Friday, 27 January 2012 12:03
86 Comments
By a Newsnet reporter
An online survey asking registered readers their views on independence has been described as ‘confusing’ after it appeared to allow respondents to say Yes to two opposing options.
The survey, emailed to registered users of the Daily Record newspaper, asked readers three questions, one on whether they lived in Scotland and a further two on their views on the constitution.
The survey asked readers of the online paper: Do you live in Scotland? Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country? Do you want Scotland to stay in the UK or not?
However, the poll has been described as confusing with claims that the third question doesn’t offer a clear option and that respondents could find themselves blithely filling it in in order to become eligible for a £100 prize draw.
One recipient of the email poll who does not wish to be named told Newsnet Scotland:
"I was surprised to be asked to complete a survey which allows me to provide opposing answers especially when another poll is already being run on the Daily Record web site.
“I was also concerned about the incentive of winning £100. I feel that people may respond without full consideration in order to enter the prize draw."
The email also provides the recipient with an example on how to answer each question; the example shows a ‘No’ to independence for question 2 and ‘Don’t know’ to question 3.
The email survey follows claims that the referendum question revealed by the Scottish Government earlier this week is “loaded”.
On Wednesday, First Minister Alex Salmond revealed that the draft question was: Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country? The ballot, to be held in Autumn 2014, will offer the electorate the opportunity to opt for yes or no.
There are fears that the strongly pro-Union Record will use results from its survey in order to suggest the Scottish Government’s question is indeed biased.
An earlier poll on the paper's website asking whether readers supported independence or not was last running with 60/40 in favour of independence.
Comments
#
2012-01-27 17:24
Quoting VFR:
Why would it matter what the record thought
Why would it matter what the record thought of the question.
Why would it matter what the record thought
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2012-01-27 18:00
This is one of the reasons I stopped buying newspapers I have now removed all Scottish newspapers from my favorites.NewsnetScotland and foreign papers are now all I read,these I read on line.
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2012-01-27 21:02
Whilst i understand your reasons for not wishing to buy Scots Unionist papers you must remember that the record is the largest selling daily in Scotland so i would urge youto bookmark it in your favourites folder.
The reason being that it is a unionist paper and will be peddling the usual unionist myths to its readership so it is important that supporters of independence use the opion pages of the online editions of the unionist publications to counter these myths and get the truth accross to their redearship.
Each day i do my rounds of the comments sections and leave my counter arguments.
The Daily Record does have a facility to vote on comments, last week i posted a comment based on a newsnet scotland story on how Scotland subsidises the UK and left a link to the story, my comment recieved 117 votes of approval , the next nearest comment recieved 45 votes of approval [incidently that was also my comment
with the rest averaging circa 20 , so thats 117 ppl that now know how Scotland subsidises the UK and are now aware that newsnet scotland exists.
I URGE ALL PRO-INDEPENDENCE PEOPLE NOT TO ISOLATE THEMSELVES IN ECHO CHAMBERS SPEAKING ONLY TO THE CHOIR, BUT TO GET OUT THERE ONTO THE BLOGESPHERE AND [MORE IMPORTANTLY] THE UNIONIST ONLINE PAPERS COMMENTS SECTIONS, USE FACEBOOK TWITTER ECT AND GET THE MESSAGE OUT THERE TO THE PEOPLE THAT WILL HAVE TO DECIDE OUR FUTURE.
DONT WAIT FOR THE BBC OR THE UNIONIST MEDIA TO PUT ACCROSS THE ARGUMENTS FOR INDEPENDENCE.
REMEMBER THAT IN RECENT YEARS THE INTERNET HAS HELPED ORGANISE REVOLOUTIONS IN OTHER COUNTRIES WHERE THE MEDIA WAS STRICTLY CONTROLLED BY REPRESSIVE REGIMES.
THIS IS A LESSON WE SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO
The reason being that it is a unionist paper and will be peddling the usual unionist myths to its readership so it is important that supporters of independence use the opion pages of the online editions of the unionist publications to counter these myths and get the truth accross to their redearship.
Each day i do my rounds of the comments sections and leave my counter arguments.
The Daily Record does have a facility to vote on comments, last week i posted a comment based on a newsnet scotland story on how Scotland subsidises the UK and left a link to the story, my comment recieved 117 votes of approval , the next nearest comment recieved 45 votes of approval [incidently that was also my comment
with the rest averaging circa 20 , so thats 117 ppl that now know how Scotland subsidises the UK and are now aware that newsnet scotland exists.
I URGE ALL PRO-INDEPENDENCE PEOPLE NOT TO ISOLATE THEMSELVES IN ECHO CHAMBERS SPEAKING ONLY TO THE CHOIR, BUT TO GET OUT THERE ONTO THE BLOGESPHERE AND [MORE IMPORTANTLY] THE UNIONIST ONLINE PAPERS COMMENTS SECTIONS, USE FACEBOOK TWITTER ECT AND GET THE MESSAGE OUT THERE TO THE PEOPLE THAT WILL HAVE TO DECIDE OUR FUTURE.
DONT WAIT FOR THE BBC OR THE UNIONIST MEDIA TO PUT ACCROSS THE ARGUMENTS FOR INDEPENDENCE.
REMEMBER THAT IN RECENT YEARS THE INTERNET HAS HELPED ORGANISE REVOLOUTIONS IN OTHER COUNTRIES WHERE THE MEDIA WAS STRICTLY CONTROLLED BY REPRESSIVE REGIMES.
