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bell-fuck

It's an accusation of which we've become weary in the independence movement: we hate the English.  Our aspirations to redistribute wealth, remove nuclear submarines from our waters, prevent involvement in foreign wars, and make Scotland a modern, healthy, fair democracy?  All motivated by pure anti-English bigotry.  So desperate are the opponents of – heaven forfend! – a country's desire to make its own political decisions that they will pounce upon any reference towards 'the English' or 'England' that is not first prefaced with the words 'Of course I love...'.  This is proof for them that, should Scotland vote yes to independence, anyone caught carrying a Dickens novel will be rounded up into a labour camp and force-fed porridge.

Late last year our greatest living artist, Alasdair Gray, ended up on a ritual media bonfire for not unreasonably asking why there are so few Scots running our national arts organisations.  Admittedly, Gray’s use of the term ‘colonists[1] to describe English migrants who take top arts jobs in Scotland as a springboard to a bigger one elsewhere was contentious, but it was in the context of a thoughtful and lucid analysis about Scotland’s historical relationship to England.

The censorious reaction to the Gray affair was telling.  Vast acres of the Scottish and English media were given over to excoriating him for racism, bigotry and, of course, anti-Englishness.  Yet Damon Albarn wrote Blur’s Modern Life is Rubbish and Parklife albums in the early Nineties with the expressed purpose of reversing America’s cultural influence over the UK.  Mike Smith of Food Records, Blur’s label, described the band’s ‘manifesto’ at the time as ‘We are proud to be British, so fuck America.[2]  Ten years later Pete Doherty sang that, ‘There are fewer more distressing sights / Than that of an Englishman in a baseball cap[3]. Neither Albarn nor Doherty were called anti-American bigots.  Instead Albarn was deemed the vanguard of the new cultural moment, Britpop, and Doherty the voice of a lost Albion.  We can only wonder why Gray was not treated similarly.

Things reached a new low last week when The Guardian – a highly-respected, left-leaning journal admired by many in Scotland – ran a Steve Bell cartoon in which Alex Salmond poses before the slogan, ‘Do You Believe Scotland Should Go _____ Itself?  YES/NO[4]  The blank word, obscured by Salmond’s face, is clearly supposed to be ‘fuck’.  Despite what many wanted to believe (it was David Cameron’s opinion not Bell’s, it was just a joke, etc) The Guardian have confirmed the motivatons behind the cartoon: ‘It’s a commentary on Alex Salmond’s vision of an independent Scotland and reflects Bell’s view [that] it would be against Scotland’s interests.[5]

If I think it would be against your interests to break a failing relationship with me, would I succeed by telling you to ‘go fuck yourself’?  If I did, would you take it as a ‘joke’ or even a ‘commentary’?  You might, rather, take it as further proof about the state of our relationship.

We don’t want to find ourselves in a situation where we cannot laugh at ourselves or are beyond satire.  But this is satire so broad and so ugly that it sails across the line into offensiveness.  Why would The Guardian ‘satirise’ a country simply wanting to make its own decisions anyway?  The aims of the Scottish independence movement – social justice, protection of public services, opposition to Conservatism – are the same ones which The Guardian themselves espouse.  Can we imagine a mainstream Scottish newspaper, or even a website such as this one, running a slogan which says, ‘England Should Go Fuck Itself’?  Can we imagine The Guardian saying such a thing about India, China or France? To paraphrase Ali G, then: ‘is it coz we is Scots?’

Similarly, how are we to interpret an ICM poll[6] published in The Telegraph a year ago which compared Scottish and English attitudes towards independence.  The Scottish percentage who want to break from the UK (40%) is roughly commensurate with the amount of Scots who believe they’d be better off by doing so (38%).  Only 23% of the 1734 English-based people surveyed, however, believe Scotland would be better off, despite 43% of them actually wanting Scottish independence.  We could say that the 20% disparity means they believe in democracy for Scotland, despite the consequences, until we spot the real reason: a hefty 61% of English respondants think that Scotland is ‘unjustifiably’ overfunded by London.  The results from the sample taken together, then, create this message: You are a burden, you’ll fail without us, and we want rid of you more than you want to stay with us.

