Thursday, 02 February 2012 17:49
217 Comments
By G.A.Ponsonby 
A new poll out today has revealed the extent of Labour’s problems in Scotland as it emerged the party has sunk to its lowest ever rating.
The survey, carried out by Ipsos Mori, shows Johann Lamont’s party now trail the SNP by a stunning 26 per cent.
The Ipsos Mori poll shows that 49 per cent of voters would vote SNP in a Scottish general election.
In contrast, Labour would be backed by just 23 per cent of voters, their lowest ever recorded poll rating. The figures would provide the SNP with their biggest ever lead over their main rivals.
If held tomorrow, a Scottish election would see Labour’s new Scottish leader Johann Lamont losing her constituency seat along with her predecessor Iain Gray.
The figures would see Labour losing eight seats in all and would result in the party retaining just one constituency MSP.
SNP Campaign Director Angus Robertson MP said:
“This is a very welcome poll, which gives the SNP our biggest ever recorded opinion poll lead. It is an enormous vote of confidence by voters in the work and the record of the SNP Scottish Government and the First Minister.
“These figures would see the SNP win 73 seats in the Scottish Parliament, while the other parties would be reduced to a rump.
“It is abundantly clear that Scots voters believe that the actions of the SNP Scottish government are the right ones. We are providing help for households in tough times through our social wage, supporting vital public services in the face of severe Westminster cuts, and we will ensure that the Scottish people are able to choose their own and their nation’s future in a referendum on Scottish Independence.
“In contrast, the unrelenting negativity of the Labour Party sees them fall to their lowest ever poll rating, which would reduce them to a single, solitary constituency in the Scottish Parliament. Scots voters obviously do not look kindly on the Labour/Tory pact to block Scotland’s right to self-determination.”
The poll also shows that 58 per cent of Scots are satisfied with the performance of First Minister Alex Salmond, giving him a positive poll rating of +22. The other Scottish party leaders along with UK Prime Minister David Cameron, in contrast, all score negative satisfaction ratings with Scottish voters.
Mr Robertson described the First Minister’s approval rating as “superb” and added:
“These are also superb ratings for the First Minister – any leader in Western Europe, never mind these islands, would give their eye teeth to have satisfaction ratings of plus 58 per cent, with a net positive rating of plus 22 per cent.
“David Cameron, by contrast, is minus 28 per cent. Incredibly, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg are even less popular in Scotland than the Prime Minister, and the opposition leaders at Holyrood are unknown. It is another powerful indication that voters continue to back the Scottish Government’s record, team and vision for Scotland.”
The poll is worrying for Scottish Labour coming as it does only weeks after the unveiling of Johann Lamont as new leader.
The party has struggled to come to terms with Scotland’s new political landscape and some observers have suggested the negative style of opposition, and the party’s constitutional alliance with the UK Conservatives, is making it unattractive to Scottish voters.
The poll showed some improvement for the Liberal Democrats who would gain six seats if the results were repeated in a Holyrood election. The Greens however would lose one seat along with the Scottish Conservatives.
Ipsos Mori polled 1,005 respondents, the results are:
SNP: 49%
Lab: 23%
Con: 13%
Lib: 10%
Gre: 3%
SSP: 1%
Ind: 1%
The projected Holyrood seats based on the poll is (Difference from 2011 in brackets):
SNP: 73 (+4)
Lab: 29 (-8)
Lib D: 11 (+6)
Con: 14 (-1)
Gre: 1 (-1)
Ind: 1
Comments
#
2012-02-02 18:16
If ignorant and irrelevent Moribund never makes another visit to Scotland, leave it up to charasmatic and intellectual Johann Lamont to crucify the last vestiges of Labour in Scotland.
When they implode even before May, we will be left with rump organisations fit for nothing and relevent to nothing.
The SNP will have the whole political field to themselves.
That, for the principle of pluralist democracy can only be a very bad thing !.
When they implode even before May, we will be left with rump organisations fit for nothing and relevent to nothing.
The SNP will have the whole political field to themselves.
That, for the principle of pluralist democracy can only be a very bad thing !.
#
2012-02-02 19:59
The three rump organisations could all unite to form a new Unionist party, Upspake. After all, they're all so alike you couldn't get a fag paper between them.
It would really just be a case of officially formalising their already existing Unionist alliance against the SNP.
It would really just be a case of officially formalising their already existing Unionist alliance against the SNP.
#
2012-02-03 01:23
Quoting UpSpake:
Never fear Upspake, if elections are a reserved matter as I suspect they are, then the poisonous triumvirate in the House of Lards, Foulkes, Forsyth and Wallace, will propose an amendment to the Anti-Scotland Bill currently slithering its way through the Westminster jungle, demanding that in all future elections every two SNP votes will only count as one unionist vote - in the interest of fairness and balance (BBC style) of course!
If ignorant and irrelevent Moribund never makes another visit to Scotland, leave it up to charasmatic and intellectual Johann Lamont to crucify the last vestiges of Labour in Scotland.