THIS IS A LESSON WE SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO
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2012-01-27 21:21
BEARING IN MY THAT IN A PREVIOUS UK GENERAL ELECTION THE SUN NEWSPAPER CARRIED THE BANNER ON ITS LOGO "SUPPORTING INDEPENDENCE" [THOUGH IT WAS A PLOY TO SPLIT THE LABOUR VOTE IN SCOTLAND] ANYONE KNOW WHAT THE [SCOTTISH] SUN'S POSITION IS NOW THAT INDEPENDENCE IS A DISTINCT POSSIBLITY.
WITH MURDUCHS NEWS CROP BEING DRAGGED OVER THE COALS AT PRESENT BECAUSE OF THE PHONE HACKING SCANDAL THEY ARE EVEN LESS LIKLELY TO BE UPSETTING THE UNIONIST ESTABLISHMENT.
WITH MURDUCHS NEWS CROP BEING DRAGGED OVER THE COALS AT PRESENT BECAUSE OF THE PHONE HACKING SCANDAL THEY ARE EVEN LESS LIKLELY TO BE UPSETTING THE UNIONIST ESTABLISHMENT.
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2012-01-28 00:10
Can't disagree with any of that "Dances" but did you need to shout? Ma ears! haha
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2012-01-28 00:58
The sun stated during last years election that although it supported SNP government at Holyrood it would "strongly oppose" any proposal for independence.
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2012-01-27 21:38
I coulgn't agree more Dances, I just couldn't agree more.
I should have added, use only the online versions, never pay good money for their efforts. Help to put them out of business while you use them.
I should have added, use only the online versions, never pay good money for their efforts. Help to put them out of business while you use them.
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2012-01-28 23:03
Also, install adblock and they'll get no revenue from your online visit too!
Edit: Remember to change the settings to allow ads for newsnet though!
Edit: Remember to change the settings to allow ads for newsnet though!
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2012-01-27 18:01
its not as stupid or a contradiction, I think they are trying to prove that depending on the question it will determine the outcome. The record is insulting its own readers plus the little bribe is just to make sure they get the result they want.
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2012-01-27 19:19
Absolutely agree with your first point, this is the interesting element of this poll.
People will be more likely to vote yes, whatever the question. I suspect that there will be some interesting output from this survey, with some people voting contradictorily .
A gallus SNP could go for the 'do you want to stay in the UK' question and run a No campaign.
People will be more likely to vote yes, whatever the question. I suspect that there will be some interesting output from this survey, with some people voting contradictorily .
A gallus SNP could go for the 'do you want to stay in the UK' question and run a No campaign.
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2012-01-27 18:03
Actually it does not matter what the Record though or thinks. What does matter is that the Record Readers though or think. Now, whether you agree, or not, subliminal auto-suggestion can influence people, particularly if thy are suggestible, gullible, stupid, just scanning the text or tending to be biased towards a particular viewpoint. Now I'm not, for a minute, saying that Daily Record readers are particularly suggestible, stupid or gullible but many could be just scanning the text. However, papers do tend to cater to particular sections of the public and thus will, perhaps, have more than their fair share of one particular section of the public.
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2012-01-27 18:26
The nationalist movement has over two years to argue its case and prepare the nation for an independence vote, irrespective of the question.
The Daily Record doesn't matter. Previous polls prove that their editorials don't even influence the majority of their readers.
We don't need to be be ahead now; only on the day of the vote.
We must continue forward in a calm and measured way at all times, and leave the hysteria to those who oppose self-determination.
The Daily Record doesn't matter. Previous polls prove that their editorials don't even influence the majority of their readers.
We don't need to be be ahead now; only on the day of the vote.
We must continue forward in a calm and measured way at all times, and leave the hysteria to those who oppose self-determination.
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2012-01-27 18:30
I don't read the Wreckord, but I just found this article and enjoyed reading it.
dailyrecord.co.uk/.../...
dailyrecord.co.uk/.../...
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2012-01-27 19:22
Quoting snowthistle:
Aye the north britsman banned me, was being polite but raised subject they didnt like
I was banned from the Daily Record comments quite some time ago :/
Aye the north britsman banned me, was being polite but raised subject they didnt like
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2012-01-27 20:03
I have been banned from Blether with Blubber, The Herald and here a long time ago
I am going to get them all made into Campaign Medals for when the Independence Parade, goes down the Royal Mile.
I am going to get them all made into Campaign Medals for when the Independence Parade, goes down the Royal Mile.
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2012-01-28 19:42
I wish we could remain above cruel personal insults like this. .. I find Brain's comments are often reasonably balanced ... shoot me down if you like .. but please point me to those comments from Brian that are anti SNP or independence or pro union.
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2012-01-27 18:44
Yes a good, interesting read. Prof 'Mystic Meg' Curtice also demonstrated his uselessness
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2012-01-27 21:19
Quoting farrochie:
I ass ume that was from the fiction section of the paper ?
I don't read the Wreckord, but I just found this article and enjoyed reading it. /
I ass ume that was from the fiction section of the paper ?
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2012-01-27 21:36
It's pirated from Oor Wullie I think rhymer. Thats Oor Wee wullie, the daft LibDem, the one that's a friend of Daft Boab.
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2012-01-27 19:20
I have to agree with some here, no more papers,Newsnet Scotland, that I tell all and sundry about,FB and Twitter.