In this context, the Steve Bell cartoon starts to make more sense.

These are the jibes of the spurned husband.  An entire audience of the BBC’s Question Time in Lancaster, for example. laughed and applauded at the idea that England’s nuclear waste should be dumped in Scotland[7].  Even Stewart Lee, considered by many the thinking-person’s comedian, wrote last year in The Guardian that Alex Salmond is a ‘coward’ who ‘reminds me of the mayor of a small provincial town [with] ideas above his station.[8]  The piece was accompanied by a cartoon Salmond with red, demonic eyes.  While Salmond is, of course, open for criticism we should observe Lee’s likening of Scotland to a ‘provincial town’.  Shortly after Lee rhapsodies about much he ‘loves Scotland’ he regurgitates every cliché in the book – heroin, Jimmy Krankie, alcoholism, the Scottish diet – in order to prove it.  With friends like these, eh?

Media uproar: nil.  But why should we expect anything less when Salmond has already been compared by Unionist politicians and the media to Hitler[9], Mussolini[10], Milosevic[11], Stalin[12], Mugabe[13], Kim Jong-Il[14], Caligula[15], Nero[16] and Ceausescu[17]?  One would think Salmond responsible for the systematic murder and torturing of English people, instead of modestly proposing that political decisions about Scotland be made in Scotland.

Unionist Scots, who go out of their way to tell the electorate how ‘proud’ they are of Scotland, often exhibit a very strange form of pride indeed.  Ruth Davidson last year claimed, at the Tory conference in Birmingham, that 88% of Scots contribute nothing to the economy[18].  Johann Lamont, for her part, stated that ‘Scotland has a “something for nothing” culture[19].  Even were it true, might Labour take some of the blame for this ‘culture’, since they controlled Scotland from 1997 to 2007?  No, the Scottish people themselves are, somehow, fundamentally flawed.  Labour’s Ian Davidson even made the outrageous assertion – in Parliament, no less – that Scots celebrate the Battle of Bannockburn because ‘hundreds of thousands of English people were murdered[20].  We can imagine the reaction if, say, the SNP were to comment that the English celebrate the murder of Scots.  We can imagine the reaction were Alex Salmond to describe Cameron’s government as a ‘dictatorship’, as Anas Sarwar – again, in Parliament – described Scotland’s democratically-elected party[21].  Where were the censures, not least for non-parliamentary language?  There were none.  What did the media have to say?  Nothing.

Of course, opposition to independence and opposition to Scotland are not automatically the same thing (although they frequently are).  Neither is it possible to deny that nationalists are as capable of intemperate language as Unionists.  The reaction from Yes Scotland to this, however, has been one of disapproval and a plea for tolerance of their opponents’ views.  It would be decorous were the Better Together campaign to accept this gesture and promise similar regulation of their own.  Instead, irony-free, they posit the problem entirely with SNP supporters who 'hurl abuse and denigrate anyone who disagrees with them'[22].  There goes the handshake.

Now, as it happens, I do love England.  I lived and worked in England for three years.  I visit there at least twice a year.  My ex-girlfriend, many of my cousins, and my god-daughter are all English.  Almost all of my favourite bands are English, as are many of my favourite writers and film-makers.  The intellectual and scientific achievements of the English are vast and to be admired, and the English working-class, in the main, especially in the North, feel more like kin to me than the Scottish elite.

I do love England.  What I do not love at all is the British state, and attacking it is not the same thing as attacking the English.