When they implode even before May, we will be left with rump organisations fit for nothing and relevent to nothing.
The SNP will have the whole political field to themselves.
That, for the principle of pluralist democracy can only be a very bad thing !.
Never fear Upspake, if elections are a reserved matter as I suspect they are, then the poisonous triumvirate in the House of Lards, Foulkes, Forsyth and Wallace, will propose an amendment to the Anti-Scotland Bill currently slithering its way through the Westminster jungle, demanding that in all future elections every two SNP votes will only count as one unionist vote - in the interest of fairness and balance (BBC style) of course!
#
2012-02-02 18:24
Think Ipsos/Mori polls are pretty good. However, I'll wait until SS has a look at it and see what he thinks.
SS, where are you ?
SS, where are you ?
#
2012-02-02 22:29
But is this poll really anything to shout about? Wasn't there a poll a few weeks ago that had the SNP on 51% to Labour's 26%? Compared with that, this seems like a (small) step backwards.
#
2012-02-03 01:50
That poll was published in the Sunday Express and was a UK National poll. The Scottish subset of 105 respondents was the one that gave the 51% in favour of Independence result. While the result was welcome, that small a sample contains a potential error of around 7%, so the Ipsos-Mori poll could actually represent a real increase in SNP voting intentions - and, in any event, it's much more reliable!
#
2012-02-03 04:58
There was (another Ips-Mor one, I think, different from the Express one on independence, Bobelix), but two percentage points difference is well within the margin of error. If anything the two together point to the SNP steadily polling at around 50%, and approximately double the labour vote. If you think about the election predictions from just over 12 months ago, that's pretty spectacular.
Of course, the only polls that matter are the ones where real votes are cast and we all know how quickly the sands shift so absolutely no cause for complacency!
Of course, the only polls that matter are the ones where real votes are cast and we all know how quickly the sands shift so absolutely no cause for complacency!
#
2012-02-03 10:22
"anything the two together point to the SNP steadily polling at around 50%, and approximately double the labour vote"
Yep.
Yep.
#
2012-02-02 18:21
[This comment has been removed. If posters continue to post remarks relating to a person's appearence then these accounts will be downgraded and may even be closed.]
#
2012-02-02 18:34
What amazes me is that the limited democrats can still garner 11%. Who are these people who vote for a party that lied to them, just so they could be the lapdogs for cons. It's amazing. Roll on the local elections. Maybe we should run a book on how many councils will be controlled by the SNP. I'm not sure how many they control at the moment...? Anybody know?
#
2012-02-02 19:02
eq,
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#
2012-02-02 19:46
I thought the same. Support for the lib liars who don't have a policy and don't stand for anything. Up!!!! Maybe people liked their party colour? At times I don't know which party to hate the most often it is the Lib liars though.
#
2012-02-02 21:52
Isleguard:
Sadly it tracks what I've been watching / expecting. The Labour voters are bouncing between SNP and Lib-Dem.
Put the increase of Lib-Dem numbers down to hard core unionists who now have no other option.
It appears to simply be now - not Labour, Tory is unthinkable and the Lib Dems are relatively anonymous, so a small percentage of disaffected Labourites are opting for anonymity.
Sadly it tracks what I've been watching / expecting. The Labour voters are bouncing between SNP and Lib-Dem.
Put the increase of Lib-Dem numbers down to hard core unionists who now have no other option.
It appears to simply be now - not Labour, Tory is unthinkable and the Lib Dems are relatively anonymous, so a small percentage of disaffected Labourites are opting for anonymity.
#
2012-02-03 00:24
Might I respectfully suggest that you're both wrong.
It's a seismic shift, nothing less, and that the polls are unable to support that?
At the end of the day, only the vote on the day counts, but it looks, right now, like a wipe out for the unionists. It's getting worse for them every day. We're part of the wave washing into shore; if you've ever been there, you'll know it's hopeless to attempt to fight it. The tide marches forward.
It's a seismic shift, nothing less, and that the polls are unable to support that?
At the end of the day, only the vote on the day counts, but it looks, right now, like a wipe out for the unionists. It's getting worse for them every day. We're part of the wave washing into shore; if you've ever been there, you'll know it's hopeless to attempt to fight it. The tide marches forward.
#
2012-02-03 12:35
It is just people with misguided loyalty. They will vote for their party no matter what policy they come up with.
#
2012-02-02 21:53
Quoting edinburgh quine:
Easy to answer, these are the ones who hate the SNP, cannot bring themselves to vote Labour and are scunnered to the back teeth by the Conservatives. They have no one else to turn to and will probably opt out of going to the polls come election day. When you have knocked doors and attempted to engage the general public, in political debate, you soon learn the depth of sheer ignorance of what the parties actually say they stand for and even more so for what they really do stand for. I remember the days when, in rural areas, it was, "folla the maister". The landowner, (even just a farmer), would lay on a horse and cart or tractor and trailer, and take the estate/farm workers to the polling booth. Anyone found not voting the masters way found themselves sacked and, with tied housed, (hovels), were left homeless. The vagrancy acts were still in force in the 1990s and were used at the time of the Highland clearancies to clear the Lowlands & Borders.