One thing I have noticed over the last two weeks is the number of people who now want info. and want links.So many are just so taken aback by what they're shown that they now see Independence as the way ahead!
Still a lot of people believe and use newspaper lines as their own reason for staying in the union,but I have seen so many bubbles burst when shown just one FOI file or Youtube clip!Then I tend to leave them to work the rest out for themselves.
The truth is out there and people are finding it,slowly.
One thing I have noticed over the last two weeks is the number of people who now want info. and want links.So many are just so taken aback by what they're shown that they now see Independence as the way ahead!
Still a lot of people believe and use newspaper lines as their own reason for staying in the union,but I have seen so many bubbles burst when shown just one FOI file or Youtube clip!Then I tend to leave them to work the rest out for themselves.
The truth is out there and people are finding it,slowly.
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2012-01-27 19:25
The unionist campaign consists of nothing more than ludicrous scare stories that a 5 years old could discredit. They hope to repeat the success they had in winning the Westminster PR referendum, by swamping the independence debate with scare stories rather than debate properly but it wont work in Scotland where people are well aware of the unionists track record in telling gross untruths.
The unionists think that they have convinced Scots that the perceived wisdom is that a referendum cannot be held by the Holyrood government but that is not correct as we shall see. My money says that very soon we shall see the Holyrood government assert itself and tell Cameron to "get his tanks off our lawn" as they proceed to arrange the referendum quite legally by themselves. All the unionists are achieving by their behaviour is a delay to the inevitable.Report Unsuitable
The unionists think that they have convinced Scots that the perceived wisdom is that a referendum cannot be held by the Holyrood government but that is not correct as we shall see. My money says that very soon we shall see the Holyrood government assert itself and tell Cameron to "get his tanks off our lawn" as they proceed to arrange the referendum quite legally by themselves. All the unionists are achieving by their behaviour is a delay to the inevitable.Report Unsuitable
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2012-01-27 20:06
It is not just the Record that is at it, the P&J has really shown its pro union side lately tke today:
Danny Alexander asks "Why wait 100 days for referendum"
Ulster troubles could reignite if we vote for independence
Referendum question loaded claims some professor
Salmond accused of being like Castro
First Minister "finally agrees" to cross party talks.
Then we have the Opinion column where it claims that Alexander is singing from the same Hymn sheet as the papers readers, oh really? I must be on a different sheet, then again I am a Heathen! There is also a comment where it claims the North Sea will be the engine room of the UK economy for 50 years or more, although Unionists claim we cant base an independent economy on oil!!
Finally some Welsh unionist Lassie has an article where she claims her Celtic ancestry gives her an inside view on why we should not "sever links" with England aand states that oil may be around for only 25 years, maybe less. She really should read the editorial or the editor should read what he prints before making his editorial comment.
Danny Alexander asks "Why wait 100 days for referendum"
Ulster troubles could reignite if we vote for independence
Referendum question loaded claims some professor
Salmond accused of being like Castro
First Minister "finally agrees" to cross party talks.
Then we have the Opinion column where it claims that Alexander is singing from the same Hymn sheet as the papers readers, oh really? I must be on a different sheet, then again I am a Heathen! There is also a comment where it claims the North Sea will be the engine room of the UK economy for 50 years or more, although Unionists claim we cant base an independent economy on oil!!
Finally some Welsh unionist Lassie has an article where she claims her Celtic ancestry gives her an inside view on why we should not "sever links" with England aand states that oil may be around for only 25 years, maybe less. She really should read the editorial or the editor should read what he prints before making his editorial comment.
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2012-01-27 20:15
Are you've noticed that as well have you? Problem is that the P&J is owned by an English outfit.
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2012-01-27 20:12
The Daily Record are hedging there bets with this one. It is intended to confuse everybody in order to give the response they want. The only vote that counts is the one on the day and we'll work hard to ensure a YES vote.
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2012-01-27 20:17
Of course there is the missing fourth question from this multi-question multi-option email poll.
4. Do you read the Daily Record or not?
a. Mibbees aye
b. Mibbes naw
c. Dinnae ken
4. Do you read the Daily Record or not?
a. Mibbees aye
b. Mibbes naw
c. Dinnae ken
#
2012-01-27 21:22
Quoting Mac:
Don't need tae.. theyhave wee pictures
Of course there is the missing fourth question from this multi-question multi-option email poll.
4. Do you read the Daily Record or not?
a. Mibbees aye
b. Mibbes naw
c. Dinnae ken
Don't need tae.. theyhave wee pictures
#
2012-01-27 20:22
I do not support an extra question on the ballot paper and I very much doubt if there shall be one. However if there is it should be laid out like this
Q. Do you agree the Scottish parliament should have more powers YES/NO
If your answer to the above is YES
Do you think Scotland should become an independent country?
or
Do you think the Scottish Government should petition the UK Government to give the Scottish Parliament more powers?
That would establish exactly that devo max leaves Scotland in the position of a powerless supplicant
Q. Do you agree the Scottish parliament should have more powers YES/NO
If your answer to the above is YES
Do you think Scotland should become an independent country?
or
Do you think the Scottish Government should petition the UK Government to give the Scottish Parliament more powers?
That would establish exactly that devo max leaves Scotland in the position of a powerless supplicant
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2012-01-27 20:25
The debate on Scotland’s constitutional future is far too important to be left to politicians.
In fact the political parties should be kept out of the conversation until we the sovereign people of Scotland have decided what constitutional future we wish.
