuck in these throw away lines.
Anyway, back to the original point – silencing the First Minister.
I’m not sure if any other political leader in the UK has been reprimanded by opponents so many times for simply speaking. The Union Garden’s attack has to be the worst attempt though.
But it got me thinking, where do we stop with these ‘gagging orders’?
Let’s stop Mr Salmond from expressing a view on anything at all unless expressly sanctioned by London - especially on foreign visits where he is known to say positive things about Scotland and encourage inward investment.
Let’s go further and remove SNP representatives from TV and Radio discussion programmes. Instead of the usual three versus one we can have four or even five Unionist politicians or commentators say whatever they want, especially on the issue Scottish independence, with no-one opposing their views.
And just to make sure we don’t experience an outspoken SNP First Minister again, we can bar him from appearing on any televised leaders’ debate.
All three too ridiculous to even contemplate aren’t they? - Except that all three have already either happened or have been proposed by Unionist politicians.
Don’t believe me?
Lord George Foulkes recently proposed an amendment to the Scotland Bill that would have prevented any Scottish First Minister from speaking to foreign government officials unless cleared by Whitehall first.
Mr Salmond was prevented from appearing on the BBC’s General Election Debates prior to the 2010 UK General Election.
Last week on Question Time, panellists were invited to give their views on the referendum and Scottish independence with absolutely no independence minded representative present. Don’t think this is a one-off, similar episodes of political imbalance have been witnessed on several BBC Scotland programmes.
For those who missed it, here is David Dimbleby and panel ‘educating’ the viewer on the shortcomings of Scottish independence.
Comments
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2012-02-20 23:12
Baker, MacDonald and mis-reporting Scotland all in one article - I'm away to the dark room again!
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2012-02-20 23:18
Let Scotland Go led by the most brilliant politician in the UK.
Can't say fairer than that.
Can't say fairer than that.
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2012-02-20 23:44
could be good to get the paper's involved. But nobody likes or trusts Murdoch right now, this could be a bad thing.
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2012-02-21 00:38
Those morons at BBC Scotland clearly think it's a bad thing .. but I don't think so .. If the Scottish Sun newspaper exposes the BBC over their anti Scottish Government, anti-independence, anti prosperity for Scotland bias and propaganda, finally we will see those Labour zombies at BBC Scotland humiliated (as the world will see their total lack of journalistic integrity) .... and preferably sacked.
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2012-02-20 23:40
Quoting Ready to Start:
The BBC did report Rupert Murdoch's endorsement but then blotted its copybook by claiming that Alex Salmond had been rapped over the knuckles over the Trump affair when in fact like every other vexatious Unionist complaint Alex Salmond was cleared by the independent Parliamentary authorities.
Let Scotland Go led by the most brilliant politician in the UK.
Can't say fairer than that.
The BBC did report Rupert Murdoch's endorsement but then blotted its copybook by claiming that Alex Salmond had been rapped over the knuckles over the Trump affair when in fact like every other vexatious Unionist complaint Alex Salmond was cleared by the independent Parliamentary authorities.
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2012-02-20 23:22
The Unionist onslaught against the first Minister continues, with the BBC giving them air time for their absolute nonsence.
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2012-02-20 23:22
Waffling buffoons. Who cares? Medieval kingdoms? One waffler mentioned Cornwall, though I doubt he knew the consequences of that... Common history... I got taught that at school. Don't remember a mention of Scotland then, it was all foreign history. Nice to know the people of Nottingham will be better off without us!
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2012-02-20 23:23
The BBC is showing itself to be merely a propagandist puppet of Westminster. It is a pity that other broadcasters would not start shining a light on such things.
However, on the upside (and there is one), give the BBC enough rope.....
Their day will come.
However, on the upside (and there is one), give the BBC enough rope.....
Their day will come.
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2012-02-20 23:38
Quoting Robert Louis:
Yes I heard that "knuckles rapped" comment . Do we know who writes the news scripts, obviously Jackie doesn't, so who is it ? Since it was an obvious slur and a blatant lie can somebody at the BBC be held responsible ?
The BBC is showing itself to be merely a propagandist puppet of Westminster. Their day will come.
Yes I heard that "knuckles rapped" comment . Do we know who writes the news scripts, obviously Jackie doesn't, so who is it ? Since it was an obvious slur and a blatant lie can somebody at the BBC be held responsible ?
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2012-02-21 00:36
After watching Newsnight and Ruth getting a clear run to rant unionist trash without a serious challenge - is that enough rope?
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2012-02-20 23:23
They may have a point there.
It seems Alex need not say much nowadays.
The fact of the matter is the anti-independence parties are in such a disarray, that when they speak, they seem to confirm the pro-independence argument for us.
If we had the backing of the MSM and a some sort of semblence of impartiality from the BBC, we would be able to vote tomorrow and wins hands down.
It seems Alex need not say much nowadays.
The fact of the matter is the anti-independence parties are in such a disarray, that when they speak, they seem to confirm the pro-independence argument for us.
If we had the backing of the MSM and a some sort of semblence of impartiality from the BBC, we would be able to vote tomorrow and wins hands down.
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2012-02-20 23:23
Give me a break! Is it no enough that us folks in the North East have to suffer Baker and MacDonald spitting thier bile on TV every other nicht on what passes for news without having to suffer them here as well!Can we no censor them? Or I am off to dark room with a bottle of the hard stuff!
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2012-02-21 16:12
Quoting Hing em high:
Another Horlicks night ?
Give me a break! Is it no enough that us folks in the North East have to suffer Baker and MacDonald spitting thier bile on TV every other nicht on what passes for news without having to suffer them here as well!Can we no censor them? Or I am off to dark room with a bottle of the hard stuff!
Another Horlicks night ?
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2012-02-20 23:26
slightly O/T, the full video of Salmonds speech and Q&A session at LSE is available here;
richmedia.lse.ac.uk/.../...
Well worth watching in its entirety, including the questions.
richmedia.lse.ac.uk/.../...
Well worth watching in its entirety, including the questions.
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2012-02-20 23:31
I am utterly appalled by some of those comments, particularly the canadian/american at the end of that clip.
I actually feel deeply hurt and aggrieved by that.
EDIT>
Sorry, this is meant as a comment on the article rather than RL's link.
I actually feel deeply hurt and aggrieved by that.
EDIT>
Sorry, this is meant as a comment on the article rather than RL's link.
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2012-02-20 23:41
OK - So you know I'm on your side anyway, but hopefully still fairly objective (I'm not Scottish, remember), but I was appalled, yes, appalled by the clip of BBC Question Time in this piece. Absolutely dire performances all round, including that of Dimblebore and as for the bias built into that panel.... sheesh! Not a single Scottish voice to be heard, not even one pro-Union. Although, I'd admit that such a bird is fast becoming a dodo in your neck of the woods.
And to cap it all - this is the self-same programme and the self-same chair who refused Nicola Sturgeon the democratic right, yes, they still do exist Mr Dimbleby, to speak on Scottish matters in a Scotland-based QT.
I've followed your accusations of BBC partiality for some time, nodded wisely, accepted your views, made sympathetic noises, knowing we Welsh echo your opinions, and then moved on. But, hang it all - this takes the biscuit!
So blatant! So ill-informed! So hypocritical!
End of rant.
And to cap it all - this is the self-same programme and the self-same chair who refused Nicola Sturgeon the democratic right, yes, they still do exist Mr Dimbleby, to speak on Scottish matters in a Scotland-based QT.
I've followed your accusations of BBC partiality for some time, nodded wisely, accepted your views, made sympathetic noises, knowing we Welsh echo your opinions, and then moved on. But, hang it all - this takes the biscuit!
So blatant! So ill-informed! So hypocritical!
End of rant.
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2012-02-21 00:08
Quoting Robert Louis:
Thanks. Just watched it. Interesting stuff.
slightly O/T, the full video of Salmonds speech and Q&A session at LSE
Well worth watching in its entirety, including the questions.
Thanks. Just watched it. Interesting stuff.
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2012-02-21 10:26
Absolutely masterful and engaging. No other politician in the UK could have come close to that, and the almost careless ease with which he handled the questions, especially, shows why even the most wily and experienced of the Unionists can't lay a glove on him.
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2012-02-21 10:59
Thanks for that link R L excellent speech and coherent answers..can we send a copy to Willie Rennie
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2012-02-20 23:32
Just more attempts by unionists zealots at Pacific Quay to censor open debate. It will fail because people have cottoned on to such behaviour by the corporation. You sense that a bunker mentality is beginning to become evident at BBC Scotland. They know time is not on their side.
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2012-02-20 23:33
Whilst watching the Question Time clip, my eye's were constantly drawn to the bottom left of the screen to the words "Dim lights".
Say's it all really.
Say's it all really.
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2012-02-20 23:34
I watched the interview on the news and AS was very good. All he said was that in his opinion he thought that it would be good for Aberdeen, but ultimately it would be down to the people of Aberdeen to decide what the outcome is.
He also stated that if(a big "IF") it went to a final say at government level, he would not be allowed to vote on the issue.
He also stated that if(a big "IF") it went to a final say at government level, he would not be allowed to vote on the issue.
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2012-02-20 23:34
Just watched the you tube link above. What a nasty bunch of I'll informed comments. I loved it. Loads of Scots will have seen that.
I also love the unanswered questions tactic, just gives us a chance to keep repeating the answers.
I also love the unanswered questions tactic, just gives us a chance to keep repeating the answers.
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2012-02-20 23:39
Westminster would love to silence the First Minister. I have said for years that Scotland is Denied a voice and its MSM and BBc and ITV that are denying it. No Scottish Six O'Clock News program, denied by Tory Blair,s Westminster goverment it all amounts to censorshop.
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2012-02-20 23:42
Although I don't support the Aberdeen gardens project I absolutely support the right of Alex Salmond or indeed anyone to comment on it.
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2012-02-20 23:49
Exactly. In my opinion, Salmond should do it much more, just to let these clowns know that the voice of democracy will not be silenced by these unionist bullies. Let's be clear, they in cahoots with their ever so obliging BBC are, in trying to silence the democratically elected First Minister, behaving like bullies.
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2012-02-21 00:26
I think a lot of people have overlooked the fact that in tonight's Reporting Scotland piece about the Union Street Gardens issue they returned to Mr Salmond after mr baker had saud his piece and Mr Salmond made it clear he had every right to speak and was not going to be silenced.
So while the BBC could not resist the dig, completely erroneous dig about Trump they did give the FM the last word.
That in itself is quite a sea change for them.
So while the BBC could not resist the dig, completely erroneous dig about Trump they did give the FM the last word.
That in itself is quite a sea change for them.
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2012-02-20 23:44
Richard Baker - cant quantify his worth or will get moderated. For reasons yet unclear his fellow wasters in the city labour group are against the development. Their contribution to city over the years has been selling off council assets at knock down prices. Anyway who cares they will be moving out to Doonies Rare Breed Farm come May
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2012-02-20 23:57
Oh come on Pictavia - you know you want to quantify his worth! The funny part is it would probably be very close to the truth!
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2012-02-20 23:46
I am having trouble figuring out what exactly Salmond said on the issue and what is more recent stuff with him replying to complaints.
With out doubt the Granite Web is a very impressive plan BUT Union Terrace Gardens in my opinion is 100% NOT the place for it.
There are a number of other plans laid out for redeveloping the gardens which are focused on keeping the historical gardens but making them more accessible and making better use of the surrounding area for the public.
To put things into perspective Union Terrace Gardens is not much off the same age as Princes Street Gardens.
Princes Street Gardens has seen a lot of redevelopment and modification over the years but never would anyone dare to suggest filling in the whole thing.
With out doubt the Granite Web is a very impressive plan BUT Union Terrace Gardens in my opinion is 100% NOT the place for it.
There are a number of other plans laid out for redeveloping the gardens which are focused on keeping the historical gardens but making them more accessible and making better use of the surrounding area for the public.
To put things into perspective Union Terrace Gardens is not much off the same age as Princes Street Gardens.
Princes Street Gardens has seen a lot of redevelopment and modification over the years but never would anyone dare to suggest filling in the whole thing.
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2012-02-21 00:28
They have in the past - the not too distant past - suggested putting an shopping mall under it. A not too dissimilar plan was suggested for Union Street Gardens at one point.
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2012-02-21 11:11
The BBC website was able to report his comments properly at one point - 'Mr Salmond said he was impressed with the design but the decision rested with residents.'
That seems quite clear to me. Alex has very diplomatically sat himself on the fence, then the last six words of the above have been conveniently forgotten.
The clip I saw last night did more or less the same thing - cut him off after he said he liked the design, but before he emphasised the people of Aberdeen should decide.
That seems quite clear to me. Alex has very diplomatically sat himself on the fence, then the last six words of the above have been conveniently forgotten.
The clip I saw last night did more or less the same thing - cut him off after he said he liked the design, but before he emphasised the people of Aberdeen should decide.
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2012-02-20 23:48
off topic i know, and apologies...but i think this merits and article on its own...
another reason why UK needs us, and not the other way. I do think resource and water are going to be the most important asset in the next ten years...
bbc.co.uk/.../...
another reason why UK needs us, and not the other way. I do think resource and water are going to be the most important asset in the next ten years...
bbc.co.uk/.../...
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2012-02-21 00:51
I almost feel sorry for those folks in the south who will not be able to water or ice thier blended Scotch. Almost but not quite!
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2012-02-20 23:51
We have not failed to notice have we not that Scottish nationalism and Quebec nationalism are 'bad', whilst 'being-in-it-together-United-Kingdom-nationalism' is 'good'?
For the life of me, I can't see what's good about clinging together whilst the Titanic is heading full speed for that iceberg. Could some of that QT panel enlighten me, please?
On reflection, it may be because we are all in it that that is what makes it comfy for Westminster and its supporters. (I leave you to decide what I mean by 'in it' in the previous sentence...)
For the life of me, I can't see what's good about clinging together whilst the Titanic is heading full speed for that iceberg. Could some of that QT panel enlighten me, please?
On reflection, it may be because we are all in it that that is what makes it comfy for Westminster and its supporters. (I leave you to decide what I mean by 'in it' in the previous sentence...)
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2012-02-20 23:59
Well said. It is interesting how the BBC and unionists keep using the word 'separatism', I just wonder when 4th July comes around how they will describe USA independence say. Will the BBC start calling it 4th July USA separatism day??
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2012-02-21 00:09
You would do good to bear in mind that George Washington, RL, was indeed a separatist, a terrorist even, for deigning to attack those gallant redcoats...
Indeed, I would suggest that following the laws made by Blair at the height of 'the war on terror' that GW was indeed a terrorist and if we are to condone his actions, then we too are guilty of an offence.
Who next? Owain Glyn Dwr, Robert the Bruce, William Wallace - all separatists, all terrorists?
Indeed, I would suggest that following the laws made by Blair at the height of 'the war on terror' that GW was indeed a terrorist and if we are to condone his actions, then we too are guilty of an offence.
Who next? Owain Glyn Dwr, Robert the Bruce, William Wallace - all separatists, all terrorists?
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2012-02-21 11:04
Good point Robert Louis now if someone would ask the unionists. especially Anas sarwar, if they will be celebrating American Separation Day on the 4th of July with our American 'allies' I would be interested in how he/they would answer that.
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2012-02-21 00:41
It's like a bunch of you being chased by a bear - you don't have to out run the bear just one of the others!