Who are these people who vote for a party that lied to them, just so they could be the lapdogs for cons.
Easy to answer, these are the ones who hate the SNP, cannot bring themselves to vote Labour and are scunnered to the back teeth by the Conservatives. They have no one else to turn to and will probably opt out of going to the polls come election day. When you have knocked doors and attempted to engage the general public, in political debate, you soon learn the depth of sheer ignorance of what the parties actually say they stand for and even more so for what they really do stand for. I remember the days when, in rural areas, it was, "folla the maister". The landowner, (even just a farmer), would lay on a horse and cart or tractor and trailer, and take the estate/farm workers to the polling booth. Anyone found not voting the masters way found themselves sacked and, with tied housed, (hovels), were left homeless. The vagrancy acts were still in force in the 1990s and were used at the time of the Highland clearancies to clear the Lowlands & Borders.
#
2012-02-02 21:57
Quoting Guy Dreich:
Do you have your pipes with, or without, salt?
If the Liberals went up 6 seats in an election I'll eat my bagpipes!
Do you have your pipes with, or without, salt?
#
2012-02-02 18:47
I've got to agree with UpSpake that, while I have no sympathy for Labour who are the architects of their own destruction, not having a credible opposition in parliament is bad for democracy. Wee Eck must be laughing all the way up the Royal Mile.
#
2012-02-02 18:48
Apart from not having anything positive to offer as an alternative to independence, I think Johan Lamont's main problem is the mentality that if you can catch someone out rhetorically, if you can selectively quote or win a semantic game, that people give a toss.
It misses the elephant in the room, which is that there's loads wrong with the status quo: no amount of point-scoring is going to start tackling that.
Then again, if you do have nothing to offer, what else can you do than look for smart wee nyah-nyah points to score?
One thing I like about Holyrood - on a good day, anyway - is it hasn't been infected by that silly public-school debating ethos that saw the Labour MP Anne McGuire humiliated in the commons the other night. Not only told off for raising her voice (which one may only do to bray scornfully or yell flippant retorts) the speaker specifically scolded her (as his good friend!) with every appearance of disgust on his face, for mentioning her mother living in a council house. The crime she committed was to raise her voice in a moment of genuine, almost desperate passion in defending old people who face being chucked out of their lifelong homes for having an extra room. She was laughed at (literally) for her gauche tastelessness.
I'm no fan of Labour, never really have been (though I confess to tactical voting once or twice), but if I'd had her number I'd have been texting her, THS IS Y WE ND WR INDPNDNCE.
It misses the elephant in the room, which is that there's loads wrong with the status quo: no amount of point-scoring is going to start tackling that.
Then again, if you do have nothing to offer, what else can you do than look for smart wee nyah-nyah points to score?
One thing I like about Holyrood - on a good day, anyway - is it hasn't been infected by that silly public-school debating ethos that saw the Labour MP Anne McGuire humiliated in the commons the other night. Not only told off for raising her voice (which one may only do to bray scornfully or yell flippant retorts) the speaker specifically scolded her (as his good friend!) with every appearance of disgust on his face, for mentioning her mother living in a council house. The crime she committed was to raise her voice in a moment of genuine, almost desperate passion in defending old people who face being chucked out of their lifelong homes for having an extra room. She was laughed at (literally) for her gauche tastelessness.
I'm no fan of Labour, never really have been (though I confess to tactical voting once or twice), but if I'd had her number I'd have been texting her, THS IS Y WE ND WR INDPNDNCE.
#
2012-02-02 19:03
Quoting Alba4Eva:
Well-connected 'acquaintance' has told me that Labour in Midlothian have already admitted defeat for them in May and that in Glasgow they are literally (her words) ' keeching themselves'....
LETS WIN GLASGOW !!!
Well-connected 'acquaintance' has told me that Labour in Midlothian have already admitted defeat for them in May and that in Glasgow they are literally (her words) ' keeching themselves'....
#
2012-02-02 21:20
'Labour in Glasgow are keeching themelves?'
It will make a change from keeching on others.
It will make a change from keeching on others.
#
2012-02-02 22:23
"She's burnin' up Cap'n.... i dinnae ken how long I can hold on?"...
"Keep those fires burning Mr Purcell, it's our only chance... just have to keep that evidence burning till May!!!"
www.youtube.com/.../
....couldn't help it *;0)
"Keep those fires burning Mr Purcell, it's our only chance... just have to keep that evidence burning till May!!!"
www.youtube.com/.../
....couldn't help it *;0)
#
2012-02-02 19:00
You can only but wonder what the poll would look like if we had a fair and unbiased media that reported the truth in Scotland.