Political parties do not have a vote, even in the broken system we presently have, politicians have only one like the rest of us.
I would humbly suggest that a Constitutional Convention under the auspices of the Scottish Constitutional Commission is set up, to determine what should be put to the Scottish electorate in the referendum.
In his open letter to the Prime Minister, Kenyon Wright said:
“The Constitutional Commission of which I am president, which is politically non-aligned, has published a draft constitution for Scotland, and is initiating a nation-wide discussion not just of the referendum, but on the very different kind of democracy, already partly embodied in the present Scottish Parliament, we aspire to be. We hope to ensure that the options in the referendum are clearly understood as involving something more than simply a shift of political power. The people will, I believe, understand the full implications for Scotland's democracy of each of the options, be they two or three.”
A sensible and public debate is what is required before we take the most important decision in living memory, for Scotland and its people.
In fact the political parties should be kept out of the conversation until we the sovereign people of Scotland have decided what constitutional future we wish.
Political parties do not have a vote, even in the broken system we presently have, politicians have only one like the rest of us.
I would humbly suggest that a Constitutional Convention under the auspices of the Scottish Constitutional Commission is set up, to determine what should be put to the Scottish electorate in the referendum.
In his open letter to the Prime Minister, Kenyon Wright said:
“The Constitutional Commission of which I am president, which is politically non-aligned, has published a draft constitution for Scotland, and is initiating a nation-wide discussion not just of the referendum, but on the very different kind of democracy, already partly embodied in the present Scottish Parliament, we aspire to be. We hope to ensure that the options in the referendum are clearly understood as involving something more than simply a shift of political power. The people will, I believe, understand the full implications for Scotland's democracy of each of the options, be they two or three.”
A sensible and public debate is what is required before we take the most important decision in living memory, for Scotland and its people.
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2012-01-27 20:38
I may be impugning you, but if I recall you correctly you aren't in favour of the Referendum in the first place
I would also not offer Canon Kenyon Wright as a neutral party, his Constitutional Convention was marked in its refusal to allow Independence to be considered
I would also not offer Canon Kenyon Wright as a neutral party, his Constitutional Convention was marked in its refusal to allow Independence to be considered
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2012-01-27 21:30
RandomScot 2012-01-27 20:38
“I may be impugning you, but if I recall you correctly you aren't in favour of the Referendum in the first place.”
I have never said that I am against a referendum taking place.
“I would also not offer Canon Kenyon Wright as a neutral party, his Constitutional Convention was marked in its refusal to allow Independence to be considered.”
I am not offering Kenyon Wright as anything. I have suggested A Constitutional Convention (NOT HIS). The SNParty refused to take part in HIS CONVENTION. HIS Convention (Not him personally) asked the SNParty to take party but they declined.
“I may be impugning you, but if I recall you correctly you aren't in favour of the Referendum in the first place.”
I have never said that I am against a referendum taking place.
“I would also not offer Canon Kenyon Wright as a neutral party, his Constitutional Convention was marked in its refusal to allow Independence to be considered.”
I am not offering Kenyon Wright as anything. I have suggested A Constitutional Convention (NOT HIS). The SNParty refused to take part in HIS CONVENTION. HIS Convention (Not him personally) asked the SNParty to take party but they declined.
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2012-01-27 20:40
The debate does need to move away from the political parties being the sole leaders and commentators, but it is easy to understand how it has happened, as they are the ones who provided the manifestos for us to vote on.
In moving to a straight YES/NO debate, we should then get 1:1 ratio debating and no more 3:1 on party lines that we are normally seeing.
In moving to a straight YES/NO debate, we should then get 1:1 ratio debating and no more 3:1 on party lines that we are normally seeing.
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2012-01-27 20:54
"I would humbly suggest that a Constitutional Convention."
Of course you do you're a Lib Dem. That's what Lib Dem's do Conventions committees etc then ignore the results and go against everything that was advised. How many have we had now from the Lib Dems? Steele Committee, Calman don't you have another in the offing. Of course it's useful in delaying and flim flamming. Now that is what Lib Dems do best.
The treachorous Lib Dems stand for nothing and have us chasing our tails with endless conventions or committees anything to avoid making a decision.
A humble Lib Dem! You couldn't have a word with Moore, Wallace, Beaker, Scott etc They don't seem to know what that means.
Of course you do you're a Lib Dem. That's what Lib Dem's do Conventions committees etc then ignore the results and go against everything that was advised. How many have we had now from the Lib Dems? Steele Committee, Calman don't you have another in the offing. Of course it's useful in delaying and flim flamming. Now that is what Lib Dems do best.
The treachorous Lib Dems stand for nothing and have us chasing our tails with endless conventions or committees anything to avoid making a decision.
A humble Lib Dem! You couldn't have a word with Moore, Wallace, Beaker, Scott etc They don't seem to know what that means.
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2012-01-27 21:15
Islegard 2012-01-27 20:54
"I would humbly suggest that a Constitutional Convention."
Out of context remarks are dishonest.
"I would humbly suggest that a Constitutional Convention."
Out of context remarks are dishonest.
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2012-01-27 21:23
"Out of context remarks are dishonest." Like your use of Kenyan Wrights comments.
Lib Dems do dishonesty quite well too.
What policies do the Lib Dems have?
Lib Dems do dishonesty quite well too.
What policies do the Lib Dems have?
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2012-01-27 21:52
Islegard 2012-01-27 21:23
"Out of context remarks are dishonest." Like your use of Kenyan Wrights comments."