‘The United Kingdom of Great Britain’ is not a country, it is a construct, a backroom deal done in 1707 by the Scottish and English ruling class in their own interests and against the wishes of their people.  Britain is an imperialist machine which was designed to wage war and steal territory from other nations, and this is what it has done almost continuously, using military power, economics and, yes, torture[23].  The symbolic figureheads of British ‘democracy’, the monarchy and the House of Lords, exist to institutionalise privilege and perpetuate the class divide.  We can see this no more easily than in the current Tory/Lib Dem coalition (and will see it some more if we vote back in a Labour party who have also pledged to ‘ruthlessly’ cut public services[24]).  The briefly-progressive Britain which defeated facism in World War II, then introduced the socialist policies of the NHS and the Welfare State – the Britain which was celebrated by Danny Boyle’s opening ceremony at the Olympics – is in the dim and distant past.  The Britain we have to look forward to is one of permanent austerity, stunted democracy and the continued transferal of wealth from the poor to the rich.  Where Scotland figures in this no-one knows, since Westminster refuses to divulge its plan for Scotland post-2014, despite the Electoral Commission insisting that it do so[25].  This means they either have no plan for Scotland after the referendum (bad) or plan to punish us (worse).

These are just some of the many reasons why I wish for Scotland to be independent from the British state, not because I – or anyone else I know – ‘hates’ the English.  Scotland’s much-vaunted ‘anti-Englishness’, upon which our media love to report, simply does not stand up to statistical analysis anyway.  Murray Watson’s groundbreaking book, Being English In Scotland, reports that 8% of the Scottish population was born in England[26] (as opposed to 1.5% of the English population who were born in Scotland[27]).  All other immigrant groups together make up only 5% of the Scottish population, making the English by far the largest immigrant group in Scotland.  Given the presence of the English in Scotland increased by 84% in the second half of the 20th Century[28], one would have expected the usual rise in racial tensions that afflict most nations who experience the arrival of an ethnic group to such a degree.  Murray reports, however, that 'evidence of anti-English violence [is] hard to find'[29].  94% of the sample of English people in Scotland that Murray interviewed said that ‘anti-Englishness was not a serious problem[30].  We might contrast this with the unfortunate treatment of Irish immigrants in Scotland, despite the fact that, at its height, the presence of the Irish in Scotland never topped 7.2% of the population[31].  Murray concludes that, 'Compared with other migrant groups in Scotland, the English [do] not suffer from violence, widespread abuse, serious harrassment or discrimination'[32]. This, remember, is despite the English being by far the largest immigrant group in Scotland.

Scottish independence is not about ridding ourselves of the English, not least because there so many English people integrated here anyway, with jobs, friends and families, and because Scotland and England will always be right next door to each other.  People from both nations will still be free to live in, work in and visit each other’s countries anytime they like.  The cultural, social and familial links will remain and, yes, we’ll still be able to watch Eastenders on the telly.  We’ll just no longer be governed by Westminster.  Despite what Steve Bell might think, it really is as simple as that.  So let’s turn the other cheek to the anti-Scottish jibes and just get on with the business of creating a better country.  If we want to be a mature democracy after 2014, let’s start our growing now.  Maybe Scotland and England will finally then be able to look each other in the eye as equals.

Alan Bissett - Author, Performer and Playwright - alanbissett.com

Originally published on National Collective - Artists and creatives for Scottish Independence.
http://nationalcollective.com

Also published on Bella Caledonia - http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/


[1] Gray, Alasdair (2012) ‘Settlers and Colonists’ in Hames, Scott (ed.) Unstated: Scottish Writers on Independence. Wordpower, p.104.

[2] Harris, John (2003) The Last Party: Britpop, Blair and the Demise of English Rock. Fourth Estate, p.79.

[3] The Libertines, ‘Time For Heroes’ (2003)

[4] http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cartoon/2013/jan/30/scottish-independence-referendum-question-cartoon?commentpage=7

[5] http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/4773243/Fury-at-racist-independence-jibe-cartoon.html

[6] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9015374/Britain-divided-over-Scottish-independence.html

[7] httpv://wwwyoutube.com/watch?v=7iXRcs-oS0E

[8] http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/feb/05/stewart-lee-salmond-scotland-independence

[9] Tom Harris & Ann Moffat.