#
2012-02-02 22:02
Quoting Alx1:
Ach! If we had an unbiased media in Scotland we would have been an independent country in the 1950s or 60s when the old great Labourites started to die off.
You can only but wonder what the poll would look like if we had a fair and unbiased media that reported the truth in Scotland.
Ach! If we had an unbiased media in Scotland we would have been an independent country in the 1950s or 60s when the old great Labourites started to die off.
#
2012-02-02 19:02
It is great to see a poll that finally shows labour incompetence.
I wonder how the bbc is going to play this one.
I wonder how the bbc is going to play this one.
#
2012-02-02 19:06
"A new poll released today shows the effect of the devious SNP propaganda on the poor, confused voters of Scotland"
#
2012-02-02 21:10
"A new poll released today shows the effect of the devious SNP propaganda on the poor, wee, stupid voters of Scotland"
There, I've fixed it for you.
There, I've fixed it for you.
#
2012-02-02 19:18
Quoting rhymer:
Their response will be along the lines of "Poll? What Poll?
It is great to see a poll that finally shows labour incompetence.
I wonder how the bbc is going to play this one.
Their response will be along the lines of "Poll? What Poll?
#
2012-02-02 22:04
Quoting Corriedug:
Nah! They will just not report ANYTHING about it.
Their response will be along the lines of "Poll? What Poll?
Nah! They will just not report ANYTHING about it.
#
2012-02-03 01:32
Quoting Corriedug:
Any chance of it getting a mention on Witter With Kay(e), or the next Blubber's Great Debate? No? Thought not!
Quoting rhymer:It is great to see a poll that finally shows labour incompetence.
I wonder how the bbc is going to play this one.
Their response will be along the lines of "Poll? What Poll?
Any chance of it getting a mention on Witter With Kay(e), or the next Blubber's Great Debate? No? Thought not!
#
2012-02-03 09:21
I'm betting that "Friend" Professor John Curtice will NOT be blasting from all trumpets across Wakey Wakey Jocks this morning......
#
2012-02-02 20:07
To answer my oQuoting rhymer:
To answer my own question - they ignored it on the 6pm evening news tonight.
It is great to see a poll that finally shows labour incompetence.
I wonder how the bbc is going to play this one.
To answer my own question - they ignored it on the 6pm evening news tonight.
#
2012-02-02 19:05
Throws a new light on the Vision Critical poll from Sunday with Independence support at 51%. I had assumed it was a rogue poll...
Perhaps not!
Perhaps not!
#
2012-02-02 19:08
Very welcome results. WEll done SNP and I have just recieved my membership card and will make a healthy donation to the independence referendum nearer the time.
I would quite happily sacrifice 1% support for SNP at this time if the polls had 70-80% pro independence.
I loook forward to the day when we have more than just one main party that is pro-scottish and I can vote for the party the mostly resembles my beliefs and principles. As it happens at the current moment excluding Scottish independence the SNP fit that criteria out of all the main parties.
I would quite happily sacrifice 1% support for SNP at this time if the polls had 70-80% pro independence.
I loook forward to the day when we have more than just one main party that is pro-scottish and I can vote for the party the mostly resembles my beliefs and principles. As it happens at the current moment excluding Scottish independence the SNP fit that criteria out of all the main parties.
#
2012-02-02 19:08
Not surprisingly, 85% of those supporting independence are satisfied with Eck. Even 34% of those opposing independence are satisfied with him.
Meanwhile, while 65% of Coalition supporters were satisfied with Cameron last August, only 61% of the much reduced number do now.
Meanwhile, while 65% of Coalition supporters were satisfied with Cameron last August, only 61% of the much reduced number do now.
#
2012-02-02 21:14
The Times (Angus McLeod) today gave a kind of perverted interpretation of its poll, headlining its article that Alex Salmond's popularity had dropped by 13% when, in fact, it had dropped by only 4%. However, it was still yards above the others.
#
2012-02-02 19:13
Other interesting factoids from the poll are:-
The rich support the Cons and the LibDems
AS and the SNP has/have a real problem with his/their appeal to women
An independence question was included and got 43% for 57% against
The rich support the Cons and the LibDems
AS and the SNP has/have a real problem with his/their appeal to women
An independence question was included and got 43% for 57% against
#
2012-02-02 19:14
of course they will play it down, they have to. Lets not count our chickens yet we still have a while to go and we must hammer home the advantage we have, to make the result beyond any doubt the more people who support the SNP complain to the media especialy the BBC, in my opinion telling them that 50% of this country supports the nationalists and they are not being catered for in the news/political comments and stories.
#
2012-02-02 21:36
Quoting rai1869:
Funnily enough I just got my letter back from the BBC about my complaint that Paxman compared Salmond with Mugabe and Scotland with Zimbabwe.