What is dishonest in using a quote from KENYON Wrights open letter?
"Out of context remarks are dishonest." Like your use of Kenyan Wrights comments."
What is dishonest in using a quote from KENYON Wrights open letter?
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2012-01-27 22:04
Quoting exel:
He was looking towards Westminster and the repulsive Coalition between the Lib Dems and the Conservatives I would say.
Islegard 2012-01-27 21:23
"Out of context remarks are dishonest." Like your use of Kenyan Wrights comments."
What is dishonest in using a quote from KENYON Wrights open letter?
He was looking towards Westminster and the repulsive Coalition between the Lib Dems and the Conservatives I would say.
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2012-01-27 22:43
Briggs 2012-01-27 22:04
“He was looking towards Westminster and the repulsive Coalition between the Lib Dems and the Conservatives I would say.”
You are perfectly entitled to that opinion Briggs. But what has your opinion of Kenyon Wright to do with my honesty?
“He was looking towards Westminster and the repulsive Coalition between the Lib Dems and the Conservatives I would say.”
You are perfectly entitled to that opinion Briggs. But what has your opinion of Kenyon Wright to do with my honesty?
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2012-01-27 22:13
It strikes me exel there is never much substance to what you say. I have asked you on many occasions to share what it means to be a Lib Dem what you feel they stand for. You never give an answer. The rest of your comments are at best picky without substance.
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2012-01-27 21:05
Exel, If you're saying that the SNP should not be allowed to set the question on the referendum, I couldn't think of anything more sleazy, cowardly and undemocratic.
I voted for the SNP because I want a referendum to take place and they were the only party offering that choice. They won the election fairly and squarely and have the democratic right to set the format and timing.
Again I reiterate, I voted for the SNP to do these things, not Labour or the Condems but the SNP.
It's a simple as that. Interference from other parties should be treated with the contempt it deserves.
I voted for the SNP because I want a referendum to take place and they were the only party offering that choice. They won the election fairly and squarely and have the democratic right to set the format and timing.
Again I reiterate, I voted for the SNP to do these things, not Labour or the Condems but the SNP.
It's a simple as that. Interference from other parties should be treated with the contempt it deserves.
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2012-01-27 21:19
tartanfever 2012-01-27 21:05
"Exel, If you're saying that the SNP should not be allowed to set the question on the referendum, I couldn't think of anything more sleazy, cowardly and undemocratic."
I am saying nothing of the sort. Read the post please. The SNParty are consulting.
"Exel, If you're saying that the SNP should not be allowed to set the question on the referendum, I couldn't think of anything more sleazy, cowardly and undemocratic."
I am saying nothing of the sort. Read the post please. The SNParty are consulting.
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2012-01-27 21:30
I understand you start of your post by talking about the debate not being left to politicians - that I partly agree with, i think there are wider bodies that can offer people an opportunity to speak on other issues, ie, I'm interested in the arts and would be keen to here some voices from within that community.
Anyway, you then go on to say that the Constitutional Convention should determine what is put to the Scottish people. By using the phrase 'put to the Scottish people' I'm taking it that you mean the referendum question.
I am incorrect in that assumption ? If so, what do you mean by:
Scottish Constitutional Commission is set up, to determine what should be put to the Scottish electorate in the referendum.
Anyway, you then go on to say that the Constitutional Convention should determine what is put to the Scottish people. By using the phrase 'put to the Scottish people' I'm taking it that you mean the referendum question.
I am incorrect in that assumption ? If so, what do you mean by:
Scottish Constitutional Commission is set up, to determine what should be put to the Scottish electorate in the referendum.
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2012-01-27 21:39
tartanfever 2012-01-27 21:30
“I am incorrect in that assumption ? If so, what do you mean by:
“Scottish Constitutional Commission is set up, to determine what should be put to the Scottish electorate in the referendum”
The full text was: “I would humbly suggest that a Constitutional Convention under the auspices of the Scottish Constitutional Commission is set up, to determine what should be put to the Scottish electorate in the referendum.”
“I am incorrect in that assumption ? If so, what do you mean by:
“Scottish Constitutional Commission is set up, to determine what should be put to the Scottish electorate in the referendum”
The full text was: “I would humbly suggest that a Constitutional Convention under the auspices of the Scottish Constitutional Commission is set up, to determine what should be put to the Scottish electorate in the referendum.”
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2012-01-27 21:59
I would humbly suggest that the people have had enough of these "Commissions" they have been used by the Liblabcons as a means to defend their precious union and thwart our aspirations for meaningful devolution of power. Calman controlled by westminster dependent placemen failed miserably so now we move on and in 2014 will take what would never have been freely given.
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2012-01-27 21:53
Nice to see you back exel,
I wanted to ask you how a non Independent Scotland can have a written, codified constitution ?
Who could write it ? and who could enforce it legally ? (as Moore and Alexander would want to know). Could it be challenged in a law court ?
I wanted to ask you how a non Independent Scotland can have a written, codified constitution ?
Who could write it ? and who could enforce it legally ? (as Moore and Alexander would want to know). Could it be challenged in a law court ?
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2012-01-27 22:14
As a Lib Dem exel feels Scotland isn't entitled to a "codified constitution" only the UK. Which incidently is very unfederal.
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2012-01-27 22:33
Jim Johnston 2012-01-27 21:53
“Nice to see you back exel,
I wanted to ask you how a non Independent Scotland can have a written, codified constitution ?