That is what the unionst mean by being in it together.
That is what the unionst mean by being in it together.
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2012-02-21 16:20
[quote name="Welsh Sion"]We have not failed to notice have we not that Scottish nationalism and Quebec nationalism are 'bad', whilst 'being-in-it-together-United-Kingdom-nationalism' is 'good'?
The problem with Quebec was that four Indian tribes had " prior claim" to a good chunk of the real estate and the major resource
(Ste. Laurence Seaway) is jointly owned by the USA and Canada.
Totally different from the Scottish situation.
The problem with Quebec was that four Indian tribes had " prior claim" to a good chunk of the real estate and the major resource
(Ste. Laurence Seaway) is jointly owned by the USA and Canada.
Totally different from the Scottish situation.
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2012-02-20 23:55
Richard Baker is a Church of England public school old boy - St Bees, Cumbria, £10,000 - £13,000 a year fees.
He has never been elected by anyone to serve in Scottish Parliament and his only qualification to be Labour's economy spokesperson is that he ran the school tuck shop one afternoon a week.
He has never been elected by anyone to serve in Scottish Parliament and his only qualification to be Labour's economy spokesperson is that he ran the school tuck shop one afternoon a week.
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2012-02-20 23:58
RtS said of Richard Baker: ... His only qualification to be Labour's economy spokesperson is that he ran the school tuck shop one afternoon a week.
Who ate all the pies, then? ;-)
Who ate all the pies, then? ;-)
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2012-02-21 00:00
His other qualification for the post is that the other SLab MSPs would be even less competent.
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2012-02-21 10:32
Or George Gideon Osborne - 2:1 in modern history, then straight into the westminster bubble. How does that qualify him to run the UK economy? - Oh hang on, it doesn't! Which is why he is wrecking it.
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2012-02-21 00:14
Quote:
Well that was certainly a waste of money then wasn't it?
Richard Baker is a Church of England public school old boy - St Bees, Cumbria, £10,000 - £13,000 a year fees.
Well that was certainly a waste of money then wasn't it?
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2012-02-21 13:29
Loved that, must be me, the one who was wrong on the internet, I was rude yesterday on the Independent, so I have apologised nicely and retired. I would not like to be rude and keep people out their bed.
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2012-02-21 00:04
Does anyone know if Dick and his wife Claire are still combining expenses to stay in 5 star hotels in Edinburgh while at Parliament?
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2012-02-21 00:05
In Fife his wife scraped through on the list but enjoys endless coverage in the local newspapers and radio.
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2012-02-21 00:17
Ruth Davidson on Newsnicht saying that the Scotland Bill wouldn't get Royal Assent till 2015!
Either the wummin disnae understand how Westminster is supposed to work, or she and Cameron share a common view as she claims, and that "further devolution" if we vote No will be the Scotland Bill.
Tories speak with forked tongue (again)!
Either the wummin disnae understand how Westminster is supposed to work, or she and Cameron share a common view as she claims, and that "further devolution" if we vote No will be the Scotland Bill.
Tories speak with forked tongue (again)!
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2012-02-21 00:32
from twitter:
Alasdair Stephen@Alasdai rStephenReply
Retweet
So the jam tomorrow is not a preservative - it's just more conservative.
Alasdair Stephen@Alasdai rStephenReply
Retweet
So the jam tomorrow is not a preservative - it's just more conservative.
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2012-02-21 00:18
Campbell is tying her in knots. She's putting up a brave face, but she's in a cleft stick.
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2012-02-21 00:20
I'm sure I heard Master Bun the Baker's Son complain that Mr Salmond should not have commented as his constituency lies outside Aberdeen.
Well, Dickie Bun, I'd remind you that you don't have a constituency at all. You "represent" Dundee and Peterheid as much as you "represent" Aberdeen and you only do this thanks to a very loser-friendly voting system. The SNP gained more votes in North East Scotland than your party, the Tories and the LibDems put together.
Well, Dickie Bun, I'd remind you that you don't have a constituency at all. You "represent" Dundee and Peterheid as much as you "represent" Aberdeen and you only do this thanks to a very loser-friendly voting system. The SNP gained more votes in North East Scotland than your party, the Tories and the LibDems put together.
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2012-02-21 00:25
She says that Calman is just peachy and if it's up to her, that's all we'll get. And it's wonderful, we get control of speed limits and air guns.
She continually said more devolution was something to think about after the referendum, but it's actually Calman, really. But Calman won't be law till 2015 (before or after the general election she didn't say). And we need to look at getting the referendum sooner anyway. (Ruthie baby, that dog will not hunt.)
If the SNP cards are played right, the referendum will come down to a straight choice between independence (properly understood and fleshed out in the White Paper) and Calman.
No contest.
She continually said more devolution was something to think about after the referendum, but it's actually Calman, really. But Calman won't be law till 2015 (before or after the general election she didn't say). And we need to look at getting the referendum sooner anyway. (Ruthie baby, that dog will not hunt.)
If the SNP cards are played right, the referendum will come down to a straight choice between independence (properly understood and fleshed out in the White Paper) and Calman.
No contest.
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2012-02-21 00:32
I think the way it is panning out with cameron's promise of more jam, is that all parties have agreed the status quo is a non starter, the current Scotland bill is also up the chute (As Dave said he will consider increasing the powers of this).
This just leaves Independence and whatever new powers cameron decides to "offer" Scotland.
So we have:-
Independence
or
New Scotland bill/devo enhanced/new devo/devo max/ we are devo. (Are we not men?)
This just leaves Independence and whatever new powers cameron decides to "offer" Scotland.
So we have:-
Independence
or
New Scotland bill/devo enhanced/new devo/devo max/ we are devo. (Are we not men?)
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2012-02-21 01:25
Hahaha Keef.......... THAT takes me back! D_E_V_O
Strangely enough... from right around the time of the last "jam tomorrow" offer!
Strangely enough... from right around the time of the last "jam tomorrow" offer!
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2012-02-21 13:41
Are you THE PerryThe Platypus? A semi aquatic, egg laying mammal of action?
Agent P, we may have a mission for you concerning Doofenbaker in Aberdeen. :D
Agent P, we may have a mission for you concerning Doofenbaker in Aberdeen. :D
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2012-02-21 14:06
Quoting Macart:
Macart i see you have had enough of main stream news and politics coverage , and decided to watch something all together more believable on TV lol.
Are you THE PerryThe PLatypus? A semi aquatic, egg laying mammal of action?
Agent P, we may have a mission for you concerning Doofenbaker in Aberdeen. :D
Macart i see you have had enough of main stream news and politics coverage , and decided to watch something all together more believable on TV lol.
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2012-02-21 00:33
Actually, Campbell could and should have said to her, so will you amend the Scotland Act with the powers you believe should be devolved so that people will know what they're voting for if they vote no? Is autumn 2014 not long enough for you to do that?
Someone will ask that question soon.
Someone will ask that question soon.
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2012-02-21 00:38
We should all be pushing this question 69.
It pushes the argument onto a question of Independence or whatever cameron decides to offer. If he does not spell it out, the poulace will be more inclined to vote for the positive ideas spelled out by Independence.
It pushes the argument onto a question of Independence or whatever cameron decides to offer. If he does not spell it out, the poulace will be more inclined to vote for the positive ideas spelled out by Independence.
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2012-02-21 00:28
Aye, if Alex Salmond stated that it was a beautiful, sunny day in Scotland, Labour would accuse him of showing schadenfreude over bad weather in England.
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2012-02-21 11:12
Is it sunny where you are Jimbo? Can I come over there?
Mind you we'd best get used to it - it will always rain in an independent Scotland.....
Mind you we'd best get used to it - it will always rain in an independent Scotland.....
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2012-02-21 00:28
We still have an enormous mountain to climb though. There's only one person out of my friends that I know that backs independence. They are all still swallowing the LBC/MSM lies and obfuscation, referring to Eck as a 'One Man Band' and a 'separatist'. It's making me very scared folks. I don't want to contemplate failure, but I'm very scared at this time! It shows how effective 300 years of brainwashing have been and what a tough nut we have to crack to persuade 4 million turkeys not to vote for Christmas!
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2012-02-21 00:47
maxstafford
You are correct to be concerned and we should campaign to the last minute as if we need one more vote.
The real negative material and threats have yet to come - this is just the phoney war.
You are correct to be concerned and we should campaign to the last minute as if we need one more vote.
The real negative material and threats have yet to come - this is just the phoney war.
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2012-02-21 00:57
Don't you live on the 'wrong side of the border' as you posted a while ago? The media in your area will be different to what we have up here in the North East.
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2012-02-21 06:49
i woud say in my area of highland Perthshire I find very few people against independence.. However There are quite a few who need to be fully convinced, but are not against the idea.
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2012-02-21 10:10
Though not in Scotland, from contacts I'd say there's whole sectors of conventional women who fully identify with the "Salmond as Hitler" and comparisons and see independence as a kind of collective lunacy.
That's not about to change for social and demographic reasons. Since they self-reinforce, don't see how you can get to them. Does anyone resident in Scotland know what I mean?
That's not about to change for social and demographic reasons. Since they self-reinforce, don't see how you can get to them. Does anyone resident in Scotland know what I mean?
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2012-02-21 13:33
Would have to say that I have found a lack of interest in Politics in many women of my acquaintance and these are the ones we have to convince. Also people of retirement age and older who still cleave to the idea of all being together. We need to explain to them what this all means and how it will affect them.
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2012-02-21 18:16
I'd even say they see politics as conniving, and the older set had parents who fought in the war, and were brought up to see England as Queen and Country and Scotland as (yes!) wee, poor and stupid.
I expect that's where the nationalism (small n) of sport comes in for many men, what Scottish symbol can women take pride in? The Pandas?
I expect that's where the nationalism (small n) of sport comes in for many men, what Scottish symbol can women take pride in? The Pandas?
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2012-02-21 00:32
Unionists still repeat their mantra that SNP has not spelt out what independence means and not one journalist or broadcaster has ever asked them if they have read Your Scotland Your Future at www.scotlandforward.net/.
O/T No Scottish Newspapers featured on Newsnight so can't be any negative headlines.
O/T No Scottish Newspapers featured on Newsnight so can't be any negative headlines.
#
2012-02-21 11:14
I've been trying to point posters on the Herald website to that but they just bin my comments. No wonder there's so much confusion when the MSM are blocking the document with all the answers in it!
#
2012-02-21 00:36
I see wee Willie Rennie describing Murdoch's praise of Salmond as "the endorsement every politician dreads".
Absolutely no need for you to feel any dread then Willie, you can rest easy. In the world of politics no-one has a clue who you are or more pertinently, why.
Incidentally is that phone box carpeted or do the 5 of you prefer the old concrete underfoot?
Absolutely no need for you to feel any dread then Willie, you can rest easy. In the world of politics no-one has a clue who you are or more pertinently, why.
Incidentally is that phone box carpeted or do the 5 of you prefer the old concrete underfoot?
#
2012-02-21 01:01
I suspect Rennie is rather concerned that the Sun will influence the voters towards Independence. The Scottish Sun for a few months now has reported the political news up here rather differently than the English version of the paper. Much more balanced than I had expected.
#
2012-02-21 00:46
That's the least of our worries. In an independent Scotland no-one will have any elbows or knee-caps and our dogs will start to resemble mice.
#
2012-02-21 00:51
Quote in the article from the minister:
Quote:
Fancy saying they are able to maintain border controls when the department charged with enforcing the controls has been judged 'not fit for purpose'
telegraph.co.uk/.../...
Quote:
“The fact that the UK has an opt-out from Schengen means that we are able to maintain the border controls that you don't have on the borders between Schengen countries.”
Fancy saying they are able to maintain border controls when the department charged with enforcing the controls has been judged 'not fit for purpose'
telegraph.co.uk/.../...
#
2012-02-21 00:50
Unmitigated tripe! Time to rent a Darkened Warehouse, methinks, so we can all fit in.
But perhaps passport controls won't be a problem considering what a mess the UKBA has made of them already.
But perhaps passport controls won't be a problem considering what a mess the UKBA has made of them already.
#
2012-02-21 00:54
Oh boy!
I'll get onto the architects and contractors in the morning!
They are so used to visiting "The Darkened Room" I don't even have to tell them where to come any more. :D
I'll get onto the architects and contractors in the morning!
They are so used to visiting "The Darkened Room" I don't even have to tell them where to come any more. :D
#
2012-02-21 11:18
Great plan Edna. At this rate we'll need a Darkened Warehouse in every part of Scotland, so great will the demand be. I'm getting my duvet and pillows packed, think I might have to have an extended stay.
How often are they going to recycle this passport tripe? Can no-one stop them?
How often are they going to recycle this passport tripe? Can no-one stop them?
#
2012-02-21 14:02
Quoting Wee-Scamp:
I only got as far as the photo then closed the window down.
I've read it all now.....
telegraph.co.uk/.../...
I only got as far as the photo then closed the window down.
#
2012-02-21 00:48
I'm not so sure that separation is such a bad term to use in regard to Scotland's relationship with the UK.
Today we are told that the Border Agency may have allowed 500,000 people into the country without processing them adequately. Then there were was the corruption in Westminster over expenses, corruption in the London press over phone hacking, corruption in the metropolitan police over illegal passing of information to the papers, irregularities in HMRC over the tax take from large companies,the imposition of dictats including Calman on Scotland by the Westminster Government and bias in the state broadcaster, to name but a few.
The Westminster Government is not fit for purpose.
Isn't separation for Scotland exactly what is needed?
Today we are told that the Border Agency may have allowed 500,000 people into the country without processing them adequately. Then there were was the corruption in Westminster over expenses, corruption in the London press over phone hacking, corruption in the metropolitan police over illegal passing of information to the papers, irregularities in HMRC over the tax take from large companies,the imposition of dictats including Calman on Scotland by the Westminster Government and bias in the state broadcaster, to name but a few.
The Westminster Government is not fit for purpose.
Isn't separation for Scotland exactly what is needed?
#
2012-02-21 01:04
Quoting J Wil:
No, but independence is.
Isn't separation for Scotland exactly what is needed?
No, but independence is.
#
2012-02-21 18:22
Maybe independentists should adopt the doom-laden "separation", maybe it would suck the bile out of it by being continually used in positive contexts.
#
2012-02-21 18:30
How about referring to ourselves as Independentists , Separationists and Patriots.
The U.K. would end up with the biggest mass suicide pact in the world I think. :D
The U.K. would end up with the biggest mass suicide pact in the world I think. :D
#
2012-02-21 00:50
What an image from murdoch
Alex Salmond clearly most brilliant politician in U.K. Gave Cameron back of his hand this week. Loved by Scots
Gave Cameron back of his hand this week.
I just love that... absolutely brilliant even if it was murdoch who coined it.
Alex Salmond clearly most brilliant politician in U.K. Gave Cameron back of his hand this week. Loved by Scots
Gave Cameron back of his hand this week.
I just love that... absolutely brilliant even if it was murdoch who coined it.
#
2012-02-21 01:04
Quoting J Wil:
No need for that warning but I just loved the statement.
If the sun were to come out in favour of Independence then I dont see how it can do the cause any harm. If they keep on spouting the negatives / scares then what's different? but if they were to just redress the balance a bit then I don't see what harm that would do.
We can read it and criticise it as this site does now.
I would be a bit cautious about having Murdoch's backing.
No need for that warning but I just loved the statement.