[10] Lord Foulkes, Labour Peer

[11] Denis McShane, Labour MP

[12] Alan Cochrane, Daily Telegraph

[13] Lord Cormack, Conservative Peer, and Jeremy Paxman, BBC

[14] Lord Forsyth, Conservative Peer

[15] John McLeod, The Times

[16] Annabel Goldie, Conservative MSP

[17] Neil Collins, Financial Times

[18] http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/article3561517.ece

[19] http://news.stv.tv/politics/191807-labour-leader-johann-lamont-demands-end-to-something-for-nothing-culture/

[20] http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/6572-scottish-labour-mp-claims-scots-celebrate-bannockburn-because-english-were-murdered

[21] Ibid.

[22] http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/yes-campaigners-launch-bid-to-silence-cybernats.20084686

[23] http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2013/01/19/british-values/

[24] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/9572944/Labour-will-be-ruthless-about-cutting-public-spending-says-Ed-Balls.html

[25] httpvs://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRyZ89qJ-QA

[26] Watson, Murray (2003) Being English in Scotland, Edinburgh University Press, p.27.

[27] Ibid.

[28] Ibid, p.27.

[29] Ibid, p.135.

[30] Ibid, p.127.

[31] Ibid, p.10.

[32] Ibid, p.143

Comments  

 
# hiorta 2013-02-04 20:19
Any red herring to avoid spelling out how the 'NO' camp sees Scotland's future.
According to what we can glean - it is right, proper and fitting for England to have self-rule AND effective control over Scotland.

But Scotland has tae dae as we're telt?

This constitutes an equal partnership?

Aye, Right!
 
 
# X_Sticks 2013-02-04 20:39
Superb Mr Bissett.

The truth of it laid our clearly and concisely.

Will the Guardian print it?

Or is the Guardian really just another instrument of the british state?
 
 
# tarbat 2013-02-04 20:40
Ironically, one of the reasons we moved to Scotland six years ago was in the hope that Scotland would eventually become independent.

We're English to the core, but still want Scottish independence. It's the "British Empire", and its attempts to "rule the world" that we would like to lose. After six years of living in Scotland, we now think of ourselves as Scottish first, British second, and European third. We don't hate the English, but we do hate the empire mentality.
 
 
# troutbag 2013-02-04 22:33
I totally agree with Tarbat. I was born in Birmingham have lived in Scotland for over 13 years and I am an SNP Highland Councillor. I have spoken to many, many English folk that have moved to Scotland and when they are asked would you move back virtually all say no. We must be doing something right. Vote YES 2014. Troutbag
 
 
# mudfries 2013-02-04 21:05
hear hear tarbat, I know many Independence supporters in my area (south of scotland) who are english, the unionist tactic is to try and brand the SNP and the Independence movement as rascist and its absolute rubbish, the labour party have tried this tactic for a while now and all it proves is how low they will go in their death throes as a party in scotland. Its not about where anybody comes from, its about where we are all going - together, the scots and the english have a bond and a relationship that is valued by all decent people in both these countrys, its the british nationalist politicians and the current political set up that threatens that social union, independence would be good for england as well I think and the social union as equals would go from strength to strength, Vote Yes and save the Union!!!
 
 
# clootie 2013-02-04 21:32
Great article. I cannot understand why the desire to have a nation with the values WE desire is anti-anyone. I simply do not want the same system as they do.

Why is a desire for:
No univesity fees / Free education
No nuclear energy
No force projection / weapons of mass destruction
No private health care
No prescription charges (tax on the ill)
No removal of support for those in need.

The only way we can stop shouting No is to vote YES in 2014.

I can remember when Labour North and South of the border would have shared this desire.
 
 
# reiver 2013-02-04 21:48
Hear hear to Tarbat's comments above. The unionist press will always be able to find individual instances of professed 'hatred of the English' and, report them to suit their own agenda.

We have to move the argument to the ideals and values of our nation and not the nationality of birth. Eventually the so called 'man on the Clapham omnibus' will catch on to what the debate is really about (and we have more than 18 months to bring this about). The 8% will be crucial !
 