You will be pleased to know he was just kidding and Quote:
Comment removed by mods ...or it would have been if I had made one.
the more people who support the SNP complain to the media especialy the BBC, in my opinion telling them that 50% of this country supports the nationalists and they are not being catered for in the news/political comments and stories.
Funnily enough I just got my letter back from the BBC about my complaint that Paxman compared Salmond with Mugabe and Scotland with Zimbabwe.
You will be pleased to know he was just kidding and Quote:
was obscurely attempting to test how progressive an independent Scotland under the SNP would be
Comment removed by mods ...or it would have been if I had made one.
#
2012-02-02 22:35
Fungus, I got mine today, full of condisending platitudes ( I cannot spell that conde whatsit word.0 Anyway, I have replied, quoting , verbatim. Paxman's words, and complaining about their reply. It won't change anything, but it means they have to write b ack to me, using time and resources. Suggest everyone does the same.
#
2012-02-02 19:22
It appears David Millaband has thrown his hat back into the Labour ring.Ed & David are at War over the leadership.How this plays out in Scottish Labour after todays poll we will have to see.Johann Lamonts coat is on a shoogly peg she may not have the support to get through this summer.
#
2012-02-02 21:24
Johann Lamont and Margaret Curran. Labour's dream team!
I wonder if Ed Miliband is now realising the big mistake he is making?
I wonder if Ed Miliband is now realising the big mistake he is making?
#
2012-02-03 11:03
Did you see miliband trying to bound down a flight of stairs with lamont and curran failing to keep up. It was Hilarious like the Three Stoogies.
#
2012-02-02 19:23
The MORI poll only asks about the constituency vote. The "Scotland Votes" seat predictor translates these percentages to - LDs 2 constituencies (Orkney and Shetland ) : Tories 2 constituencies (Eastwood and Etterick etc ) : Lab 1 constituency (Dumfriesshire ) : SNP all the rest.
#
2012-02-02 19:23
Ipsos Mori polled 1,005 respondents, the results are:
SNP: 49%
Lab: 23%
Con: 13%
Lib: 10%
Gre: 3%
SSP: 1%
Ind: 1%
The projected Holyrood seats based on the poll is (Difference from 2011 in brackets):
SNP: 73 (+4)
Lab: 29 (-8)
Lib D: 11 (+6)
Con: 14 (-1)
Gre: 1 (-1)
Ind: 1
Forgive my ignorance but was this poll not on general election voting preference - what is the relevance to Holyrood seats? Has it not been the case that Holyrood voting tends to be even higher for SNP? If so this is surely a monumental milestone in the path to self governance!
What is the rule about number of SNP MPs and then polling for independence?? Can one of our more politically minded help out.
Looks like we might get the chance to collect and spend our own pocket money after all! Bring it on!
SNP: 49%
Lab: 23%
Con: 13%
Lib: 10%
Gre: 3%
SSP: 1%
Ind: 1%
The projected Holyrood seats based on the poll is (Difference from 2011 in brackets):
SNP: 73 (+4)
Lab: 29 (-8)
Lib D: 11 (+6)
Con: 14 (-1)
Gre: 1 (-1)
Ind: 1
Forgive my ignorance but was this poll not on general election voting preference - what is the relevance to Holyrood seats? Has it not been the case that Holyrood voting tends to be even higher for SNP? If so this is surely a monumental milestone in the path to self governance!
What is the rule about number of SNP MPs and then polling for independence?? Can one of our more politically minded help out.
Looks like we might get the chance to collect and spend our own pocket money after all! Bring it on!
#
2012-02-02 19:30
They polled on VI for Holyrood constituencies in a Scottish general election. It was nothing to do with Westminster voting.
Mind you, that level of voting for Westminster constituencies reduces Lab to 3 seats and the LDs 1 - nae Tories.
Mind you, that level of voting for Westminster constituencies reduces Lab to 3 seats and the LDs 1 - nae Tories.
#
2012-02-02 22:12
I would assume if a majority of Scotland's MPs walked out of Westminster and returned to Scotland then the treaty of Union is over.
#
2012-02-02 22:37
If these results were mirrored in a general election, we could forget about a referendum, claim a mandate for Independence, and declare UDI.
#
2012-02-03 12:55
Hi Morag,
That is why I voted to keep the FPTP system of election in the AV Referendum. We might well win 80% of the Westminster seats with 45% of the vote - just like Labour have in Scotland for the past 60 years.
I know it was wrong, but I just couldn't help myself!
Regards,
That is why I voted to keep the FPTP system of election in the AV Referendum. We might well win 80% of the Westminster seats with 45% of the vote - just like Labour have in Scotland for the past 60 years.
I know it was wrong, but I just couldn't help myself!
Regards,
#
2012-02-02 19:24
I watched Johann Lamont today at FMQ and cannot overstate how truly awful she was so I won't even try.
#
2012-02-02 20:39
Not according to EBC 6.30 news - they gave the impression that she had triumphed over ECK.