If the sun were to come out in favour of Independence then I dont see how it can do the cause any harm. If they keep on spouting the negatives / scares then what's different? but if they were to just redress the balance a bit then I don't see what harm that would do.
We can read it and criticise it as this site does now.
#
2012-02-21 01:11
I think I agree with the statement from Jeff Breslin:
Jeff Breslin@jeffbre sReply
Anyone thinking that Rupert Murdoch backing independence is bad news for the SNP needs their head examined.
Jeff Breslin@jeffbre sReply
Anyone thinking that Rupert Murdoch backing independence is bad news for the SNP needs their head examined.
#
2012-02-21 01:16
I see the introduction of the Sunday Sun as Murdoch having another go at weilding his influence in the UK political system.
Not so long ago it seemed that the political parties were relieved that they did not have to go forelock tugging to him any more.
His foot should be kept well and truly out of the door.
His cleanup of the UK newspapers has more to do with the fact that he can be prosecuted in the US for any illegality he has allowed in other countries, according to American law. Also, do we really want to give him a road into taking over 100% of BSKYB again. We know the Tories were keen on that.
Not so long ago it seemed that the political parties were relieved that they did not have to go forelock tugging to him any more.
His foot should be kept well and truly out of the door.
His cleanup of the UK newspapers has more to do with the fact that he can be prosecuted in the US for any illegality he has allowed in other countries, according to American law. Also, do we really want to give him a road into taking over 100% of BSKYB again. We know the Tories were keen on that.
#
2012-02-21 07:02
i agree, and its now looking like they (the sun) are now sittting on the fence waiting for polls to indicate a majority for independence. A phrase i read in the sun yesterday signafied this, not an exact quote, but it went something like (talking about independence) at the end of the day it might just come down to pounds and pence, but that alone is not a good reason for a marraige.
If the sun were to switch to a pro independence stance, it would be in the bag. Workies carry thei papers around all day, they only see glimpses of the BBC.
If the sun were to switch to a pro independence stance, it would be in the bag. Workies carry thei papers around all day, they only see glimpses of the BBC.
#
2012-02-21 09:34
Given Murdoch's antipathy towards The BBC I can't wait for the day that The Scottish Sun starts its asault and exposure of the bias at EBC W--gie.
Much as I abhor Murdoch and what he has done to the UK media regarding his praise of Eck and apparent support for Independence I think we should adopt the stance of 'my enemy's enemy is my friend'.
Much as I abhor Murdoch and what he has done to the UK media regarding his praise of Eck and apparent support for Independence I think we should adopt the stance of 'my enemy's enemy is my friend'.
#
2012-02-21 14:19
Quoting gus1940:
While I agree in principle with the saying you quote in your final paragraph, I would like to add a wee cautionary note, namely a saying my granny from the Borders was fond of, "If ye sup wi' the deil, tak a lang spoon wi' ye!" Mind you, she used to say the same about the "Fly Fifers".
Given Murdoch's antipathy towards The BBC I can't wait for the day that The Scottish Sun starts its asault and exposure of the bias at EBC W--gie.
Much as I abhor Murdoch and what he has done to the UK media regarding his praise of Eck and apparent support for Independence I think we should adopt the stance of 'my enemy's enemy is my friend'.
While I agree in principle with the saying you quote in your final paragraph, I would like to add a wee cautionary note, namely a saying my granny from the Borders was fond of, "If ye sup wi' the deil, tak a lang spoon wi' ye!" Mind you, she used to say the same about the "Fly Fifers".
#
2012-02-21 10:17
Excuse my ignorance, but how is a firm with some employees arrested for allegedly criminal acts allowed to start up a new public medium?
Is there no licensing arrangement for the press in the UK? If so, how is he allowed to get away with it? If not, why not? Would that interfere with the right to free speech?
Is there no licensing arrangement for the press in the UK? If so, how is he allowed to get away with it? If not, why not? Would that interfere with the right to free speech?
#
2012-02-21 18:24
No licence is required for print or online news sources in the UK. If there were, I doubt that Newsnet would have got one!
#
2012-02-21 00:56
Alex Salmond won his Aberdeenshire East with 19,533 votes, giving him a 15,295 majority.
Richard Baker wasn't exactly elected, he was a Labour & Unionist Party list member.
Who has the most right to express an opinion?
VOTE YES
Richard Baker wasn't exactly elected, he was a Labour & Unionist Party list member.
Who has the most right to express an opinion?
VOTE YES
#
2012-02-21 01:00
I'm amazed Ruth Davidson was able to keep a straight face when she told Campbell that among the fantastic new powers coming to Scotland in the Scotland Bill was the power over air rifles and traffic speed.
The sort of powers a real parliament might pass on to a Parish Council.
For a real Parliament VOTE YES.
The sort of powers a real parliament might pass on to a Parish Council.
For a real Parliament VOTE YES.
#
2012-02-21 01:02
Actually the Lords have altered those powers we wont get them without consultation and agreement from Westminster AFTER the bill becomes law.
#
2012-02-21 01:05
A transfer of powers doesn't require legislation. If there is clear agreement between parliaments powers can be transfered immediately. What we have is distraction again.
#
2012-02-21 01:09
Correct. Under the existing Scotland Act, any powers can be transferred to (or from) Scotland via a section 30 order. It only requires agreement between Holyrood and both Houses of the UK Parliament.
#
2012-02-21 01:17
I think oldnat correct me if I am wrong. Tomorrow they could halt the Scotland Bill and transfer minimal powers as an act of good will towards future negotiations. The fact they make vague promises post 2014 clearly shows deceit.
#
2012-02-21 01:23
You are quite right. The Scotland Bill is wholly unnecessary. All that is required is for an order transferring powers to be laid before either Parliament, and approved by both.
I have a suspicion that such an order might be laid before the Scottish Parliament at an appropriate time before the referendum. The UK Parliament would then have to specifically reject Scotland getting those "Devo Max" powers.
I have a suspicion that such an order might be laid before the Scottish Parliament at an appropriate time before the referendum. The UK Parliament would then have to specifically reject Scotland getting those "Devo Max" powers.
#
2012-02-21 01:23
oldnat
Agreed and is that not how they were proposing to make 'legal' the referendum.
Agreed and is that not how they were proposing to make 'legal' the referendum.
#
2012-02-21 01:24
For those with insomniacial tendencies here are a few reasons FOR the Independence of Scotland.
guardian.co.uk/.../...
heraldscotland.com/.../...
dailymail.co.uk/.../...
scotsman.com/.../...
Here's the Hootsmon's coverage of a story covered elsewhere from the Telegraph.
scotsman.com/.../...
guardian.co.uk/.../...
heraldscotland.com/.../...
dailymail.co.uk/.../...
scotsman.com/.../...
Here's the Hootsmon's coverage of a story covered elsewhere from the Telegraph.
scotsman.com/.../...
#
2012-02-21 01:28
Thanks Arbroath 1320.
Is it me or has the Hootsmon's censors allowed a half decent photo of oor jowly one to slip through on your first hootsmon link?
Is it me or has the Hootsmon's censors allowed a half decent photo of oor jowly one to slip through on your first hootsmon link?
#
2012-02-21 01:31
Yeah. I think it was slipped through under the radar while the Hootsmon censors were not looking. Perhaps they were still drooling over the picture of Lard Forsythe from the day before. :D
#
2012-02-21 01:34
I notice in that article that Alex again strongly demands that cameron spells out in detail what he is offering in his jam tomorrow scheme.
I think everyone should not let this slip and continue to demand that he spell it out along with a timetable. We must force this to the forefront of the campaign.
I think everyone should not let this slip and continue to demand that he spell it out along with a timetable. We must force this to the forefront of the campaign.
#
2012-02-21 01:35
From the scotsman...
Good stuff from Mr Salmond.....
He dubbed the two Tory grandees “the Bourbons of Scottish politics – they have ‘learned nothing and forgotten nothing’” – a reference to the European dynasty that was repeatedly overthrown and restored to the thrones of nations such as France, Italy and Spain between the 16th and the 18th centuries.
Cheers Arbroath1320 for the links
Good stuff from Mr Salmond.....
He dubbed the two Tory grandees “the Bourbons of Scottish politics – they have ‘learned nothing and forgotten nothing’” – a reference to the European dynasty that was repeatedly overthrown and restored to the thrones of nations such as France, Italy and Spain between the 16th and the 18th centuries.
Cheers Arbroath1320 for the links
#
2012-02-21 10:19
Was? We've still got them in Spain, though judging from some recent revelations of the present incumbent's murky past, not for much longer.
#
2012-02-21 09:24
"...they want our water!"
Already it seems like a given that it will be available whenever they can organize it. Proof that England is more and more dependent on Scotland and not the other way round?
Already it seems like a given that it will be available whenever they can organize it. Proof that England is more and more dependent on Scotland and not the other way round?
#
2012-02-21 20:46
Last summer, Boris the london Mayor said he wanted pipes laid from Scotland so Londinium would have an endless supply of water.
If they want it, they must pay for it.
If they want it, they must pay for it.
#
2012-02-21 01:48
As a follow up to the now infamous quote "There are more pandas than Tory M.P.'s" could we be working towards a new quote?
local.stv.tv/.../...
Could we soon be saying "There are more pandas than Tory M.P.'s AND Lib/Dem M.S.P.'s" :D
local.stv.tv/.../...
Could we soon be saying "There are more pandas than Tory M.P.'s AND Lib/Dem M.S.P.'s" :D
#
2012-02-21 04:41
I could have swore there was a few more posts after "derek".
I recall seeing one from oldnat. Have they been removed for a reason?
I recall seeing one from oldnat. Have they been removed for a reason?
#
2012-02-21 05:52
Keef
I have been on this site and this thread for a while and I have not seen any post’s since derek. In fact I was going to query derek’s cryptic comment but before I did the penny dropped.
OT
North handed £5.3m lifeline to give jobless fresh chance
pressandjournal.co.uk/.../...
“ Schemes to help hundreds of people get back into work and boost economic growth in the north are to be handed a £5.3million lifeline.
The European Structural Fund money will be shared by 15 schemes across the region for training for people who find it hard to get a job and those at risk of redundancy. “
I have been on this site and this thread for a while and I have not seen any post’s since derek. In fact I was going to query derek’s cryptic comment but before I did the penny dropped.
OT
North handed £5.3m lifeline to give jobless fresh chance
pressandjournal.co.uk/.../...
“ Schemes to help hundreds of people get back into work and boost economic growth in the north are to be handed a £5.3million lifeline.
The European Structural Fund money will be shared by 15 schemes across the region for training for people who find it hard to get a job and those at risk of redundancy. “
#
2012-02-21 06:38
I'm sure a saw a couple of posts discussing hospital staffing levels Roll on 2011.
Perhaps I'm losing it.
Perhaps I'm losing it.
#
2012-02-21 07:03
O/T I actively promote independence via facebook, recently i was asked a question. " After inependence will i have to travel to carlisle to put the lottery on ? " I thought this must be another scare story, bejesus where do these people come from!
#
2012-02-21 07:33
Quoting Tattie-bogle:
Yes but these questions however trivial require a consistent answer.
On the subject of "gotcha" questions the guys on this site are more than capable of thinking of their own ones. I have one that I would like to pass on to the SNP. Where is the best address to direct it so as to make sure they have an answer ready?
While some questions will seem trivial to political anaraks the truth is most people are not that interested in politics.
O/T I actively promote independence via facebook, recently i was asked a question. " After inependence will i have to travel to carlisle to put the lottery on ? " I thought this must be another scare story, bejesus where do these people come from!
Yes but these questions however trivial require a consistent answer.
On the subject of "gotcha" questions the guys on this site are more than capable of thinking of their own ones. I have one that I would like to pass on to the SNP. Where is the best address to direct it so as to make sure they have an answer ready?
While some questions will seem trivial to political anaraks the truth is most people are not that interested in politics.
#
2012-02-21 07:23
Baker did not put himself forward as a candidate in any seat in the NE.
Amongst one of his best gaffes was when as Labours crime spokesman he did not know how many police forces there were in Scotland.
Thankfully he doesn't seem to have the same free access to Aberdeen journals that he once had.
Amongst one of his best gaffes was when as Labours crime spokesman he did not know how many police forces there were in Scotland.
Thankfully he doesn't seem to have the same free access to Aberdeen journals that he once had.
#
2012-02-21 08:48
Baker is attrocious, I take it he got in as a list MSP?
It would be interesting to hear what he wants for Aberdeen?
Ian Wood is puting something like £50 m of free money to the project!!
It would be interesting to hear what he wants for Aberdeen?
Ian Wood is puting something like £50 m of free money to the project!!
#
2012-02-21 08:55
Straight from the horse’s mouth:
Baker welcomes progress on new Forth Crossing
www.richardbakermsp.org.uk/.../
"Delaying large-scale infrastructure projects, that have potential to unlock thousands of jobs, is that last thing we need when unemployment continues to rise faster here in Scotland than the rest of the UK."
I don’t suppose he can have strong word in Lament’s ear about her recent action when pushing for delays, to the Forth crossing, on the basis of dodgy sastistics - yet again.
One can only hope, but I won’t hold my breath.
Baker welcomes progress on new Forth Crossing
www.richardbakermsp.org.uk/.../
"Delaying large-scale infrastructure projects, that have potential to unlock thousands of jobs, is that last thing we need when unemployment continues to rise faster here in Scotland than the rest of the UK."
I don’t suppose he can have strong word in Lament’s ear about her recent action when pushing for delays, to the Forth crossing, on the basis of dodgy sastistics - yet again.
One can only hope, but I won’t hold my breath.
#
2012-02-21 09:18
Never mind, will Alec be allowed to comment on Boris's beady eye focusing on Scotland's water??
#
2012-02-21 09:32
If you want to expose the BBCs shenanigans, all that needs to be done is for a Scottish minister to walk out of a political show if they are denied the chance to rebuy. That would concentrate the monds completely!
#
2012-02-21 09:40
Richard Baker is good, he's worth his weight in votes!
Will the Don's be changing the name of this Union Street Gardens?
Will the Don's be changing the name of this Union Street Gardens?
#
2012-02-21 09:42
Last night the STV news had a news item where some Westminster government politician was allowed free rein to make ridiculous claims that Scotland would not automatically gain entry to the EC in the event of its independence.
There was no-one from the SNP interviewed to counter the claims but just a very brief statement from the SNP which was read out saying that the claims were nonsense.
Now I ask why was there no-one actually interviewed on TV from the SNP instead of the read out statement in response?
As far as I can see this appears to be part of a pattern and we should know whether it was because the SNP couldn't be bothered or was it because STV want to show a one-sided biased item on the SNP?
There was no-one from the SNP interviewed to counter the claims but just a very brief statement from the SNP which was read out saying that the claims were nonsense.
Now I ask why was there no-one actually interviewed on TV from the SNP instead of the read out statement in response?
As far as I can see this appears to be part of a pattern and we should know whether it was because the SNP couldn't be bothered or was it because STV want to show a one-sided biased item on the SNP?
#
2012-02-21 10:01
Newsnight Scotland are about to save money by abandoning anchors and giving the program over entirely to Prof. Curtice. That way he can invite all his Labour chums to the sutdio, regularly to top up their appearance fee's. When its reluctantly necessary to interview these troublesome SNP people, well we can save the appearance fee by bringing them in on a dodgy video link which we can always edit and manipulate later over a few drinks.