Who could write it ? and who could enforce it legally ? (as Moore and Alexander would want to know). Could it be challenged in a law court ?”
Hope you did not miss me too much,
As you very well know from my above post, there are several documents around for discussion, we are after all in the consultation phase, lets consult bodies like the Scottish Constitutional Commission.
As to who would enforce it legally, the Scottish parliament, if the Scottish electorate accept it as a condition of voting YES in a referendum.
“Nice to see you back exel,
I wanted to ask you how a non Independent Scotland can have a written, codified constitution ?
Who could write it ? and who could enforce it legally ? (as Moore and Alexander would want to know). Could it be challenged in a law court ?”
Hope you did not miss me too much,
As you very well know from my above post, there are several documents around for discussion, we are after all in the consultation phase, lets consult bodies like the Scottish Constitutional Commission.
As to who would enforce it legally, the Scottish parliament, if the Scottish electorate accept it as a condition of voting YES in a referendum.
#
2012-01-28 13:31
Islegard 2012-01-27 23:08
Are you suggesting as a Lib Dem you would accept an independent Scotland?
For the last time, I am not a member of the Lib/Dem political party and never have been. I am sick to death of this childish party political name calling.
Are you suggesting as a Lib Dem you would accept an independent Scotland?
For the last time, I am not a member of the Lib/Dem political party and never have been. I am sick to death of this childish party political name calling.
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2012-01-28 14:49
Hi exel,
I wasn't being facetious, I respect everyones views.
I believe that SCC's response will be considered but I think it is too much to expect that every view will be cattered for in the referendum. I don't have any problem with a written constitution. It has always been beyond the wit of Unionists, can't think why, but I'm sure it will come to Scotland with Independence.
Take care
Jim
I wasn't being facetious, I respect everyones views.
I believe that SCC's response will be considered but I think it is too much to expect that every view will be cattered for in the referendum. I don't have any problem with a written constitution. It has always been beyond the wit of Unionists, can't think why, but I'm sure it will come to Scotland with Independence.
Take care
Jim
#
2012-01-28 16:57
Hi Jim, likewise, but you do not address my main point.
What is important in the next few months, in my opinion, is not the views of Political Parties they simply argue, “Mine is better than yours”.
We do not need to know what they think of each others plan; they do not have a vote in the referendum, but we DO need to know what they are offering as the future constitutional position.
What is important in the next few months, in my opinion, is not the views of Political Parties they simply argue, “Mine is better than yours”.
We do not need to know what they think of each others plan; they do not have a vote in the referendum, but we DO need to know what they are offering as the future constitutional position.
#
2012-01-27 21:29
Q3 in the Daily Record is in fact two questions and cannot be answered one single answer. If you choose the 'No' option ios that not equivalent to a double negative.
#
2012-01-27 22:09
Some Lord or other caused a stishy during the week by suggesting that the Northern Isles be partitioned.
The Ba's burst if the (MacIan) MacDonalds claim back their right to "The Kingdom of the Isles"
A good claim I would say as we speak a different language and have our own distinct culture and would have a fair shout under UN human rights, especially if we set up a Federation of Nordic Northern Isles and Gael Western Isles.
Where would that leave the rest of you sheep worrying barbarians to the south and east?
The Ba's burst if the (MacIan) MacDonalds claim back their right to "The Kingdom of the Isles"
A good claim I would say as we speak a different language and have our own distinct culture and would have a fair shout under UN human rights, especially if we set up a Federation of Nordic Northern Isles and Gael Western Isles.
Where would that leave the rest of you sheep worrying barbarians to the south and east?
#
2012-01-27 22:36
Wow, thats some article. Telling it like it is...
What was the catchphrase on catchphrase again ?..
'say what you see' or something. Well thats exactly what that article is. Imagine something like that being printed over here in one of our daily newspapers.
What was the catchphrase on catchphrase again ?..
'say what you see' or something. Well thats exactly what that article is. Imagine something like that being printed over here in one of our daily newspapers.
#
2012-01-27 22:11
Surely the unionist daily record is scoring an enormous own goal by having an extra question on their online poll straight after the one the Scottish Government have posed which has baffled the unionist press by it's simplicity?
There is no place according to the unionist press and their politicians for a "second question" we have heard that so many times! Why insert a hypothetical second question-the answer is because the people who worked out this poll for the daily record are a bit thick and hypocritical!
They hope (in vain in my opinion and from what I observe) that the electorate in Scotland is as thick and as daft as they are.
Well we are not!
Therefore the daily rectum has clearly demonstrated with it's bribe styled "poll" what we all already knew...........that the unionist establishment is more keen to stick to a principle of talking down the referendum than debating Scotland's constitutional future.
Two polls for the daily record is fine and yet they have supported one poll..".............. the labour tory libdem alliance and media have shouted and shouted shouted for months there can only be one poll or there will be a nuclear war!............or something really bad if we had two questions........the media slagged off the Scottish people for believing there could ever be two polls!
Make no mistake- being told what is on offer for Scotland's constitutional change is not a clever Britadoon ploy- not when we have two and a half years to think about it, at least a year of that to allow civic Scotland, Parliamentarian s.............even the 70% of the Scottish public who constantly poll as favouring far stronger powers than on offer by the status quo to consider whether milliband and Cameron will deliver us Britishness uber alles?
I doubt that one.
There is no place according to the unionist press and their politicians for a "second question" we have heard that so many times! Why insert a hypothetical second question-the answer is because the people who worked out this poll for the daily record are a bit thick and hypocritical!