I thought Elmer Fudd was bad but Lamont is so lamentable that one almost feels sorry for her until the realisation which party she represents.kicks in.
It appears that Labour in Scotland have a deathwish.
I thought Elmer Fudd was bad but Lamont is so lamentable that one almost feels sorry for her until the realisation which party she represents.kicks in.
It appears that Labour in Scotland have a deathwish.
#
2012-02-02 19:27
I mentioned this the other day, but I haven't heard one policy being announced by Lamont. Do we take it then that she stands with Westminster on Trident, Uni fees, Prescription charges, Council tax hikes, care for the Elderly etc. ? I suppose we have to if we don't hear any different.
Since winning the leadership all she seems to spend her time doing is countering the SNP independence drive with the usual rhetoric- which is proving completely ineffective.
Add to this recent news from her constituency that she is never there and you have to wonder what she's actually doing.
Since winning the leadership all she seems to spend her time doing is countering the SNP independence drive with the usual rhetoric- which is proving completely ineffective.
Add to this recent news from her constituency that she is never there and you have to wonder what she's actually doing.
#
2012-02-02 20:39
unfortunately we have not heard what Johann Lamont's vision for Scotland is either though she asserts frequently that she has one.
In the Holyrood magazine, Mandy Rhodes, editor, having interviewed Maggie Curran mentioned that she talked in soundbites. It was then that I realised that all of Labour talk in soundbites; that in fact everything said is superficial and there is nothing else. Labour, the party of soundbites.
In the Holyrood magazine, Mandy Rhodes, editor, having interviewed Maggie Curran mentioned that she talked in soundbites. It was then that I realised that all of Labour talk in soundbites; that in fact everything said is superficial and there is nothing else. Labour, the party of soundbites.
#
2012-02-03 01:02
After watching her in the recent 'big debate' I got the feeling she had been away learning semaphore. Have you watched her hands while she is talking recently?
Is it that non-linguistic thingy I remember hearing something about a while back.
Seriously watch the debate and just concentrate on her hands .
Is it that non-linguistic thingy I remember hearing something about a while back.
Seriously watch the debate and just concentrate on her hands .
#
2012-02-02 19:29
BBC NEWS - SCOTLAND
Ipsos Mori Poll Shows Labour Support Shoring Up
An Ipsos Mori poll released today shows Labour support in Scotland holding strong, with Labour support possibly stronger than the Tory and Lib-Dem's combined. Johan Lamont said that; "this poll indicates that Scotland rejects the SNP separatist agenda of smarmy Salmond and his separatist band of separatist Cybernats." Lamont pressed this home with; "They are running scared now... so they ur... did I mention separatist?"
Jim Murphy came out of the cupboard to rattle.... sorry... rattle that Alex Salmond and the SNP had lost the argument and an often spotted professor of 'politics of something' from Glasgow university, confirmed that he; "Broadly agreed with whatever it is that the Labour party's position is."
The BBC tried to get a response from the SNP, but unfortunately left it to the new 17yo modern apprentice at Pacific Quay, who only started on Monday.... and never gave her the phone number for Bute House.
Ipsos Mori Poll Shows Labour Support Shoring Up
An Ipsos Mori poll released today shows Labour support in Scotland holding strong, with Labour support possibly stronger than the Tory and Lib-Dem's combined. Johan Lamont said that; "this poll indicates that Scotland rejects the SNP separatist agenda of smarmy Salmond and his separatist band of separatist Cybernats." Lamont pressed this home with; "They are running scared now... so they ur... did I mention separatist?"
Jim Murphy came out of the cupboard to rattle.... sorry... rattle that Alex Salmond and the SNP had lost the argument and an often spotted professor of 'politics of something' from Glasgow university, confirmed that he; "Broadly agreed with whatever it is that the Labour party's position is."
The BBC tried to get a response from the SNP, but unfortunately left it to the new 17yo modern apprentice at Pacific Quay, who only started on Monday.... and never gave her the phone number for Bute House.
#
2012-02-02 21:29
"this poll indicates that Scotland rejects the SNP separatist agenda of smarmy Salmond and his separatist band of separatist Cybernats."
Clever alliteration from the Labour dogs.
Clever alliteration from the Labour dogs.
#
2012-02-02 21:46
WOW... I didn't realise just how convincing that actually was!
...I could easily get a job with Auntie! LOL *;0)
...I could easily get a job with Auntie! LOL *;0)
#
2012-02-02 19:31
Say no to independence a new group being reported as a BNP organisation
www.britainfirst.org/scotland/
www.britainfirst.org/scotland/
#
2012-02-02 19:48
Quoting tartanfever:
There's definately something iffy about it, that's for sure...can't really see them fooling many people though
London phone number, address in Kent... it's got BNP written all over it.
There's definately something iffy about it, that's for sure...can't really see them fooling many people though
#
2012-02-02 19:59
Quoting balbeggie:
From what I can make out it's BNP supporters who are sick of Nick Griffin - some of the stuff on those sites would have even your most rabid Daily Mail reader cringing
same outfit, different name
thebritishresistance.co.uk/.../...