#
2012-02-21 10:08
OT
I read the following link from Arby in a comment yesterday.
Scottish independence: Spectre of border controls raised by top Tory
scotsman.com/.../...
“ The UK’s minister for Europe has issued a stark warning that an independent Scotland may need passport controls at its border with England. “
Today we have this:
May admits 500,000 entered UK without full security checks
independent.co.uk/.../...
“ The UK Border Agency is to be stripped of its enforcement powers after an investigation uncovered a catalogue of failures that allowed hundreds of thousands of people into the country without adequate checks. “
What a bag of neeps they are. They couldn’t run the proverbial ‘Brewery Do’.
I read the following link from Arby in a comment yesterday.
Scottish independence: Spectre of border controls raised by top Tory
scotsman.com/.../...
“ The UK’s minister for Europe has issued a stark warning that an independent Scotland may need passport controls at its border with England. “
Today we have this:
May admits 500,000 entered UK without full security checks
independent.co.uk/.../...
“ The UK Border Agency is to be stripped of its enforcement powers after an investigation uncovered a catalogue of failures that allowed hundreds of thousands of people into the country without adequate checks. “
What a bag of neeps they are. They couldn’t run the proverbial ‘Brewery Do’.
#
2012-02-21 20:14
Arbroath1320
“ Roll_On, I wouldn't even let them any where near the proverbial Brewery do! :D “
Aye Arby I agree but I will have to make an apology - I have also insulted Neep’s.
Guess it’s the darkened room for me.
“ Roll_On, I wouldn't even let them any where near the proverbial Brewery do! :D “
Aye Arby I agree but I will have to make an apology - I have also insulted Neep’s.
Guess it’s the darkened room for me.
#
2012-02-21 10:44
I kind-of visualise the Labour Party in Scotland as a company of circus clowns, running around in over-sized shoes, painted faces and driving child-like cars that explode apart at any moment.
In the case of Baker; facepaint not required. He reminds me of that effete vicar in Dad's Army.
It would be hilarious if the danger of them running anything had completely diminished.
What makes matters worse, is that they are now vying with the Lib Dumbs to be the Tory's Little Helpers.
In the case of Baker; facepaint not required. He reminds me of that effete vicar in Dad's Army.
It would be hilarious if the danger of them running anything had completely diminished.
What makes matters worse, is that they are now vying with the Lib Dumbs to be the Tory's Little Helpers.
#
2012-02-21 10:55
Here's where me and the SNP don't see eye to eye.
I do not think it is right for the first minister to lend support to what is a very controversial project in Aberdeen. THere is a huge propaganda war being waged upon the people of Aberdeen byt he supporters of this project. THere is a wrongness about the whole thing, and I don't think it reflects well on Alex Salmond to get involved.
I don't agree with any of the three major projects that are under way in Aberdeen/Shire. Not necessarily beccause they are bad in themselves, but because they all have an element of "wrongness" about them.
THe three projects are the City Gardens project, the Donald Trump golf course and the Aberdeen Western Peripheral Route.
Here's why I don't support them (or the local SNP) who do support them.
The City Gardens project is not just about "upgrading" the very unique (although somewhat run-down through lack of investment) Victorian Gardens. It is completely mixed up with a Stewart Milne project to re-develop the Triple Kirks building. The problem is that he has no-where (except the Gardens) to put his car parking for this development. THere was a superb scheme in place to re-vamp the gardens and build a new arts centre in the gardens, problem was that is this scheme had gone ahead it would have caused the Triple Kirks project problems. THat is when the external interference appeared and scotched the arts centre scheme. How convenient.
THe Trump project, while started by McConnell, was rejected by the local planning comittee. I believe that this was quite correct. Trump's development has trashed an SSSI and should not have been allowed to do so. I did not agree with the Scottish Governments calling in and over-riding of the planning committee's decision. THat was wrong. As it turns out we find now (too late some would say) that Trump is not a nice person. If people had done some homework before fawning over his wallet they might have seen him for what he is.
As for the AWPR, Tavish Scott bent and broke every rule in the infrastructure planning procedures and they attempted to steamroller the project through in spite of its shortcomings and downright illegal choice of route. I had hoped that the SNP would recognise this and have a re-think, but no, they decided in their wisdom to continue with they bully-ing tactics begun by Tavish and Transport Scotland.
Just because Eck decides to support a project doesn't make it right. All of these North Esat projects have an element of wrong-ness about them and it would do the First Minister no harm to stay at arms length from such controversial plans.
I do not think it is right for the first minister to lend support to what is a very controversial project in Aberdeen. THere is a huge propaganda war being waged upon the people of Aberdeen byt he supporters of this project. THere is a wrongness about the whole thing, and I don't think it reflects well on Alex Salmond to get involved.
I don't agree with any of the three major projects that are under way in Aberdeen/Shire. Not necessarily beccause they are bad in themselves, but because they all have an element of "wrongness" about them.
THe three projects are the City Gardens project, the Donald Trump golf course and the Aberdeen Western Peripheral Route.
Here's why I don't support them (or the local SNP) who do support them.
The City Gardens project is not just about "upgrading" the very unique (although somewhat run-down through lack of investment) Victorian Gardens. It is completely mixed up with a Stewart Milne project to re-develop the Triple Kirks building. The problem is that he has no-where (except the Gardens) to put his car parking for this development. THere was a superb scheme in place to re-vamp the gardens and build a new arts centre in the gardens, problem was that is this scheme had gone ahead it would have caused the Triple Kirks project problems. THat is when the external interference appeared and scotched the arts centre scheme. How convenient.
THe Trump project, while started by McConnell, was rejected by the local planning comittee. I believe that this was quite correct. Trump's development has trashed an SSSI and should not have been allowed to do so. I did not agree with the Scottish Governments calling in and over-riding of the planning committee's decision. THat was wrong. As it turns out we find now (too late some would say) that Trump is not a nice person. If people had done some homework before fawning over his wallet they might have seen him for what he is.
As for the AWPR, Tavish Scott bent and broke every rule in the infrastructure planning procedures and they attempted to steamroller the project through in spite of its shortcomings and downright illegal choice of route. I had hoped that the SNP would recognise this and have a re-think, but no, they decided in their wisdom to continue with they bully-ing tactics begun by Tavish and Transport Scotland.
Just because Eck decides to support a project doesn't make it right. All of these North Esat projects have an element of wrong-ness about them and it would do the First Minister no harm to stay at arms length from such controversial plans.
#
2012-02-21 11:12
I thought the FM was an MSP in that neck of the woods?
He's also criticised for expressing an opinion on the Rangers debacle.
If he said nothing on anything remotely controversial, he would also find himself pilloried. It's a no-win situation.
Back to the title of this thread!
He's also criticised for expressing an opinion on the Rangers debacle.
If he said nothing on anything remotely controversial, he would also find himself pilloried. It's a no-win situation.
Back to the title of this thread!
#
2012-02-21 11:44
He may be entitled to his opinion cokynutjoe, but I think it woud be wiser to keep his own counsel on some things. I, for example, am beginning to think that Eck, like most politicians, can't see past a fat wallet.
I don't think that does the cause any good whatsoever.
I don't think that does the cause any good whatsoever.
#
2012-02-21 12:36
If AS was only interested in a fat wallet he would have pursued a career in the media or British politics.
As for parochial controversies, I never heard so much nonsense spoken as the furore generated over some sand dunes, and Union Street Gardens was a coup last time I looked at it.
You can just be a wee bit self obsessed in Aberdeen. One recalls the headlines in the P & J when the Titanic sunk, "North East Man Lost At Sea!"
As for parochial controversies, I never heard so much nonsense spoken as the furore generated over some sand dunes, and Union Street Gardens was a coup last time I looked at it.
You can just be a wee bit self obsessed in Aberdeen. One recalls the headlines in the P & J when the Titanic sunk, "North East Man Lost At Sea!"
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2012-02-21 12:55
cokynutjoe
"If AS was only interested in a fat wallet he would have pursued a career in the media or British politics."
Like Tony Blair or Gordon Brown perhaps?
Just because Eck is "for independence" I don't automatically assume he isn't interested in his own well-being too. He is after all a politician, and an extremely competant one too!
I'm not from Aberdeen, so not self obsessed about parocial controversies.
Those |"sand dunes" happenned to be an SSSI. Not a building site.
Union Street is a "coup" thanks to some awful decisions by a bunch of self-serving local politicians and business people who happen to be the same ones that are supporting the City Gardens project.
"If AS was only interested in a fat wallet he would have pursued a career in the media or British politics."
Like Tony Blair or Gordon Brown perhaps?
Just because Eck is "for independence" I don't automatically assume he isn't interested in his own well-being too. He is after all a politician, and an extremely competant one too!
I'm not from Aberdeen, so not self obsessed about parocial controversies.
Those |"sand dunes" happenned to be an SSSI. Not a building site.
Union Street is a "coup" thanks to some awful decisions by a bunch of self-serving local politicians and business people who happen to be the same ones that are supporting the City Gardens project.
#
2012-02-21 13:01
Exactly like Blair or Brown, had self interest been his only goal.
As for the self-serving business people, there is a Mr Wood who is prepared to put his cash where his mouth is and donate millions to this project.
Not a building site no, some sand dunes!
As for the self-serving business people, there is a Mr Wood who is prepared to put his cash where his mouth is and donate millions to this project.
Not a building site no, some sand dunes!
#
2012-02-21 13:32
Mr Wood is prepared to allow (encourage?) a bankrupt Aberdeen council to hock itself even further to provide a garden in the heart of the city to replace a garden at the heart of the city. The council can't even afford satisfactory care for the elderly or education for the young FFS! And what was wrong with the proposal for an arts centre in the existing gardens? It didn't suit Stewart Milne is what I think. That's why Wood scotched the arts centre plan. Nothing to do with his largesse. The arts centre was fully funded by money they had already raised. Planning permission was given. Then Wood came along. Go figure.
Not some sand dunes now.. a building site.
Not some sand dunes now.. a building site.
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2012-02-21 13:39
I`m relaxed about Salmond expressing his view,if as others have said it backfires then i`ll be quite happy,however i can see the wood from the trees.
To have the complete gratification of Aberdonians, all our generous benefactor needs do is use his millions to create his vision where St Nicholas House stands, he`ll have a statue as big as he wants in his memory for eradicating that eyesore.
He has a grand plan in the wrong location.
To have the complete gratification of Aberdonians, all our generous benefactor needs do is use his millions to create his vision where St Nicholas House stands, he`ll have a statue as big as he wants in his memory for eradicating that eyesore.
He has a grand plan in the wrong location.
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2012-02-21 20:12
Quoting X_Sticks:
aberdeenshire.gov.uk/.../...
aberdeenshire.gov.uk/.../...
The overwhelming body of local opinion was for the Golf development. Would you have them silenced to satisfy the personal agenda of one Mr Ford. Are you he?
Would you go to Auchterarder and tell the people that James Braid wrecked the landscape there, when he designed and built the award winning golf courses of Gleneagles that sustains the local economy?
Are you suggesting that all of Scotland's links courses be torn up and allowed to return to wilderness again, despite them bringing in millions in trade each year?
Are you suggesting that the local chamber of commerce and the local trades and business people in Aberdeen and Menie are wrong in supporting this development?
Brora, Golspie, Dornoch, Fortrose, Nairn, Moray, Fraseburgh, Cruden Bay, Royal Aberdeen, Montrose, Arbroath, Monifeith, Panmure, Elie, Crail, St Andrews, Kilspindle, Dunbar, Leven, Musselburgh x2, Longniddrie, Kilspindle, Craigelaw, Lufness, Gullane, Muirfield, North Berwick, Glen, Whitekirk, Winterfield, Dunbar, Troon, Prestwick, Largs, Turnberry (Ailsa’s lighthouse hole is one of the most photographed in the world. Even if you’re not playing it, take a look. The rocks are 390 million years old and from the green you can see the remains of Robert the Bruce’s castle.)
The above places all depend on Golf to bring much needed trade and commerce to their areas, are you seriosly suggesting that it was wrong to build these links courses also?
I have played and worked on several of Scotlands top courses, and I can tell you that the stewardship of the land in and around these courses could not be in better hands. At Luss on Loch Lomond they employed a proffessor to advise them how to best preserve the environment and cater for the local wildlife, they have done a sepctacular job. Golf course design and managment is one of the few land based activities that goes to such lengths to preserve and encourage the local wild life and it's habitats.
To read some of the hysterical nonsense about the trump development you would think that Alex Salmond and Donald Trump were personally bulldozing Aberdeen shire in to the North Sea whilst eating live babies.
The Menie estate ill be improved by the golf course which will protect the environment and encourage biodiversity. It will genrate jobs and local commerce, in an area neglected for to long. Previous to that it was a wind blown dump, neglected and unproductive. For the record no SSSI has been wiped out. The newts and butterflies and orchids are perfectly safe. This was a campaign by one obsessed councillor who paid the price for his personal crusade.
Golf and Scotland are synonomous. Scotland needs to tell the world we are open for business, not a wee parochial backwater, that discourages innovation and investment. Jack McConnel the Labour FM obviously agreed as he was the first to ride on Trumps chopper.
cokynutjoe
"If AS was only interested in a fat wallet he would have pursued a career in the media or British politics."
Like Tony Blair or Gordon Brown perhaps?
Just because Eck is "for independence" I don't automatically assume he isn't interested in his own well-being too. He is after all a politician, and an extremely competant one too!
I'm not from Aberdeen, so not self obsessed about parocial controversies.
Those |"sand dunes" happenned to be an SSSI. Not a building site.
Union Street is a "coup" thanks to some awful decisions by a bunch of self-serving local politicians and business people who happen to be the same ones that are supporting the City Gardens project.
aberdeenshire.gov.uk/.../...
aberdeenshire.gov.uk/.../...
The overwhelming body of local opinion was for the Golf development. Would you have them silenced to satisfy the personal agenda of one Mr Ford. Are you he?
Would you go to Auchterarder and tell the people that James Braid wrecked the landscape there, when he designed and built the award winning golf courses of Gleneagles that sustains the local economy?
Are you suggesting that all of Scotland's links courses be torn up and allowed to return to wilderness again, despite them bringing in millions in trade each year?
Are you suggesting that the local chamber of commerce and the local trades and business people in Aberdeen and Menie are wrong in supporting this development?
Brora, Golspie, Dornoch, Fortrose, Nairn, Moray, Fraseburgh, Cruden Bay, Royal Aberdeen, Montrose, Arbroath, Monifeith, Panmure, Elie, Crail, St Andrews, Kilspindle, Dunbar, Leven, Musselburgh x2, Longniddrie, Kilspindle, Craigelaw, Lufness, Gullane, Muirfield, North Berwick, Glen, Whitekirk, Winterfield, Dunbar, Troon, Prestwick, Largs, Turnberry (Ailsa’s lighthouse hole is one of the most photographed in the world. Even if you’re not playing it, take a look. The rocks are 390 million years old and from the green you can see the remains of Robert the Bruce’s castle.)
The above places all depend on Golf to bring much needed trade and commerce to their areas, are you seriosly suggesting that it was wrong to build these links courses also?
I have played and worked on several of Scotlands top courses, and I can tell you that the stewardship of the land in and around these courses could not be in better hands. At Luss on Loch Lomond they employed a proffessor to advise them how to best preserve the environment and cater for the local wildlife, they have done a sepctacular job. Golf course design and managment is one of the few land based activities that goes to such lengths to preserve and encourage the local wild life and it's habitats.