 
# mountaincadre 2013-02-04 21:57
The real irony about this is that it will more than any thing else drive people to vote yes, not because of any anti anybody feeling, but that they simply do not understand that your average member of the public either here or anywhere else in the UK doesn't think like that and doesn't like being portrayed as someone who does.
 
 
# John MacIntyre OBE 2013-02-04 22:07
A bit embarrassing that Alan Bissett misses the point of Steve Bell's cartoon - especially as it has been explained to him i.e. ‘It’s a commentary on Alex Salmond’s vision of an independent Scotland and reflects Bell’s view [that] it would be against Scotland’s interests. So the missing word is "Salmond" and it says "Do you agree that Scotland should go and [Salmond] itself?" It's not the first time that Steve Bell has satirised Alex Salmond - check out the cartoon depicting Alex Salmond's evidence to the Leveson inquiry.
 
 
# reiver 2013-02-04 23:04
The missing word is Salmond ? I don't think so.
 
 
# Etrigan 2013-02-04 23:27
A bit embarrassing that John MacIntyre OBE misses the point. You see, it's the pencil he's holding that has the point. So the missing word is "Pencil" and it says "Do you agree that Scotland should go and (Pencil) itself?" It's not the first time Steve Bell has used a pencil in his cartoon's.
 
 
# Davy 2013-02-04 23:26
Yet again the world turns and twists into a JMac-obe fantasy farce.
And after reading Alan Bisset's article and having read some of your postings its quite easy to see who misses the point. Or did you not understand the article in full ? perhaps it was too close to the bone for you to comment. Well I look forward to your anaylsis !!!

Vote Yes, it does make sense HONEST.
 
 
# govanite 2013-02-04 23:42
Obi, Only in your mental kailyard could you ever think this was remotely funny. Not even Michael Forsyth would suggest such nonsense.

See the comments from sensible English contributors on this page, your bitter little world is going to collapse.
 
 
# Louperdowg 2013-02-04 23:55
John

I suppose its the OBE that gives you the insight.
 
 
# argyll6 2013-02-05 03:20
John MacIntyre I have read many of your comments on other websites, you seem to see nothing wrong with this kind of thing, I for one do not agree with your meaning of the cartoon, it is plain for everyone to see. you also have a great distaste for Scottish self determination,
 
 
# Macart 2013-02-05 09:47
Mr MacIntyre the cartoon and the editorial decision to publish it was a callous and calculated click baiting exercise. Whether 'Salmond itself' or indeed the other more believable variation was the intended form is neither here nor there. The first impressions anyone would take from the cartoon were always going to be, and intended to be, outrage and offence or bigoted glee and delight.

Cue 'deluge of posts' on CiF. On this of all subjects the temperatures raise very quickly and it doesn't take much to incite the worst kind of ill feeling and civic division. The message of this cartoon was an intended multiple play on words. Fill in the blank yourself if you will or insert your own view. The Guardian was wrong to do this.
 
 
# Diabloandco 2013-02-05 13:41
Salmond?
Nah! The missing word is a very rude one but then it is convenient to spin intit?
 
 
# ituna semea 2013-02-04 22:30
The QT comments about dumping Nuclear Waste in Scotland were made by a comedian who really has no place on a serious discussion programme.
The same comedian made despicable comments about the French people which were much more offensive.

[Admin - Please be careful. The comment in the clip was made by a member of the audience and not by Dom Jolly.]
 
 
# Breeks 2013-02-04 22:55
It's curious, but I find the cartoon featuring Alex Salmond offensive and completely lacking in wit or humour.

On the other hand, I wasn't offended by the QT coments about nuclear waste. It was meant to be humerous, and the laugh merely resonated in the context of an all English audience. A crowd of us Scots getting together could be just as smug having a chuckle at the English expense. Now come on, you know we would... we just wouldn't be so thick as to put it on nationwide TV.