From what I can make out it's BNP supporters who are sick of Nick Griffin - some of the stuff on those sites would have even your most rabid Daily Mail reader cringing
#
2012-02-02 21:31
I just signed their petition....
Signed: Mickey Mouse
I believe that Scotland should be held back from overshadowing Disneyland by becoming independent and showing off that they have the best Castles (specifically better than plastic Disneyland ones).
You English must convince those dastardly Scots that your Castles are better... we toons in Florida are willing to send you lots of fibreglass, so that you can pimp your castles with 'body kits' for that purpose.
That's all folks!
It got up unmodded on their page... might still be there.
www.britainfirst.org/.../
Have fun *;0)
Signed: Mickey Mouse
I believe that Scotland should be held back from overshadowing Disneyland by becoming independent and showing off that they have the best Castles (specifically better than plastic Disneyland ones).
You English must convince those dastardly Scots that your Castles are better... we toons in Florida are willing to send you lots of fibreglass, so that you can pimp your castles with 'body kits' for that purpose.
That's all folks!
It got up unmodded on their page... might still be there.
www.britainfirst.org/.../
Have fun *;0)
#
2012-02-02 22:07
That 'deporting Scots to England' joke was too subtle... I bet you get past any modding (if there is any), cos racists like that are not normally renowned for their intellect. *;0)
#
2012-02-02 22:46
I like the wizard wheeze of keeping your chip fat to put under the wheels of the removal trucks - own up - which of you bams came away with that one :-)
#
2012-02-02 23:22
Just signed it too.
Jock McTeckle
Ward 15 using the post code above, then the number of tayside polis and the email JockMcTeckle@th emoon.org.Deport them to north Koria (deliberate mistake)
Jock McTeckle
Ward 15 using the post code above, then the number of tayside polis and the email JockMcTeckle@th emoon.org.Deport them to north Koria (deliberate mistake)
#
2012-02-02 22:25
I tried to find a button for finding out if card carrying SNP members could join, as it seemed a good way of boosting the vote for INDEPENDENCE but I couldn't find one.
#
2012-02-02 22:43
I found the bit where you can suggest a campaign. I have suggested that, if Scotland votes for independence, they should send all the Scotch in England back to Scotland. I have high hopes for success.
#
2012-02-02 19:34
They missed out a bit from their banner. It should have read "Scottish and British and Racist".
#
2012-02-02 19:52
Quoting oldnat:
Check out the 'Suggest a Campaign' section of the website - it's clearly some BNP/National Front website
They missed out a bit from their banner. It should have read "Scottish and British and Racist".
Check out the 'Suggest a Campaign' section of the website - it's clearly some BNP/National Front website
#
2012-02-02 19:59
The main names mentioned on the site are Paul Golding (former BNP communications officer), Jim Dowson (former BNP fundraising officer) and Gary Raikes (former?) leader of the BNP in Scotland.
#
2012-02-02 20:43
Quoting Jiggsbro:
In 2008, Searchlight Magazine reported that Midas Consultancy, a fundraising and management training company run by Dowson, had signed a three-year consultancy contract with the British National Party
The main names mentioned on the site are Paul Golding (former BNP communications officer), Jim Dowson (former BNP fundraising officer) and Gary Raikes (former?) leader of the BNP in Scotland.
In 2008, Searchlight Magazine reported that Midas Consultancy, a fundraising and management training company run by Dowson, had signed a three-year consultancy contract with the British National Party
#
2012-02-02 23:31
The far right have been literally ripping each other to shreds for about 2 years, they make the SWP look like a play date on a bouncy castle.
#
2012-02-02 19:38
"'Scotland says NO!' is a campaign to keep Scotland at the heart of the United Kingdom."
Feel free to phone them on their outer London phone number and ask them how many of the 12 people who've signed their petition are in any way Scottish. Or why their 'About us' section has a picture of some people holding a 'Britain First' banner with the English flag and three lions on it, and a picture of some (possibly) Welsh people holding a 'Welsh and British' banner...but no picture of a 'Scottish and British' banner.
Ah...found the 'Scottish and British' banner elsewhere on the site...being held by five (5) people. A powerful new political force, indeed.
Feel free to phone them on their outer London phone number and ask them how many of the 12 people who've signed their petition are in any way Scottish. Or why their 'About us' section has a picture of some people holding a 'Britain First' banner with the English flag and three lions on it, and a picture of some (possibly) Welsh people holding a 'Welsh and British' banner...but no picture of a 'Scottish and British' banner.
Ah...found the 'Scottish and British' banner elsewhere on the site...being held by five (5) people. A powerful new political force, indeed.
#
2012-02-02 21:28
Definitely BNP. Apparently these are the organisers -
www.britainfirst.org/.../
And this is their history -
Golding -
newsshopper.co.uk/.../...