To read some of the hysterical nonsense about the trump development you would think that Alex Salmond and Donald Trump were personally bulldozing Aberdeen shire in to the North Sea whilst eating live babies.
The Menie estate ill be improved by the golf course which will protect the environment and encourage biodiversity. It will genrate jobs and local commerce, in an area neglected for to long. Previous to that it was a wind blown dump, neglected and unproductive. For the record no SSSI has been wiped out. The newts and butterflies and orchids are perfectly safe. This was a campaign by one obsessed councillor who paid the price for his personal crusade.
Golf and Scotland are synonomous. Scotland needs to tell the world we are open for business, not a wee parochial backwater, that discourages innovation and investment. Jack McConnel the Labour FM obviously agreed as he was the first to ride on Trumps chopper.
#
2012-02-21 18:41
Ah ken that fine oldnat, it's what's known as badinage. Like the permenant Aberdeen smile is something caused by the east wind!
#
2012-02-21 11:40
Is that photo supposed to be Messrs Salmond and MacAskill, caption"another fine mess...."
#
2012-02-21 12:08
Nah - its Milliband and Lamont, Cameron and Osbourne or (and most probably) Moore and his pal Beaker ... :-D
PS: X-sticks: whether you like it or not Wee Eck is entitled to express his own opinion, just because it does not match yours only makes it a liability in your own head or do you really wish the First Minister of an Independent Scotland to be a puppet of business vested interests like Cameron, Milliband and Clegg
PS: X-sticks: whether you like it or not Wee Eck is entitled to express his own opinion, just because it does not match yours only makes it a liability in your own head or do you really wish the First Minister of an Independent Scotland to be a puppet of business vested interests like Cameron, Milliband and Clegg
#
2012-02-21 20:20
Quoting ituna semea:
If you actually research the life of these people, they have done more through their charities and support of groups in Scotland, than their critics ever would if they were given another 100 lives. I include in your little list, Sean Connery and the First Minister himself.
Because they have expressed political opinions they have set them selves up to be slandered by people who could not lace their boots.
I have never had an answer to the question, "why is Souter labelled homophobic." Not one person when challenged can justify the tag. It's like racist and the boy that cried wolf. It looks ever so trendy and hip, then so does a line of Charlie, cut up with a gold Amex card.
Donald Trump, Ian Wood, Brian Soutar.
If you actually research the life of these people, they have done more through their charities and support of groups in Scotland, than their critics ever would if they were given another 100 lives. I include in your little list, Sean Connery and the First Minister himself.
Because they have expressed political opinions they have set them selves up to be slandered by people who could not lace their boots.
I have never had an answer to the question, "why is Souter labelled homophobic." Not one person when challenged can justify the tag. It's like racist and the boy that cried wolf. It looks ever so trendy and hip, then so does a line of Charlie, cut up with a gold Amex card.
#
2012-02-21 12:33
ituna semea - "Donald Trump, Ian Wood"
Beat me there ituna!
An what about Murdoch - a totally unsavoury "vested business interest"
Is he after broadcasting in Scotland?
And MJ. I totally agree that Eck has every right to his opinion. In the case of the Gardens, is he aware of how contentious the issue is? All I'm saying is that I question the wisdom of appearing to back a side in such an issue.
In the case of the AWPR both Salmond and Swinney both commented in favour of the project right before one of the court hearings in an obvous attempt to sway the outcome. He also personally belittled the leader of the group opposing the AWPR. That is not very statesmanlike.
Beat me there ituna!
An what about Murdoch - a totally unsavoury "vested business interest"
Is he after broadcasting in Scotland?
And MJ. I totally agree that Eck has every right to his opinion. In the case of the Gardens, is he aware of how contentious the issue is? All I'm saying is that I question the wisdom of appearing to back a side in such an issue.
In the case of the AWPR both Salmond and Swinney both commented in favour of the project right before one of the court hearings in an obvous attempt to sway the outcome. He also personally belittled the leader of the group opposing the AWPR. That is not very statesmanlike.
#
2012-02-21 13:30
The SNP supported Soutar's homophobic views ... Donald Trump was a take over from Jack McConnell in the first instance and has brought more jobs and investment into the Aberdeen area to the benefit of locals ... and given the recent vitriol from Trump about a proposed wind farm, it hardly looks Trump has bought much influence. Will the anti wind farm faction now be accused of taking Trump's side/money?
I would trust the good folk of Aberdeen to make their own minds up in their referendum on this matter - its called democracy. I'm sure there are better things a still fairly skint Aberdeen Council should be using their budget on but some times when its dark something frivolous is required to bring a bit of joy.
I would trust the good folk of Aberdeen to make their own minds up in their referendum on this matter - its called democracy. I'm sure there are better things a still fairly skint Aberdeen Council should be using their budget on but some times when its dark something frivolous is required to bring a bit of joy.
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2012-02-21 18:32
"The SNP supported Soutar's homophobic views"
I take it that you typed that in error? The SNP did NOT support Souter's campaign, and their MSPs voted for the repeal of Sction 2A.
I take it that you typed that in error? The SNP did NOT support Souter's campaign, and their MSPs voted for the repeal of Sction 2A.
#
2012-02-21 20:22
Quoting X_Sticks:
Can you run out a list of business figures and businesses that will be ethically acceptable to you in X_Sticks land?
ituna semea - "Donald Trump, Ian Wood"
Beat me there ituna!
An what about Murdoch - a totally unsavoury "vested business interest"
Is he after broadcasting in Scotland?
And MJ. I totally agree that Eck has every right to his opinion. In the case of the Gardens, is he aware of how contentious the issue is? All I'm saying is that I question the wisdom of appearing to back a side in such an issue.
In the case of the AWPR both Salmond and Swinney both commented in favour of the project right before one of the court hearings in an obvous attempt to sway the outcome. He also personally belittled the leader of the group opposing the AWPR. That is not very statesmanlike.
Can you run out a list of business figures and businesses that will be ethically acceptable to you in X_Sticks land?
#
2012-02-21 14:36
No Ituna - it's more like Balls and Milliband to me. Or how about Foulkes and Forsythe?
#
2012-02-21 12:07
Alisdair Darling may have wished he had not been seen or heard.
moridura.blogspot.com/.../...
this is a good read.
moridura.blogspot.com/.../...
this is a good read.
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2012-02-21 14:12
Thanks for this balbeggie.
Darling at his best.
Would Tweet it on Labourhame,but I don't wish to upset the Scottish Labour leader.
As leader,she really ought to tell him to be quiet,as she and the Scottish branch are dealing with this,thankyou very much.
"Too many cooks-----"
Darling at his best.
Would Tweet it on Labourhame,but I don't wish to upset the Scottish Labour leader.
As leader,she really ought to tell him to be quiet,as she and the Scottish branch are dealing with this,thankyou very much.
"Too many cooks-----"
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2012-02-21 15:48
Gawn yersel Moore. "There can be further devolution".
Hmm! Have the Lib/Dems not been constantly telling us,Moore in particular, that there will be no additional powers devolved to Scotland.
We now have the situation where we have the Tories, Labour and even the Lib/Dems changing their ideas and "accepting" that they will devolve "more powers" to Scotland, whatever the hell they are no one knows, nor are we ever likely to know in my opinion!
Just a wee side thought here. The referendum campaign has barely started and all of the unionist parties have already changed their stance on Scotland's Independence. By the time we reach the actual referendum date is it possible we could be in a situation where we have one, or more, of the unionist parties fighting for Independence along side the SNP? :D
Hmm! Have the Lib/Dems not been constantly telling us,Moore in particular, that there will be no additional powers devolved to Scotland.
We now have the situation where we have the Tories, Labour and even the Lib/Dems changing their ideas and "accepting" that they will devolve "more powers" to Scotland, whatever the hell they are no one knows, nor are we ever likely to know in my opinion!
Just a wee side thought here. The referendum campaign has barely started and all of the unionist parties have already changed their stance on Scotland's Independence. By the time we reach the actual referendum date is it possible we could be in a situation where we have one, or more, of the unionist parties fighting for Independence along side the SNP? :D
#
2012-02-21 23:42
Nightmare scenario...the unionists all come round to the sensible idea that Independence is best for scotland....we then realise IF they all want it, can it be that good.....I did say nightmare!!
I have to get out more..
I have to get out more..
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2012-02-21 23:50
Come and join us in the "Darkened Room":D
I admit it is getting kinda full in here but the extension plans are well under way. :D
I admit it is getting kinda full in here but the extension plans are well under way. :D
#
2012-02-21 16:43
I only got a wee bit into that before the Clash started singing in my head... "Should I stay or should I go now? Should I stay or should I go now?" I wonder was that the effect Darling Alistair was going for?
#
2012-02-21 12:08
""Lord George Foulkes recently proposed an amendment to.... prevented any Scottish First Minister from speaking to foreign government officials... cleared by Whitehall""
A.S. is the only UK politician who does speak for Sotland and has the mandate to do so.
All the others behave like being foreign, hostile opponents to us. Their 'democratic' tools - BBC, et al - are weapons against us in their hands.
The remedy is clear: Independence and a swift jettisoning of the Unionist paraphanalia that pretends to be in our favour.
A.S. is the only UK politician who does speak for Sotland and has the mandate to do so.
All the others behave like being foreign, hostile opponents to us. Their 'democratic' tools - BBC, et al - are weapons against us in their hands.
The remedy is clear: Independence and a swift jettisoning of the Unionist paraphanalia that pretends to be in our favour.
#
2012-02-21 12:09
The garden proposal in Aberdeen albeit contentious. Alec Salmond merely expressed an opinion, I'd understand if he added 'and I think the scheme should go ahead' after his own personal view but, He didn't. The best way to treat Dickie Baker is to treat the him the same was as the Rt Hon Buffoon from Carrick + Dunoon. Unelected + Irrelevant.
The question I think everybody should be now looking at, especially towards Labour is : what are Labour stance in relation to what Cameron is proposing and where does Scottish Labour sit on this? Where is Lamont? Is she in hiding and cringing in disbelief along with the Scottish nation over her dreadful performance captured on Sky News last week. I think so, Hope so!
Will Scottish Labour produce the minutes of meetings the party has had with the tabloid editors as promised by Lamont on Newsnight, now that Murdoch has re-appeared on the scene?
The question I think everybody should be now looking at, especially towards Labour is : what are Labour stance in relation to what Cameron is proposing and where does Scottish Labour sit on this? Where is Lamont? Is she in hiding and cringing in disbelief along with the Scottish nation over her dreadful performance captured on Sky News last week. I think so, Hope so!
Will Scottish Labour produce the minutes of meetings the party has had with the tabloid editors as promised by Lamont on Newsnight, now that Murdoch has re-appeared on the scene?
#
2012-02-21 12:37
"Alec Salmond merely expressed an opinion"
As First Minister CAN Eck "merely express an opinion"?
I has to be seen as taking a side.
I suspect that this "taking of sides" has probably lost the SNP a considerable number of votes in (and around) Aberdeen.
As First Minister CAN Eck "merely express an opinion"?
I has to be seen as taking a side.
I suspect that this "taking of sides" has probably lost the SNP a considerable number of votes in (and around) Aberdeen.
#
2012-02-21 13:33
You scared of the losing the 'No' vote then?
Just asking as you are so animated about it...
According to the most current figure I can find the No's are on 55% and the yes on 44%. Will Wee Eck really cause a 20% swing towards the 'yes' vote?
Found one for January that shows the 'yes' vote is now 35% and apparently Sir Ian Wood's financial support is to Aberdeen Council - if it has the slightest chance of going ahead. Funnily most folk seem to agree the gardens need a serious re-vamp but just not this one.
Just asking as you are so animated about it...
According to the most current figure I can find the No's are on 55% and the yes on 44%. Will Wee Eck really cause a 20% swing towards the 'yes' vote?
Found one for January that shows the 'yes' vote is now 35% and apparently Sir Ian Wood's financial support is to Aberdeen Council - if it has the slightest chance of going ahead. Funnily most folk seem to agree the gardens need a serious re-vamp but just not this one.
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2012-02-21 13:43
I'm really not bothered MJ, but I will vote against as a matter of principle.
I don't like when politicians and business people attempt to dictate their desires on the rest of us, and I feel that is what is happenning here.
The Aberdeen propaganda machine is in full flow and it is as bad here in Aberdeen as we (the cybernats) see the beeb as being in Scotland. I don't like that.
I don't like when politicians and business people attempt to dictate their desires on the rest of us, and I feel that is what is happenning here.
The Aberdeen propaganda machine is in full flow and it is as bad here in Aberdeen as we (the cybernats) see the beeb as being in Scotland. I don't like that.
#
2012-02-21 15:27
As an outsider on this discussion I believe that A.S.'s opinion was exactly that, an opinion. After all is he not one of the local MSP's, something neither Baby boy Baker or MacDonald are as I understand.
In relation to your question about A.S. merely expressing an opinion, well of course he can, as I said above he is the local MSP. I think it would extremely disingenuous for A.S. not to have an opinion on such matters. I do not believe he has come out and actually said "I am giving this project my backing." He has therefore not swayed voters opinions either way. If it had been one of Aberdeen councillors instead of A.S. giving their opinion would we even be discussing this.
A.S. is the local MSP as I have previously said, it just so happens that he is also First Minister of Scotland. Just because he is F.M. that, in itself, does not preclude him from airing his opinion, and only his opinion, on various matters, local, National or International.
There does seem to be an expectations in some quarters, and I am not accusing you of holding this view, that whenever A.S. expresses an opinion he is in fact expressing his wish. I think this idea may come from the dark old days of Labour led administrations /government. An era when Labour politicians were asked for their opinion and they gave it but in such a way that it was seen as more of a want/wish than an opinion.
Scottish politics has moved on and we now have a government where MSP's can give their opinion and that is exactly what it is. The days of government politicians giving their "opinion" when really it is their wish are dead and buried. This will remain so as long as A.S. and co. are left in charge of an ever increasing prosperous Scotland.
In relation to your question about A.S. merely expressing an opinion, well of course he can, as I said above he is the local MSP. I think it would extremely disingenuous for A.S. not to have an opinion on such matters. I do not believe he has come out and actually said "I am giving this project my backing." He has therefore not swayed voters opinions either way. If it had been one of Aberdeen councillors instead of A.S. giving their opinion would we even be discussing this.
A.S. is the local MSP as I have previously said, it just so happens that he is also First Minister of Scotland. Just because he is F.M. that, in itself, does not preclude him from airing his opinion, and only his opinion, on various matters, local, National or International.
There does seem to be an expectations in some quarters, and I am not accusing you of holding this view, that whenever A.S. expresses an opinion he is in fact expressing his wish. I think this idea may come from the dark old days of Labour led administrations /government. An era when Labour politicians were asked for their opinion and they gave it but in such a way that it was seen as more of a want/wish than an opinion.
Scottish politics has moved on and we now have a government where MSP's can give their opinion and that is exactly what it is. The days of government politicians giving their "opinion" when really it is their wish are dead and buried. This will remain so as long as A.S. and co. are left in charge of an ever increasing prosperous Scotland.
#
2012-02-21 12:21
From the article “I admit to knowing next to nothing about this issue save that there are two opposing views on the proposals and there is to be a referendum where the people will decide – no, not that referendum.”
I do wish that the posters on this site would make up their minds what they want.