It's an 'us' and 'them' thing, and on that occassion, we Scots were 'them' Scots. The irony is, we Scots were looking at 'them' English in the audience, having a quiet chuckle to ourselves about how clueless and off the pace the English audience seemed to be.

Strikes me we would all benefit if the Unionist cause recieved an injection of some lighter good humour, but certainly much less of the toe curling cartoons which just make everybody uncomfortable.
 
 
# jjmac 2013-02-04 23:08
Why has my last post been deleted?
Is this forum becoming so politically correct that it becomes pointless to comment?

[Admin - Your post was deleted because you referred to those you disagreed with as traitors. Your account has also been placed into pre-moderation. If you comment in that manner again your account will be closed.]
 
 
# rapid 2013-02-04 23:22
O/T Record power output from ScottishPower renewables. www.scottishpower.com/.../

Been a bit breezy hasn't it! This is pretty amazing when you think about it. I'm not affiliated to sp or anything but if we invest more we could have a week of 125% of wind energy and sell the remainder to neighbouring countries and turn Longgannet etc down a bit.
 
 
# mealer 2013-02-04 23:50
An excellent piece.And thanks to the admin for the excellent job they do of moderating this site.
 
 
# samizdat 2013-02-05 00:03
I have noticed in many political and current affairs programmes particularly BBC network productions that have an audience participation theme such as "Question Time",it doesn't take much to scratch below the surface to find the latent xenophobia in many of the audience it just takes some panelist to make some disparaging remarks about the French(as Dom Joly in fact did!) the Germans or generally Johnny Foreigner to receive a rousing applause and laughs,the fact that Scots are having the temerity to want independence is a great affront to them and so we now get the same treatment ,of course no doubt the audience is vetted just as in Scottish political programmes so certain individuals can be pinpointed to manipulate the flow of the programme in the direction they wish.
 
 
# theycantbeserious 2013-02-05 00:20
Suggestions on a postcard...but I would like to think the word "FREE" fits nicely!

"DO YOU AGREE THAT SCOTLAND SHOULD GO AND FREE ITSELF?" ......YES in 2014!
 
 
# jjmac 2013-02-05 00:37
Please accept my apologies. I didn't mean to offend anyone.
 
 
# velofello 2013-02-05 00:56
Question Time is pre-recorded so the "joke" over dumping nuclear waste in Scotlad was deemed acceptable by the national broadcaster of the UK.
Reference Alistair Gray's questioning of why so many senior jobs in the arts in Scot;are held by English nationals. seems to me the entry qualifications for the positions are at fault.
Scots is a recognised language so how on earth can a senior position in the arts in Scotland be awarded to anyone who is not fluent in Scots?
 
 
# Rabbie 2013-02-05 14:05
When A wis at the schuil, we war aye telt tae stop yaisin that common street slang an lairn tae speak proper. The ootcome o this wis that ye lairnt tae judge the intelligence o fowk ye met for the first time bi hou weel they spake English.
 
 
# amfraeembro 2013-02-05 00:57
@Breeks
"we just wouldn't be so thick as to put it on nationwide TV."
Question Time is produced by BBC Scotland.
 
 
# Angry_Weegie 2013-02-05 01:43
Well amfraeembro, that just shows what BBC Scotland is all about.

O/T I notice that a Hibs footballer has been charged with a racist offence because he tweeted "why don't you go back to your own country" to someone he was annoyed by. Just as well that similar rules are not applied to those English who post replies on BBC (and other) blogs telling Scots to go home. It could create a huge increase in the prison population.
 
 
# jjmac 2013-02-05 01:03
So it's ok for unionists to call Alex Salmond everything from Hitler to Napoleon and yet nothing is done about it. Newsnet Scotland, I am on your side, in fact i am donating at this very minute with a £50 donation.
 