They hope (in vain in my opinion and from what I observe) that the electorate in Scotland is as thick and as daft as they are.
Well we are not!
Therefore the daily rectum has clearly demonstrated with it's bribe styled "poll" what we all already knew...........that the unionist establishment is more keen to stick to a principle of talking down the referendum than debating Scotland's constitutional future.
Two polls for the daily record is fine and yet they have supported one poll..".............. the labour tory libdem alliance and media have shouted and shouted shouted for months there can only be one poll or there will be a nuclear war!............or something really bad if we had two questions........the media slagged off the Scottish people for believing there could ever be two polls!
Make no mistake- being told what is on offer for Scotland's constitutional change is not a clever Britadoon ploy- not when we have two and a half years to think about it, at least a year of that to allow civic Scotland, Parliamentarian s.............even the 70% of the Scottish public who constantly poll as favouring far stronger powers than on offer by the status quo to consider whether milliband and Cameron will deliver us Britishness uber alles?
I doubt that one.
#
2012-01-27 22:20
DR pulled the poll on whether Scotland
should be an independent country when it
was about 60/40 for yes. Obviously they
didnt like the way it was going.
should be an independent country when it
was about 60/40 for yes. Obviously they
didnt like the way it was going.
#
2012-01-27 22:34
Excel seems to forget that the only time a constitutional convention has occurred (taking about 100 years after it was promised in just one instance) is when the westminster based unionists have eventually been forced kicking and screaming into it............
It is entirely different to have the position of an SNP Government capable of changing the uk constitution in a manner that I reckon myself and yourself would support over retention of the ridiculous status quo the unionists still ardent campaigning for.
It is thatt bad!
You appear to believe your enemy is those who are Independently minded yet there is only one shot at the little we have right now and that is what is on offer to Scotland in autumn 2014.
Campaign for that- there are many obstacles ahead just for that and the independently minded should be focussed accordingly.
It is entirely different to have the position of an SNP Government capable of changing the uk constitution in a manner that I reckon myself and yourself would support over retention of the ridiculous status quo the unionists still ardent campaigning for.
It is thatt bad!
You appear to believe your enemy is those who are Independently minded yet there is only one shot at the little we have right now and that is what is on offer to Scotland in autumn 2014.
Campaign for that- there are many obstacles ahead just for that and the independently minded should be focussed accordingly.
#
2012-01-27 22:36
It is a once in a three hundred year opportunity excel,
Embrace it and we are clever to sort out other things once we get a YES we are goosed for a generation if it is a no remember that over all.
Embrace it and we are clever to sort out other things once we get a YES we are goosed for a generation if it is a no remember that over all.
#
2012-01-27 22:38
The iPad spellchecker has rendered my comment even more meaningless than is usual.
#
2012-01-27 22:49
I can't be arsed quoting the pseudo Gael macgilleleabhar who doesn't quite understand the voting practices of his fellow Western Isles voters.
The MacDonal clan very famously supported King Robert the Bruce mate.
No doubt news to yourself that when it mattered the Mac Donal clan were pivotal in the eventual deliverance of Scotland as an Independent country that obviously included them at the very least.............or they wouldn't have fought for Scotland!
Next!
The MacDonal clan very famously supported King Robert the Bruce mate.
No doubt news to yourself that when it mattered the Mac Donal clan were pivotal in the eventual deliverance of Scotland as an Independent country that obviously included them at the very least.............or they wouldn't have fought for Scotland!
Next!
#
2012-01-27 23:03
O/T peeps
Announced on Facebook
A New Voice in Scotland
On Burn's day, the 25th Jan at the Quaker Meeting House in Edinburgh a new political group entered the electoral lists.
The SDA formally endorsed Alexander Wilson as a candidate standing for Leith in the local elections in May.
A local businessman, Alex is well known in the local business community and has been the driving force behind the recent successful campaign to have the historic Leith Flag returned to the Leith community by the office of the Lord Lyon of Scotland.
Alex says "working on your behalf I will bring practical business skills to the council, with domestic and international experience, gained both as an employee and as a small business employer.
Alex is supported by the SDA who will provide back office facilities such as printing and electoral administration support.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I thought the SDA were to remain an apolitical group until independence?
Announced on Facebook
A New Voice in Scotland
On Burn's day, the 25th Jan at the Quaker Meeting House in Edinburgh a new political group entered the electoral lists.
The SDA formally endorsed Alexander Wilson as a candidate standing for Leith in the local elections in May.
A local businessman, Alex is well known in the local business community and has been the driving force behind the recent successful campaign to have the historic Leith Flag returned to the Leith community by the office of the Lord Lyon of Scotland.
Alex says "working on your behalf I will bring practical business skills to the council, with domestic and international experience, gained both as an employee and as a small business employer.
Alex is supported by the SDA who will provide back office facilities such as printing and electoral administration support.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I thought the SDA were to remain an apolitical group until independence?
#
2012-01-27 23:30
Is there anyway Newsnet can get them to comment on why they pulled the other poll? The last I seen it was at 68% YES - 32% NO.
We've trounced them on every one of their newspaper polls. I KNOW we're going to win our independence back.
Countries don't vote against their own independence, that's jst daftness. I know there are a lot of them out there (dafties) but there's not that many for goodness sake!
We've trounced them on every one of their newspaper polls. I KNOW we're going to win our independence back.