As the author of this article writes “there is to be a referendum”.
Let it take its course, without comment from politicians.
Just give the people of Aberdeen the facts and let them decide.
I do wish that the posters on this site would make up their minds what they want.
As the author of this article writes “there is to be a referendum”.
Let it take its course, without comment from politicians.
Just give the people of Aberdeen the facts and let them decide.
#
2012-02-21 18:19
Hey perhaps we should have customs controls at the border.
After all we seem to get so much right at the moment in Scotland we would surely be able to this right as well.
Hell we could then hold our customs up as a shining light to Wastemonster and invite them up, with their passports :D, to see how it should be done. :D
After all we seem to get so much right at the moment in Scotland we would surely be able to this right as well.
Hell we could then hold our customs up as a shining light to Wastemonster and invite them up, with their passports :D, to see how it should be done. :D
#
2012-02-21 12:53
The Scottish government should copy what American presidents do by publicly declaring which news media outlets are considered hostile to the administration and those that are not.
Obama has declared FOX News as hostile.
So the SNP could and should declare the BBC as hostile too.
Obama has declared FOX News as hostile.
So the SNP could and should declare the BBC as hostile too.
#
2012-02-21 12:58
'So the SNP could and should declare the BBC as hostile too'. Definitely,
'The line in the sand'?
'The line in the sand'?
#
2012-02-21 13:19
O/T
Heard on Radio 2, or was it 4? Anyway, has anyone noticed that we ve had the driest year since 1976 and we are in drought? Well thats because we re no, England is getting mixed up again between Scotland and England, and needless to say it did noting but rain on Scotland in 2011.
So they are talking about pipelining water from Wales, or rather, thieving it, and when it was raised that shouldnt England pay for it, they say that they will remove it from the subsidies the Welsh recieve from Westminster.
Man I was nearly spewing!
Heard on Radio 2, or was it 4? Anyway, has anyone noticed that we ve had the driest year since 1976 and we are in drought? Well thats because we re no, England is getting mixed up again between Scotland and England, and needless to say it did noting but rain on Scotland in 2011.
So they are talking about pipelining water from Wales, or rather, thieving it, and when it was raised that shouldnt England pay for it, they say that they will remove it from the subsidies the Welsh recieve from Westminster.
Man I was nearly spewing!
#
2012-02-21 15:30
Let's see them try that up here Angus. :D
If they did try it I'm sure you would be able to hold the referendum the next day and have an enormous victory for the YES campaign.
If they did try it I'm sure you would be able to hold the referendum the next day and have an enormous victory for the YES campaign.
#
2012-02-21 22:40
Sorry boys, I live in Berkshire and the drought has been building for some years now. The stranded and fungus-laden fish are not a pretty sight and we don't know what's going to happen to all the other wildlife that depends on the watercourses.
As an SNP member and a lifelong supporter of Scottish self-determination, may I venture to disagree with your parochial, fantasy vision of how a Scottish nation should deal with its neighbours.
As an SNP member and a lifelong supporter of Scottish self-determination, may I venture to disagree with your parochial, fantasy vision of how a Scottish nation should deal with its neighbours.
#
2012-02-21 22:49
But the problem has been created by the rather insane policy of concentrating so much economic activity, and hence so many people in a small area which doesn't have the resources to cope with them.
As always, the greed of the few destroys the environment - and consequently the ability of humans to live there.
As always, the greed of the few destroys the environment - and consequently the ability of humans to live there.
#
2012-02-21 23:15
Sorry, oldat. You mentioned this last night and I let it pass.
The problem has been caused by the lack of rain!
It's been aggravated by over-population to an extent in that more water is being extracted from the aquifer for human consumption than was so in the days before power showers, washing machines and dishwashers but aquifer depletion has a limited effect on river levels. The SE of England is not the only area which is overpopulated (NW England and the West of the Scottish Central Belt come to mind). But the rivers and streams in those areas continue to flow.
A geater cause has been the incompetence of the (privatised) water companies who have preferred to rake in obscene profits without investing adequately in mains repairs and reservoir expansion. I believe a "drought" was declared in NW England a year ago or so!
The drought's main cause has been a climatic shift which leaves the North (the West, really) with a surfeit and the South and East with a problem. It's the lack of rain which is causing the fish, wildlife, farms and gardens to suffer and die and it's a bit galling to read people comment about this without sympathy.
Sorry if this is a bit of a rant but I can see what the drought is doing to this beautiful county and I don't like it.
The problem has been caused by the lack of rain!
It's been aggravated by over-population to an extent in that more water is being extracted from the aquifer for human consumption than was so in the days before power showers, washing machines and dishwashers but aquifer depletion has a limited effect on river levels. The SE of England is not the only area which is overpopulated (NW England and the West of the Scottish Central Belt come to mind). But the rivers and streams in those areas continue to flow.
A geater cause has been the incompetence of the (privatised) water companies who have preferred to rake in obscene profits without investing adequately in mains repairs and reservoir expansion. I believe a "drought" was declared in NW England a year ago or so!
The drought's main cause has been a climatic shift which leaves the North (the West, really) with a surfeit and the South and East with a problem. It's the lack of rain which is causing the fish, wildlife, farms and gardens to suffer and die and it's a bit galling to read people comment about this without sympathy.
Sorry if this is a bit of a rant but I can see what the drought is doing to this beautiful county and I don't like it.
#
2012-02-21 23:33
Lack of rain happens. Have a look at the Sahel!
I don't doubt the incompetence of the privatised water companies etc, but there are costs associated with humans overusing the available water resources in an area. The concentration in Central Scotland isn't really relevant because ample water is available nearby. Loch Katrine still supplies Glasgow.
In essence, the SE can buy water from elsewhere, create more potable water (eg by installing desalination plants), or reduce consumption.
If the SE corner of the UK adopts either of the first two options, then that needs to be reflected in the economic data. Since that would reduce the apparent economic benefit of such human concentration in London and the South.
I don't doubt the incompetence of the privatised water companies etc, but there are costs associated with humans overusing the available water resources in an area. The concentration in Central Scotland isn't really relevant because ample water is available nearby. Loch Katrine still supplies Glasgow.
In essence, the SE can buy water from elsewhere, create more potable water (eg by installing desalination plants), or reduce consumption.
If the SE corner of the UK adopts either of the first two options, then that needs to be reflected in the economic data. Since that would reduce the apparent economic benefit of such human concentration in London and the South.
#
2012-02-21 23:56
Agree with most of this.
That's sort of my point about Central Scotland. There is always plenty water. In the Thames and other SE Valley catchment areas, there used to be plenty of water too. Not in lochs, but in the huge aquifers (clay soil below) and numerous reservoirs that were built as the population expanded. These have been depleted by lack of rain for a number of years.
As the population of SE England increased, authorities used to plan for the expansion and create new reservoirs and pumpimg stations to deal with the increasing demand. This would of course be reflected in the economic data. Since privatisation, there has been a marked failure to invest in this expansion and it has come back to bite the companies as the rain has stopped. The only data this investment would reflect in is in the companies' accounts.
Where I live is not overpopulated and the rivers and streams are still drying up.
That's sort of my point about Central Scotland. There is always plenty water. In the Thames and other SE Valley catchment areas, there used to be plenty of water too. Not in lochs, but in the huge aquifers (clay soil below) and numerous reservoirs that were built as the population expanded. These have been depleted by lack of rain for a number of years.
As the population of SE England increased, authorities used to plan for the expansion and create new reservoirs and pumpimg stations to deal with the increasing demand. This would of course be reflected in the economic data. Since privatisation, there has been a marked failure to invest in this expansion and it has come back to bite the companies as the rain has stopped. The only data this investment would reflect in is in the companies' accounts.
Where I live is not overpopulated and the rivers and streams are still drying up.
#
2012-02-22 00:09
We are nearing agreement!
Refilling the aquifers has always been critical for supporting agriculture (and the environment) in what is England's most productive farming area.
Aquifers should never be drained so low that problems are caused by 2 or 3 years of dry weather. Your area may be sustainable, but your water will be going to feed the large urban conurbations near by.
I presume (though I don't know) that since the private water companies make their money by selling water, and there is less water to sell, that they will be allowed to maintain their profit levels by increasing the price of the water they do have?
Refilling the aquifers has always been critical for supporting agriculture (and the environment) in what is England's most productive farming area.
Aquifers should never be drained so low that problems are caused by 2 or 3 years of dry weather. Your area may be sustainable, but your water will be going to feed the large urban conurbations near by.
I presume (though I don't know) that since the private water companies make their money by selling water, and there is less water to sell, that they will be allowed to maintain their profit levels by increasing the price of the water they do have?
#
2012-02-22 00:25
I believe we are almost in agreement!
Water is being sucked from this area to slake the thirst of the ever-expanding sprawl of Reading. No problem when we have normal rainfall but the last environment to suffer will no doubt be their power showers and dishwashers, while the fish die. Still, the rivers would be flowing if we had anything like our normal rainfall, no matter what they take out.
I can't answer your last question but can make a pretty shrewd guess what line this government will take.
Water is being sucked from this area to slake the thirst of the ever-expanding sprawl of Reading. No problem when we have normal rainfall but the last environment to suffer will no doubt be their power showers and dishwashers, while the fish die. Still, the rivers would be flowing if we had anything like our normal rainfall, no matter what they take out.
I can't answer your last question but can make a pretty shrewd guess what line this government will take.
#
2012-02-21 23:47
The problem has been caused by the lack of rain!
Intensive agriculture uses about 70-80% of water usage and since the other land has been largely built up any rainfall goes straight into the drains instead of relinquishing natural supplies. This has been going on for decades and was a timebomb spoken about in environmental circles and elsewhere donkeys years ago.
Wales had a whole village submerged to supply water to Liverpool in the distant past so to cry wolf now when the the South East sucked every other region dry for pure selfish economic greed beggars belief. Change your MPs who understand the environment rather than wanting to interferer in other countries.
Intensive agriculture uses about 70-80% of water usage and since the other land has been largely built up any rainfall goes straight into the drains instead of relinquishing natural supplies. This has been going on for decades and was a timebomb spoken about in environmental circles and elsewhere donkeys years ago.
Wales had a whole village submerged to supply water to Liverpool in the distant past so to cry wolf now when the the South East sucked every other region dry for pure selfish economic greed beggars belief. Change your MPs who understand the environment rather than wanting to interferer in other countries.
#
2012-02-22 00:16
"Change your MPs who understand the environment rather than wanting to interferer in other countries."
a. I'm not defending the prick referred to by Angus above who wants water pumped from Wales. All I want is sensible management of the huge aquifer below the Thames Valley (most of the farmers' water round here returns to the aquifer or drains to local streams after use as it's not all that built up). Oh, and More Rain, but there's not a lot I can do about that.
b. Change my MP? You're 'avin' a giraffe! What to? I voted for Caroline Lucas in the Euros but she was a waste of space too.
a. I'm not defending the prick referred to by Angus above who wants water pumped from Wales. All I want is sensible management of the huge aquifer below the Thames Valley (most of the farmers' water round here returns to the aquifer or drains to local streams after use as it's not all that built up). Oh, and More Rain, but there's not a lot I can do about that.
b. Change my MP? You're 'avin' a giraffe! What to? I voted for Caroline Lucas in the Euros but she was a waste of space too.
#
2012-02-22 00:48
Aquifer replenishment is by slow percolation not by any run off water and as such should only be used in emergencies and not as they are now by agriculture.
Trees and rivers are symbiotic as the trees catch and slow the run off of any precipitation maintaining a natural reservoir of moisture to feed the river. Human habitation has changed the natural balance by putting in more man-made structures to replace something which was sustainable in the long term by something for economic growth at any cost.
I said someone who 'understands' the environment nothing more.
Trees and rivers are symbiotic as the trees catch and slow the run off of any precipitation maintaining a natural reservoir of moisture to feed the river. Human habitation has changed the natural balance by putting in more man-made structures to replace something which was sustainable in the long term by something for economic growth at any cost.
I said someone who 'understands' the environment nothing more.
#
2012-02-22 01:08
CH
That's correct. Any water used on the land which is not taken on by the crop either percolates back to the aquifer or runs off into nearby streams or brooks. Pumping water resource from the aquifer has been used in my village for over 100 years. The original wells were dug by hand by Irish navvies released from the building of the Great Western Railway.
There is little new riverside development in my immediate area but the river where I am accustomed to fish is at its lowest for many years. (BTW we had floods three years ago which were aggravated by inappropriate riverside development done in the sixties.) I still believe that a long and persistent period of rain over the catchment areas of SE England would obviate the drought problem but that the water companies must also step up to the mark and begin to do their jobs properly.
My apologies for over-reacting to your point about MPs. I thought you were asking me to vote Tory, Lab or LibDoomed - for there is no alternative round here.
That's correct. Any water used on the land which is not taken on by the crop either percolates back to the aquifer or runs off into nearby streams or brooks. Pumping water resource from the aquifer has been used in my village for over 100 years. The original wells were dug by hand by Irish navvies released from the building of the Great Western Railway.
There is little new riverside development in my immediate area but the river where I am accustomed to fish is at its lowest for many years. (BTW we had floods three years ago which were aggravated by inappropriate riverside development done in the sixties.) I still believe that a long and persistent period of rain over the catchment areas of SE England would obviate the drought problem but that the water companies must also step up to the mark and begin to do their jobs properly.
My apologies for over-reacting to your point about MPs. I thought you were asking me to vote Tory, Lab or LibDoomed - for there is no alternative round here.
#
2012-02-22 22:30
A site that you might find useful Environment Agency Maps.: .../wiybyController?topic=groundwater&layerGroups=default&lang=_e&ep=map&scale=8&x=445500&y=163500#x=413086&y=158675&lg=1,&scale=3
#
2012-02-21 22:59
Edna, I think oldnat has hit the nail on the head. It is, and I agree with oldnat on this, the "apparent" long term Wastemonster policy of concentrating too many people in a "few" areas in South/South East England without the necessary infrastructure to cater for the "£masses".
#
2012-02-21 23:36
AB1320
My reply to oldnat took me far too long to compose (I'm usually slow) so I missed your comment on the way.
I think I covered my view of the effect of overpopulation on the availability of water. It's not so much the availabilty of resources but the incompetence of those who supply them and their inability to plan ahead at the expense of lining their own pockets that is the problem.
The water that people use should come from reservoirs and sustainable pumping sources. It is these developments that the privatised water companies have neglected.
The deleted and empty rivers and ponds have been caused by lack of rain and it is not appropriate to make political points on this.
My reply to oldnat took me far too long to compose (I'm usually slow) so I missed your comment on the way.
I think I covered my view of the effect of overpopulation on the availability of water. It's not so much the availabilty of resources but the incompetence of those who supply them and their inability to plan ahead at the expense of lining their own pockets that is the problem.
The water that people use should come from reservoirs and sustainable pumping sources. It is these developments that the privatised water companies have neglected.
The deleted and empty rivers and ponds have been caused by lack of rain and it is not appropriate to make political points on this.
#
2012-02-21 23:59
The deleted and empty rivers and ponds have been caused by lack of rain and it is not appropriate to make political points on this.
Consumption of Water Resources: www.powerscorecard.org/.../
Quote:
Now who wants to build more nuclear power plants?