 
# John MacIntyre OBE 2013-02-05 01:19
I'm not sure what the policy is about providing links on this website - and I've no wish to breach the rules. So for those contributors disinclined to believe that the subject of Steve Bell's latest cartoon was Alex Salmond and not Scotland as such you can check out his earlier work on the former by searching on "Steve Bell on Alex Salmond at the Leveson inquiry". But a word of warning - it is even more offensive about Alex Salmond that the most recent cartoon.
 
 
# Keef 2013-02-05 08:55
John,

He has come and said it was about Scotland.

First rule of when you are in a hole, is to stop digging.

Please do your self and the rest of the folks a favour and stop being plain silly.
 
 
# Mei 2013-02-05 11:31
Mr Obe,
Do you think that personal attacks are a legitimate tactic for the No campaign to use? Do you not think it will backfire on them like the blatant lies have?
 
 
# davidferguson1 2013-02-05 17:13
Quoting John MacIntyre OBE:
So for those contributors disinclined to believe that the subject of Steve Bell's latest cartoon was Alex Salmond and not Scotland as such you can check out his earlier work on the former by searching on "Steve Bell on Alex Salmond at the Leveson inquiry". But a word of warning - it is even more offensive about Alex Salmond that the most recent cartoon.
Actually, prior to the "Eff Off" cartoon, Bell's most recent portrayal of Salmond was as a scrounging Scottish jakey begging on the streets of London. No offensive quasi-racist stereotypes there of course - not in the "guardian" of all that is righteous and progressive.
 
 
# chicmac 2013-02-05 03:20
People should Google 'Stewart Lee youtube Scots' and do the reciprocity test.

For example, imagine it was say, Billy Connolly (a far better stand up in his day) saying the same sort of things about the English. QED
 
 
# jafurn 2013-02-05 12:09
A great article from Mr Bisset.
Regarding the 'cartoon' Imagine if you can the same piece with the word 'Scotland' substituted with the word 'Israel'
 
 
# pmcrek 2013-02-05 14:43
I know from personal experience if you point this out on CiF you will get your comment deleted.

It happened to me back when I used to read the paper before the last UK election, below the line commentors were discussing how England, (not the UK apparently) was secretly being run into the ground by a "cabal" of Scots. I thought the comparison to be quite apt.
 
 
# Tappietourrie 2013-02-05 15:42
I lived in the south east of England for three years and found the English people welcoming and I hold no animosity against them. I welcome them to Scotland as with other nationalities if they are here to contribute. My frustration is aimed at, as previously said by the author, the establishment. My experiences happened some thirty years ago and winding the clock forwards, the population of areas I once frequented are now populated by a multitude of different nationalities. I doubt if there are many indigenous English people left and therein lays the rub. Could it be that there is a certain degree of frustration and envy from our cousins down south when they see what we are likely to achieve and a resentment beginning to come to the fore. There may be an insecurity developing for an English nation and way of life that is slowly vanishing.
 
 
# Coinneach 2013-02-05 22:02
More than 35ish years ago I had the TV on and the sit-com "Man about the House" was on. I suddenly heard, for it was only on in the background, a bit of a joke and then the punch-line, "the Scots all live in caves". Cue laughter. Until then I had never thought of Scots-English-UK. Non political as they come.
I phoned the BBC Queen Margret Drive, to told it was nothing to do with them. Next day phoned the race relations shower. Nothing to do with them, said an Indian sub-continent voice. Scots not an ethnic group.
Sent letter to BBC London pointing out, apart from my anger, that, as others have done many times, if that had been an Indian, or Pakistani or Israeli mentioned it would not have seen the light of day. Plus ca change.
 
 
# Leal 2013-02-05 22:37
The Gaurdian could have construed this as an attack on The first minister, however when my national flag is used then it becomes a different story.
 
 
# indy2014 2013-02-06 16:09
Coinneach

Watched an old episode of Steptoe and Son. Harold wants to go abroad but Albert doesn't because they hate the British. Pretend you're Scottish then, Harold tells him, with all that oil they'll think you're loaded.

Prof. Tom Devine a while back on BBC London's Scottish channel, said for 300 years the English have been taught that British and English mean the same thing.
 

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