Countries don't vote against their own independence, that's jst daftness. I know there are a lot of them out there (dafties) but there's not that many for goodness sake!
#
2012-01-28 14:05
My god! I cannot believe how a vote that was over 60% in favour just before it was pulled has been reported in the same paper as 54% against!
And that stupid "or not" question has been used to justify the assertion that Salmond's question is loaded!!!
I have really seen it all now.
And that stupid "or not" question has been used to justify the assertion that Salmond's question is loaded!!!
I have really seen it all now.
#
2012-01-29 00:10
I'm afraid you have not seen it all yet.
The union has no positive agenda/reason, so they'll just get low down and dirty, scaremongering and lying with the help of the MSM.
Poor Scotland, is all I can say.
The union has no positive agenda/reason, so they'll just get low down and dirty, scaremongering and lying with the help of the MSM.
Poor Scotland, is all I can say.
#
2012-01-28 14:12
I note they are already raising the possibility the "independent" Electoral Commission will change the question.
#
2012-01-28 15:01
Hi Islegard,
Looks to me like the Record is floundering in their own mire. It must hurt being on the end of a "good doing" which was all of their own making.
The Unionists have moved from panic to sheer terror and our MSM, Record incl., and BBC "Scotland" are all hands to the pumps now. The good ship Union is listing down to the gunwales already and it's still got to stay afloat for 18 months with no land anywhere in sight.
Looks to me like the Record is floundering in their own mire. It must hurt being on the end of a "good doing" which was all of their own making.
The Unionists have moved from panic to sheer terror and our MSM, Record incl., and BBC "Scotland" are all hands to the pumps now. The good ship Union is listing down to the gunwales already and it's still got to stay afloat for 18 months with no land anywhere in sight.
#
2012-01-28 20:21
It's really amazing .. these people are so prejudiced against an independent Scotland they will stoop to any level. The second question they posed was loaded for confusion. I find it absolutely disgusting that some Scots .. Scottish unionists would deliberately try to maintain Scotland in a subordinate position in the UK where our resources are continually squandered by Westminster. These are the modern day parcel of rogues.
#
2012-01-28 14:49
If they remove the "agree" part of the question, surely "Do you want Scotland to be an independent country" will be free of any accusations of loading?
This nonsense of separating from the UK should never be in the ballot as it's inaccurate, the UK will no longer exist so how can we separate from it?
We are separating from England. If they insisted on that type of question, I doubt they'll get a better result than they will from the Scottish Government's question.
Still shaking my head at that Daily Record poll and the subsequent article full of blatant lies.
This nonsense of separating from the UK should never be in the ballot as it's inaccurate, the UK will no longer exist so how can we separate from it?
We are separating from England. If they insisted on that type of question, I doubt they'll get a better result than they will from the Scottish Government's question.
Still shaking my head at that Daily Record poll and the subsequent article full of blatant lies.
#
2012-01-29 00:05
Maybe the SNP were trying to say it a bit more softly, so as not to scare the grannies or whatever.
The point to note is that independence is still the positive option, the 'yes' vote.
Oh, how I wish the people of Scotland will see the light!
The point to note is that independence is still the positive option, the 'yes' vote.
Oh, how I wish the people of Scotland will see the light!
#
2012-01-29 01:07
the wallace 2012-01-28 21:55
“Even though devo max was a trap set for the unionists,the snp need to be careful, and not get trapped by it themselves.”
I agree with you about the danger of being caught in their (own rat trap). The debate has shifted somewhat since the issue of the consultation.
Now the debate is about Scotland’s Constitutional Future, which must include Scotland’s present constitutional position.
The SNParty must now indicate what they envisage Scotland’s Constitutional position will be if we vote for an Independent Scotland.
Constitutional:
adjective
1.
of or pertaining to the constitution of a state, organization, etc.
2.
subject to the provisions of such a constitution: a constitutional monarchy.
3.
provided by, in accordance with, or not prohibited by, such a constitution: the constitutional powers of the president; a constitutional law.
4.
belonging to or inherent in the character or makeup of a person's body or mind: a constitutional weakness for sweets.
5.
pertaining to the constitution or composition of a thing; essential.
A constitution is a set of fundamental principles or established precedents according to which a state or other organization is governed. These rules together make up, i.e. constitute, what the entity is. When these principles are written down into a single collection or set of legal documents, those documents may be said to comprise a written constitution.
“Even though devo max was a trap set for the unionists,the snp need to be careful, and not get trapped by it themselves.”
I agree with you about the danger of being caught in their (own rat trap). The debate has shifted somewhat since the issue of the consultation.
Now the debate is about Scotland’s Constitutional Future, which must include Scotland’s present constitutional position.
The SNParty must now indicate what they envisage Scotland’s Constitutional position will be if we vote for an Independent Scotland.
Constitutional:
adjective
1.
of or pertaining to the constitution of a state, organization, etc.
2.
subject to the provisions of such a constitution: a constitutional monarchy.
3.
provided by, in accordance with, or not prohibited by, such a constitution: the constitutional powers of the president; a constitutional law.
4.
belonging to or inherent in the character or makeup of a person's body or mind: a constitutional weakness for sweets.
5.
pertaining to the constitution or composition of a thing; essential.
A constitution is a set of fundamental principles or established precedents according to which a state or other organization is governed. These rules together make up, i.e. constitute, what the entity is. When these principles are written down into a single collection or set of legal documents, those documents may be said to comprise a written constitution.
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