Consumption of Water Resources: www.powerscorecard.org/.../
Quote:
The amount of water used for power plant cooling also varies by each specific power plant's electricity generating technology and size. For example, nuclear reactors require the most water for cooling, and baseload fossil fuel power plants come in second. Steam electric generating plants across the nation draw in more than 200 billion gallons per day. Most renewable energy technologies require little or no water for cooling.
Now who wants to build more nuclear power plants?
#
2012-02-22 03:46
Maybe Boris can his hands on this.
-----------------------------------
Astronomers have confirmed the existence of a new class of planet: a waterworld with a thick, steamy atmosphere.
The exoplanet GJ 1214b is a so-called "Super Earth" - bigger than our planet, but smaller than gas giants such as Jupiter.
Observations using the Hubble telescope now seem to confirm that a large fraction of its mass is water.
The planet's high temperatures suggest exotic materials might exist there.
"GJ 1214b is like no planet we know of," said lead author Zachory Berta, from the Harvard Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics.
-------------------------------------
bbc.co.uk/.../...
-----------------------------------
Astronomers have confirmed the existence of a new class of planet: a waterworld with a thick, steamy atmosphere.
The exoplanet GJ 1214b is a so-called "Super Earth" - bigger than our planet, but smaller than gas giants such as Jupiter.
Observations using the Hubble telescope now seem to confirm that a large fraction of its mass is water.
The planet's high temperatures suggest exotic materials might exist there.
"GJ 1214b is like no planet we know of," said lead author Zachory Berta, from the Harvard Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics.
-------------------------------------
bbc.co.uk/.../...
#
2012-02-21 13:49
I am so fed up with the "Spin" from the Scotsman, a paper that there are many things to like about. However for people who see the totally Unionist propaganda that is the daily filling of their columns I hope they do as I have, and will no more buy the Scotsman ( aka "The Unionist Times ") as it makes my blood boil. After Independence I guess they will change their stance with the wind.
#
2012-02-21 14:15
Nobody is suggesting that AS should not comment on constituency matters, but I was disquieted by his contribution to the Union Gds. debate. Ian Wood is a big shot Tory with too much power in the area, and it smacks of AS cosying up too much to yet another bullying capitalist. Union Gds. ain't great at the moment, but as a previous poster pointed out, there was a particlarly good plan kiboshed by Wood's grandiose 'car-park' proposal. I felt that AS was wrong to get too involved in the Rangers mess also..and if I had any doubts, I had a previously sympathetic near-nat voter work-mate foaming at the mouth about AS's mild comments..and this individual was a Celtic fan! Just a reminder of how difficult it is to overcome the Old Firm ingrained 'Unionism'. Salmond is at his best when defending Scotland's case, but sometimes shows less sure judgement when dealing with some of our more contentious local issues.
#
2012-02-21 14:20
I noticed that Lewis McDonald's contribution in the lunchtime news was cut, after Mr Salmond pointed out that he(AS) was an elected member for the Aberdeenshire area, and had every right to comment, whereas McDonald had been turfed out of his seat in Aberdeen at the last election.
The BBC report in the evening was a disgrace as regards the comment on the first Minister being reprimanded - a blatant lie, repeated again and again.
The BBC report in the evening was a disgrace as regards the comment on the first Minister being reprimanded - a blatant lie, repeated again and again.
#
2012-02-21 14:39
Quoting DoricBob:
I've given up on BBC Scotland News--a national disgrace.I watch/listen merely as a source of,"Economical with the truth".
Sorry,that should read,London disgrace.
I noticed that Lewis McDonald's contribution in the lunchtime news was cut, after Mr Salmond pointed out that he(AS) was an elected member for the Aberdeenshire area, and had every right to comment, whereas McDonald had been turfed out of his seat in Aberdeen at the last election.
The BBC report in the evening was a disgrace as regards the comment on the first Minister being reprimanded - a blatant lie, repeated again and again.
I've given up on BBC Scotland News--a national disgrace.I watch/listen merely as a source of,"Economical with the truth".
Sorry,that should read,London disgrace.
#
2012-02-21 14:55
Brain (sick) had to get his little dig in and associate Alex Salmond with Fred Goodwin.
#
2012-02-21 15:24
O/T.OIL--Billions still there.Just saw it on STV webpage:-
local.stv.tv/.../...
Interesting info when knocking on doors in the next few weeks!
local.stv.tv/.../...
Interesting info when knocking on doors in the next few weeks!
#
2012-02-21 15:31
O/T
UK Government are set to announce soon on the future of underwater weapons testing sites in the Highlands.
Wasnt there a theory that it was this sonar testing that was affecting Whales?
(who has the key to the dark room or is now permanently open?)
bbc.co.uk/.../...
UK Government are set to announce soon on the future of underwater weapons testing sites in the Highlands.
Wasnt there a theory that it was this sonar testing that was affecting Whales?
(who has the key to the dark room or is now permanently open?)
bbc.co.uk/.../...
#
2012-02-21 15:34
Don't worry O.S. "The Darkened Room" is open 24/7. :D
Just be careful, we have the architects and builders in. We need yet another extension to be made.
Just be careful, we have the architects and builders in. We need yet another extension to be made.
#
2012-02-21 15:58
Have we not had enough weapons testing in Scotland? From Sandhead to Dalgetty Bay, the beggars can't even clean up their own mess, now they're looking at more sites for weapons tests whilst militarily asset stripping the country. That takes some neck.
How about they try some of these tests elsewhere for a change? See how the marine life off the south coast reacts to whatever new widget of target acquisition or destruction they have to play with.
Move over Smokey I'm goin' in as well.
How about they try some of these tests elsewhere for a change? See how the marine life off the south coast reacts to whatever new widget of target acquisition or destruction they have to play with.
Move over Smokey I'm goin' in as well.
#
2012-02-21 16:06
Quote:
Can I be the first to suggest they carry out their testing on the Thames, outside parliament. Just be careful of the nuclear subs tied up there! :D
How about they try some of these tests elsewhere for a change?
Can I be the first to suggest they carry out their testing on the Thames, outside parliament. Just be careful of the nuclear subs tied up there! :D
#
2012-02-21 16:17
Particularly around regatta time. :D
All those nicely turned out wee rowing boaty things rowed by these nice folk in straw boater hats closely followed by shouts of "Abandon ship/boat/whatever" GLUG! GLUG! GLUG! :D
All those nicely turned out wee rowing boaty things rowed by these nice folk in straw boater hats closely followed by shouts of "Abandon ship/boat/whatever" GLUG! GLUG! GLUG! :D
#
2012-02-21 16:58
How 'bout Cows? There'd be yellow wellies flyin' everywhich way in panic from the sight of all those subs n' nuclear warheads bein' dumped. :D
#
2012-02-21 17:46
Just make sure Mr. Pickles doesn't jump in, he'll empty the Thames and cause flooding in cecentral London!
Will the city financiers not just float away like the useless bits of paper they sell day in and day out?
Will the city financiers not just float away like the useless bits of paper they sell day in and day out?
#
2012-02-21 16:47
You do all know you're bonkers, don't you? And I mean that in the nicest possible way. Can we have an Independence Party in the Darkened Room in 2014? I think it would be great craic. I'll do sausage rolls and a few drams - I know a man with lots :)
#
2012-02-21 16:59
I don't think we could all fit in notoowee but we could have "the Darkened Room" as the centre piece. :D
Even with the newly commissioned "massive" extensions now going ahead I think we would struggle to fit everyone in.:D
Even with the newly commissioned "massive" extensions now going ahead I think we would struggle to fit everyone in.:D
#
2012-02-21 17:01
Way ahead of ye! We've been yakkin' off and on about that party for a good while. As and when the great day comes I'm sure a good number of us will name a venue and get together for the mother of all ceilidhs.
And yus some of us are completely barkin'. :D
And yus some of us are completely barkin'. :D
#
2012-02-21 17:37
Let's paws for a moment and consider that venue. Don't they have the world famous girls pipe band there? :D
#
2012-02-21 17:42
They certainly do Malcolm!
About the only thing left from what I can remember. The Ford car plant there now only joins bits together to make engines if I remember right.
BEEP! BEEP!
About the only thing left from what I can remember. The Ford car plant there now only joins bits together to make engines if I remember right.
BEEP! BEEP!
#
2012-02-21 17:57
Hell Westminster can't even keep England's manufacturing base together and they're asking us to trust them with our economic future. What used to be one of the most famous car plants in europe reduced to screwing widgets onto engines. What a waste.
Speaking of being behind on the manufacturing curve, check this out. But be sitting down when you do and have a stiff drink of that special tea recipe I gave you last night to hand.
independent.co.uk/.../...
Enjoy
Speaking of being behind on the manufacturing curve, check this out. But be sitting down when you do and have a stiff drink of that special tea recipe I gave you last night to hand.
independent.co.uk/.../...
Enjoy
#
2012-02-21 18:10
I kind of read the article as UK=England.
As far as I know, which isn't very much I know, we have been pushing Wind, wave and tidal for some considerable time. As usual, Wastemonster only wants to jump in when it sees there is something in it for themselves.
Quote:
I would be interested to see where an independent Scotland would be. I bet it wouldn't be 13th. In fact come to think about it without Scotland R-UK would most likely be a lot further down the list.
I think this is another example of why Wastemonster is desperately scrambling to keep hold of Scotland. It is getting clearer by the day that with Scotland Wastemonster would slip down the "listings in a whole range of issues, while Scotland climbed up the listings.
I'm still looking for the Toilet Duck by the way.
QUACK! QUACK! :D
As far as I know, which isn't very much I know, we have been pushing Wind, wave and tidal for some considerable time. As usual, Wastemonster only wants to jump in when it sees there is something in it for themselves.
Quote:
Caroline Flint claimed that since the coalition was formed, the UK has slipped from third to 13th in the world for green investment.
I would be interested to see where an independent Scotland would be. I bet it wouldn't be 13th. In fact come to think about it without Scotland R-UK would most likely be a lot further down the list.
I think this is another example of why Wastemonster is desperately scrambling to keep hold of Scotland. It is getting clearer by the day that with Scotland Wastemonster would slip down the "listings in a whole range of issues, while Scotland climbed up the listings.
I'm still looking for the Toilet Duck by the way.
QUACK! QUACK! :D
#
2012-02-21 18:40
My take on it exactly. When I came across that wee gem I was cleaning my keyboard for the rest of the day.
Yet all we tend to encounter on any given site is what a pipe dream renewables are. Aye right up until it becomes a profitable enterprise with huge international PR side benefits.
Yet all we tend to encounter on any given site is what a pipe dream renewables are. Aye right up until it becomes a profitable enterprise with huge international PR side benefits.
#
2012-02-21 18:51
I may have ease up on my posts for a wee while the keyboard is glowing red hot. :D
Isn't it amazing how Wastemonster keep going on about CO2 emissions and "we must cut them back" and yet it is Wastemonster that is holding England back. Not just in "attacking" their CO2 emissions but also their CO2 emission reduction targets.
If memory serves me right, and it usually doesn't, the "English" CO" reduction targets are a lot lower than the targets set by the Scottish government. There again I guess Wastemonster is looking ot "our" targets and using them to bolster their own.
Post Independence I think it will be very interesting to see how Wastemonster tackles their CO2 emission reductions programme.
Hey yet another "new" country to add to ur export list. We could sell them some of our home grown fully proven and working technology, at a price you understand. :D
Isn't it amazing how Wastemonster keep going on about CO2 emissions and "we must cut them back" and yet it is Wastemonster that is holding England back. Not just in "attacking" their CO2 emissions but also their CO2 emission reduction targets.
If memory serves me right, and it usually doesn't, the "English" CO" reduction targets are a lot lower than the targets set by the Scottish government. There again I guess Wastemonster is looking ot "our" targets and using them to bolster their own.
Post Independence I think it will be very interesting to see how Wastemonster tackles their CO2 emission reductions programme.
Hey yet another "new" country to add to ur export list. We could sell them some of our home grown fully proven and working technology, at a price you understand. :D
#
2012-02-21 16:41
Slightly off topic but as I am fairly new to this site I have a question. I have noticed that there are none of the usual rabid anti Scotland, subsidy junkies etc. posts that dog the BBC online content(mostly from SE England). Have they not discovered Newsnet or are they blocked?
#
2012-02-21 16:53
That question time clip is the most offensive thing I've seen in a long time. who are these people who think they have the right to be involved in a vote on another countries future? Terrifying to see the support from the audience over wanting to have a vote on our future. Further confirms to me that once we're free from English rule I'll surely visit England as an interesting, easy to get to, neighboring country but I'm not stepping foot in that country till we're free, seems to me like the unionist parties have successfully stirred up a great resentment for us down there.
And as for that comment about no one thinking of it as crossing a border when they pass between Scotland and England, maybe unionists don't because they see us as some sort of extension but I sure as hell know I'm crossing a border. They go way past talking about a 'union' and constantly talk like they think we're all one country and that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are just regions.
We need our freedom now more than ever.
And as for that comment about no one thinking of it as crossing a border when they pass between Scotland and England, maybe unionists don't because they see us as some sort of extension but I sure as hell know I'm crossing a border. They go way past talking about a 'union' and constantly talk like they think we're all one country and that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are just regions.
We need our freedom now more than ever.
#
2012-02-21 17:34
The only one on the panel who looked like he knew how to dance round the situation whilst towing a party line was old Ken. No flies on him. The rest really are so badly informed about Scotland, Scottish politics as well as Scottish and UK economics in general it wasn't even funny. Still its all grist for the mill. The audience seem all in favour of losing us PDQ because we waste all their hard earned cash. The more they believe that lie, the more pressure they apply to their respective MPs.
The irony that Ken Clarke is of the era and govt. which circulated most of these myths surely can't be lost on him. Lies will always come back tae bite ye in the bum. :)
The irony that Ken Clarke is of the era and govt. which circulated most of these myths surely can't be lost on him. Lies will always come back tae bite ye in the bum. :)
#
2012-02-21 18:52
Damn right it's a proper border. When I was a wee lad we'd have a family whoop for joy as we crossed it heading north for home ... and both my parents are English. We might have been down visiting relatives but they very definitely lived in a foreign country as far as we were concerned.
#
2012-02-21 17:19
I agree with your comments K.M. I think their wanting a vote in our referendum shows just how much they don't understand the situation.
What the hell was that last speaker on about. As far as I can recall in past discussions concerning the "Quebec" question, it wasn't the fact that Quebec didn't want independence it was the Canadian government who vetoed it. Quite a different scenario.
As far as the last questioner is concerned then he obviously has been kept in the cupboard for the last five years. He obviously can't see that with an SNP government for the last period we have been very successful running Scotland with the pocket money we get from Wastemonster.
Now if we can achieve what we have with the little bit of dosh we have received then it is obvious, even to a blind man, that we can achieve so much more as an independent country.
I noticed Ken Clarke going on and on about "our" influence. I think it was pretty apparent that by "our" he meant Wastemonser's influence.
I know every time I cross the border Northbound I feel an air of relief when I see the "failte gu Alba" sign on the M74 at Gretna. I feel even better after giving it a salute. :D
What the hell was that last speaker on about. As far as I can recall in past discussions concerning the "Quebec" question, it wasn't the fact that Quebec didn't want independence it was the Canadian government who vetoed it. Quite a different scenario.
As far as the last questioner is concerned then he obviously has been kept in the cupboard for the last five years. He obviously can't see that with an SNP government for the last period we have been very successful running Scotland with the pocket money we get from Wastemonster.
Now if we can achieve what we have with the little bit of dosh we have received then it is obvious, even to a blind man, that we can achieve so much more as an independent country.
I noticed Ken Clarke going on and on about "our" influence. I think it was pretty apparent that by "our" he meant Wastemonser's influence.
I know every time I cross the border Northbound I feel an air of relief when I see the "failte gu Alba" sign on the M74 at Gretna. I feel even better after giving it a salute. :D
#
2012-02-21 17:50
Robert Louis, when are you going to parade outside the B.B.C. with a big sign expressing your views regarding the biased B.B.C. Do that and you will be joined by hundreds.
#
2012-02-21 18:25
R.L. I remember, prior to the election, there being talk of some one talking about trying to organise a protest outside P.Q. Unfortunately nothing seemed to come of it. In the end it didn't really matter, there was talk of mass suicides being planned in P.Q. on May 6th anyway.
My point is, do I ever have a point I don't know. Anyway my point is that even now, post May 6th, a anti biased protest would still draw some unwanted attention to P.Q.
My point is, do I ever have a point I don't know. Anyway my point is that even now, post May 6th, a anti biased protest would still draw some unwanted attention to P.Q.
#
2012-02-21 21:01
If The Scottish Sun comes out in full support of independence such a protest would work as my previous dobts about such a protest hinged on the fact that the 100% anti-unionist media would not report it.
If Murdoch is now aboard the good ship independence I am sure he would take great delight in splashing such a protest in The Sun.
If Murdoch is now aboard the good ship independence I am sure he would take great delight in splashing such a protest in The Sun.
#
2012-02-21 18:53
Ken Clark on mediaeval countries!
He has a neck of brass. He's sitting in a gothic freak show, folk are walking backwards and chaps in tights are chapping doors with sticks, one half of the show has more fiddlers than Shetland, and the other lot are sound asleep and draped in dead ferrets.
Monty Python couldn't think it up.
He has a neck of brass. He's sitting in a gothic freak show, folk are walking backwards and chaps in tights are chapping doors with sticks, one half of the show has more fiddlers than Shetland, and the other lot are sound asleep and draped in dead ferrets.
Monty Python couldn't think it up.
#
2012-02-21 23:07
I'm quite sure if Monty Python did think it up it would be a hell of a lot better to watch! :D
#
2012-02-21 19:26
It seems it's OK for ALL the politicians in England to express an opinion on a Scottish Independence referendum but a local MSP from Aberdeenshire can't express his opinion on a glorified landscaping project.
The Scottish media would prefer to censor Alex Salmond on every issue, and in-fact this is the interview style they use, with constant interruptions etc.
The Scottish media is NOT Scottish and I would go as far to say that Scottish Labour is the political arm of the BBC(Pathetic Quay).
The Scottish media would prefer to censor Alex Salmond on every issue, and in-fact this is the interview style they use, with constant interruptions etc.
The Scottish media is NOT Scottish and I would go as far to say that Scottish Labour is the political arm of the BBC(Pathetic Quay).
#
2012-02-21 19:51
OT
After reading the following article I felt numb, in fact I had to pinch myself to ensure that I was awake.
guardian.co.uk/.../...
“ The directly elected European parliament should be abolished after failing to achieve its purpose of bridging the divide between the European people and the European Union, the former foreign secretary Jack Straw has said. “
After 13 years in power and after promising a referendum on the EU in their 2005 manifesto - on which they reneged - Jack Staw, who was a major player throughout the last government, has now come out with this. In fact Jimmy Brown sneeked in, after they had all gone home, to sign the Lisbon Treaty.
I am really lost for words. I mean you couldn’t make this up even if you really tried.
After reading the following article I felt numb, in fact I had to pinch myself to ensure that I was awake.
guardian.co.uk/.../...
“ The directly elected European parliament should be abolished after failing to achieve its purpose of bridging the divide between the European people and the European Union, the former foreign secretary Jack Straw has said. “
After 13 years in power and after promising a referendum on the EU in their 2005 manifesto - on which they reneged - Jack Staw, who was a major player throughout the last government, has now come out with this. In fact Jimmy Brown sneeked in, after they had all gone home, to sign the Lisbon Treaty.
I am really lost for words. I mean you couldn’t make this up even if you really tried.
#
2012-02-21 22:17
Sorry for going O/T here but yet another example of how the Scottish government is planning for the future.
[Sometimes, links need to be removed for legal reasons - NNS Mod Team]
If there is one thing that can never be levelled at the Scottish government is that they stand still and let the grass grow under their feet.
Quote:
Just one thing we should remember though is that, according to Labour, the Scottish government has never done anything for Glasgow.
[Sometimes, links need to be removed for legal reasons - NNS Mod Team]
If there is one thing that can never be levelled at the Scottish government is that they stand still and let the grass grow under their feet.
Quote:
Energy Minister Fergus Ewing has pledged the Granite City will be the central hub for all things energy-related in an independent Scotland. The SNP plans to site a new Energy Ministry in Aberdeen as part of its plans for the three major Scottish cities in an independent Scotland. Edinburgh would be the economic focus for the country and Glasgow the media centre.
Just one thing we should remember though is that, according to Labour, the Scottish government has never done anything for Glasgow.
#
2012-02-21 22:24
Thats not quite true though if you listen to new labour in Aberdeen,accord ing to them everything goes to Glasgow at the expense of Aberdeen
#
2012-02-21 22:49
Ah, there's your problem ds12. Your listening to "new" Labour, I'm quoting "Scottish" Labour. :D
As usual the Left hand of Labour doesn't know what the Right hand is doing!
I'm quite sure you'll probably find someone from "next new" Labour in Dundee, Perth, Inverness or Edinburgh all making similar claims.
As usual the Left hand of Labour doesn't know what the Right hand is doing!
I'm quite sure you'll probably find someone from "next new" Labour in Dundee, Perth, Inverness or Edinburgh all making similar claims.
#
2012-02-22 00:38
I'm getting confused again - how many Labours have we got? I didn't think they had enough for one party in Scotland?
#
2012-02-22 00:42
Ex-Labour councillors in Glasgow are forming New Independent Labour, so named to reflect the number of councillors they're likely to return.
#
2012-02-22 01:53
Quoting Jiggsbro:
Excuse me but should that not be New Separatist Labour
Ex-Labour councillors in Glasgow are forming New Independent Labour, so named to reflect the number of councillors they're likely to return.
Excuse me but should that not be New Separatist Labour
#
2012-02-22 02:01
I must admit jafurn I'm getting to the point where I'm confused about Labour.
Or is it New Labour?
Or Old Labour?
Or New Old Labour?
Or Old New Labour?
Or New Separatist Labour?
Or Separatist New Labour?
Or..........:D
Or is it New Labour?
Or Old Labour?
Or New Old Labour?
Or Old New Labour?
Or New Separatist Labour?
Or Separatist New Labour?
Or..........:D
#
2012-02-21 22:30
The above BBC video is classic as again, not one single argument for Britain was offered. Ignorant, ill-informed and simply wrong but making claims about Scots being incompetent and needing bailed out like the London banks should be edited from all BBC broadcasts unless corrected by an announcer. The British public are being fed a daily diet of falsehoods and anti-Scottish broadcasts. Even this evening (BBC Scotland Drive-time) Jackie Bailie was handed prime-time to unfairly attack and cast false accusations about the Deputy FM & Health Secretary yet an unfriendly announcer read Sturgeon's statement reply. I see that as gagging in Big-Brother style.
#
2012-02-22 01:07
Yes the BBC in Scotland were trying very hard to get Nicola S. to say that the NHS Scotland would pay not only for the removal of the implants but also for putting in replacements in every case. But she astutely talked round that one very well.
Ms Baillie was just manufacturing a little self publicity claiming that the SG had moved their position. Implying it was her 'whot done it'. Labour shadow the lobbying and step up to the microphone and get their photie in the paper at the right moment.
It will be in the daily wrecker tomorrow (today)no doubt.
NHS policy in Scotland is generally not to do 'cosmetic' surgery unless it is really necessary.
Private clinics coin it in and the NHS pick up all the bills. No change there then.
Ms Baillie was just manufacturing a little self publicity claiming that the SG had moved their position. Implying it was her 'whot done it'. Labour shadow the lobbying and step up to the microphone and get their photie in the paper at the right moment.
It will be in the daily wrecker tomorrow (today)no doubt.
NHS policy in Scotland is generally not to do 'cosmetic' surgery unless it is really necessary.
Private clinics coin it in and the NHS pick up all the bills. No change there then.
#
2012-02-22 01:13
Wow, cmd. Jackie Baillie and the word shadow in one paragraph?
That's one hell of a shadow! :D
That's one hell of a shadow! :D
#
2012-02-22 01:22
Quoting Arbroath1320:
I see what you mean. But I wont take UMBRAge at your comment!
LOL #;)
Wow, cmd. Jackie Baillie and the word shadow in one paragraph?
That's one hell of a shadow! :D
I see what you mean. But I wont take UMBRAge at your comment!
LOL #;)
#
2012-02-22 01:14
Quoting call me dave:
Whit! I thought she wis died.
Yes the BBC in Scotland were trying very hard to get Nicola S. to say that the NHS Scotland would pay not only for the removal of the implants but also for putting in replacements in every case. But she astutely talked round that one very well.
Ms Baillie was just manufacturing a little self publicity claiming that the SG had moved their position. Implying it was her 'whot done it'. Labour shadow the lobbying and step up to the microphone and get their photie in the paper at the right moment.
It will be in the daily wrecker tomorrow (today)no doubt.
NHS policy in Scotland is generally not to do 'cosmetic' surgery unless it is really necessary.
Private clinics coin it in and the NHS pick up all the bills. No change there then.
Whit! I thought she wis died.
#
2012-02-21 22:35
Robert Louis.
Not ment to be sarcastic at all. Just think it would be an excellent way of genuine protest and it really only takes one person to begin a massive protest against the state broadcaster.
Not ment to be sarcastic at all. Just think it would be an excellent way of genuine protest and it really only takes one person to begin a massive protest against the state broadcaster.
#
2012-02-22 00:56
Anyone else notice the throw away 'spectacularly vague' used to describe the SNP's description of independence by David Allison last night on Newsnight Scotland? It was not a quote from an opposition politician but a 'given' statement of 'fact' by a program presenter, I phoned in a complaint, first time for years as I know it is a waste of time but I was incensed, as was my wife.
See 11:18 in
bbc.co.uk/.../...
See 11:18 in
bbc.co.uk/.../...
#
2012-02-22 01:02
I can see that we are going to have to buy quite a few dictionaries. :D
Surely even the most "hair brained" person on the planet knows how to use a dictionary. All we have to do is to supply the "questioners" of what does Independence mean a dictionary and surely their pathetic question is answered.
Just make sure that the section containing the "I" section is included as the dictionaries they currently use must be missing this section.:D
Surely even the most "hair brained" person on the planet knows how to use a dictionary. All we have to do is to supply the "questioners" of what does Independence mean a dictionary and surely their pathetic question is answered.
Just make sure that the section containing the "I" section is included as the dictionaries they currently use must be missing this section.:D
#
2012-02-22 01:19
LOL:
#;)
But remember there are folk who genuinely cant read well enough.
O/T.
I see Blethery Brian was trundled out earlier on to pour cold water on the Murdoch supports SNP possibility / story.
He has been missing for a while now. He was in the parliament waving the newspaper. Got a few seconds of smearing Murdoch and the phone hacking.
Well done Brian can't have Labour and the BBC let down.
Really believe he is being made to earn his corn with the BBC and it's in his job description to be a spoiler along with Prof Curtis.
#;)
But remember there are folk who genuinely cant read well enough.
O/T.
I see Blethery Brian was trundled out earlier on to pour cold water on the Murdoch supports SNP possibility / story.
He has been missing for a while now. He was in the parliament waving the newspaper. Got a few seconds of smearing Murdoch and the phone hacking.
Well done Brian can't have Labour and the BBC let down.
Really believe he is being made to earn his corn with the BBC and it's in his job description to be a spoiler along with Prof Curtis.
#
2012-02-22 01:25
Quote:
Is this corn one of his "five a day"?
Really believe he is being made to earn his corn with the BBC and it's in his job description to be a spoiler along with Prof Curtis.
Is this corn one of his "five a day"?
#
2012-02-22 01:40
"Mr Gove said that no progress could be made on more powers until the issue of the independence referendum had been resolved. “Once that has happened we will need to have a long discussion with the political parties and civic Scotland about how to proceed,” he said."
Oh, that discussion will indeed be long - generations long!
Oh, that discussion will indeed be long - generations long!
#
2012-02-22 01:47
Take as long as you want Gove. Come 2014 we are gone, tatty bye, ave verdeci, so long, chow!
When we become independent in 2014 we are NEVER, let me repeat that... N.....E.....V.....E.....R.....! coming back into the union.
When we become independent in 2014 we are NEVER, let me repeat that... N.....E.....V.....E.....R.....! coming back into the union.
#
2012-02-22 02:10
#Oldnat:
He also insisted that Mr Cameron is “an asset” to the pro-UK side of the referendum campaign, he admitted his party had madehistoric hysterical mistakes north of the Border.
--------------------------------------
We should not count our chickens until they are plucked but did anyone imagine what a pig's ear the unionists would make of their argument?
It's so amateurish and ill thought out, straight from the 'Wily Coyote' school of strategic planning.
Lion Rampant V's Paper Tiger at the moment and as I have said before and to paraphrase another twit - "They're NOT doing it on purpose".
Surely the iron fist must emerge from the ermine glove - All that oil, Jings!
They took us to war for oil in foreign parts. My tin hat is on a shoogly nail at the back door until I wake up on voting day.
Perhaps another strategy is to see how it goes and very near to the vote offer devo-plenty to 'The First Eck' who will likely have to turn it down and the unionists hope it sways the voters to a NO victory in a close contest.
Darkened room!
He also insisted that Mr Cameron is “an asset” to the pro-UK side of the referendum campaign, he admitted his party had made
--------------------------------------
We should not count our chickens until they are plucked but did anyone imagine what a pig's ear the unionists would make of their argument?
It's so amateurish and ill thought out, straight from the 'Wily Coyote' school of strategic planning.
Lion Rampant V's Paper Tiger at the moment and as I have said before and to paraphrase another twit - "They're NOT doing it on purpose".
Surely the iron fist must emerge from the ermine glove - All that oil, Jings!
They took us to war for oil in foreign parts. My tin hat is on a shoogly nail at the back door until I wake up on voting day.
Perhaps another strategy is to see how it goes and very near to the vote offer devo-plenty to 'The First Eck' who will likely have to turn it down and the unionists hope it sways the voters to a NO victory in a close contest.
Darkened room!
#
2012-02-22 04:51
Is it just me or is there more support for independence on the scotsman comments than there used to be just a few weeks ago?
#
2012-02-22 01:27
Aye! The union machine never sleeps.
PS: If you keep finding these articles you'll become a permanent resident in the big darkened room.
PPS:
I'll come tae if I get to make the soup.
PS: If you keep finding these articles you'll become a permanent resident in the big darkened room.
PPS:
I'll come tae if I get to make the soup.
#
2012-02-22 01:30
Can I book a place in the dark room ?- went to the North Britain site and read an article by Bleak Midwinter.
#
2012-02-22 20:21
Democracy - is a wonderful thing! Now shut up Alex we don't like your version of it and we only want to hear about ours, so there....
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