Raikes -
nothingbritish.com/.../...
And lastly, but certainly not least, Dowson -
dailyrecord.co.uk/.../...
Lamont, Davidson and Rennie have some strange bedfellows.
www.britainfirst.org/.../
And this is their history -
Golding -
newsshopper.co.uk/.../...
Raikes -
nothingbritish.com/.../...
And lastly, but certainly not least, Dowson -
dailyrecord.co.uk/.../...
Lamont, Davidson and Rennie have some strange bedfellows.
#
2012-02-02 21:40
Theres a group on fb called United Peoples Party also pro unionist with I suspect dodgy links.
#
2012-02-02 22:13
Holy moley! I've seen some crackers Mato, but all that's missing is the armbands.
#
2012-02-02 19:33
I wonder if people will vote in the Referendum on party lines? Or, is this going to be such a unique event that many will put their normal party allegiances to the side?
#
2012-02-02 19:42
There will be voting outwith the normal party allegiances. There is a sizeable section of Labour party voters that will vote YES, also LD and a lesser amount of Tories, that will far outway any SNP voters who vote for us tactically. Thankfully the SNP canvassers have been gathering this info for a few years now and we can target them as election day looms.
#
2012-02-02 19:44
What is happening to Labour is no surprise. I watched FMQ's today in astonishment, as Lamont wittered on about the Knighthood of Fred Goodwin. It is hardly surprising Alex Salmond was laughing.
Fred Goodwin had his knighthood suggested by the former Labour First Minister, Jack McConnell, at a time when Labour were in power in London. RBS was under the control of the FSA in London, a body created by the Labour Government, and whose remit was under Labour control.
To this day, the Scottish Government has no role in regulating ANY banks, as this is done in London.
So, I say again, I fully understand why the First Minister was laughing at Lamont.
The problem Labour have, is that they seem to genuinely believe the Scottish electorate will fall for all this nonsense and spin, yet polls since 2007, have shown time and time again, that simply is not the case.
As regards independence. I cannot fathom the Labour party being opposed to it. It makes no sense, other than they see it as a threat to their electoral chances at Westminster, and a number of their MP's and Lords would lose their cushy expenses paid London second home lifestyles.
Indeed, I have yet to hear a good reason why Labour oppose independence.
Fred Goodwin had his knighthood suggested by the former Labour First Minister, Jack McConnell, at a time when Labour were in power in London. RBS was under the control of the FSA in London, a body created by the Labour Government, and whose remit was under Labour control.
To this day, the Scottish Government has no role in regulating ANY banks, as this is done in London.
So, I say again, I fully understand why the First Minister was laughing at Lamont.
The problem Labour have, is that they seem to genuinely believe the Scottish electorate will fall for all this nonsense and spin, yet polls since 2007, have shown time and time again, that simply is not the case.
As regards independence. I cannot fathom the Labour party being opposed to it. It makes no sense, other than they see it as a threat to their electoral chances at Westminster, and a number of their MP's and Lords would lose their cushy expenses paid London second home lifestyles.
Indeed, I have yet to hear a good reason why Labour oppose independence.
#
2012-02-02 21:11
I noticed today at FMQs while talking about Goodwin Lamont tried to refer to Salmond as the scottish govts version of Fred Goodwin.
I thought Lamont would last until may but if jibes of this quality continue she may not make it.
I thought Lamont would last until may but if jibes of this quality continue she may not make it.
#
2012-02-02 23:36
"Indeed, I have yet to hear a good reason why Labour oppose independence."
Quite so. The independence-minded Labour supporters were silenced. Now it seems to be sheer, dogmatic opposition and solidarity with the London leadership.
Am I being cynical by thinking that Scottish MPs and Lords are really thinking about their own SURVIVAL?
Quite so. The independence-minded Labour supporters were silenced. Now it seems to be sheer, dogmatic opposition and solidarity with the London leadership.
Am I being cynical by thinking that Scottish MPs and Lords are really thinking about their own SURVIVAL?
#
2012-02-02 19:45
Time for Labour in Scotland to support independence, but will they? Unlikely, but if they don't it could be oblivion. Is there anyone left in that party with even an ounce of wisdom?
#
2012-02-02 22:41
Haven't they formed a new Northern Ireland Conservative Party? There was something in the papers yesterday.
Things in NI seem a bit more lively than in Scotland, if that's the case.
Things in NI seem a bit more lively than in Scotland, if that's the case.
#
2012-02-02 19:47
Women live long than men
Older folk are more conservative with. Small 'c'
It is irrelevant in the Referendum vote.
Devo max can mean illegal wars based on a lie and Trident
Vote for Independence
Older folk are more conservative with. Small 'c'
It is irrelevant in the Referendum vote.
Devo max can mean illegal wars based on a lie and Trident
Vote for Independence
#
2012-02-02 22:34
Quoting Ken500:
Oh! Cummon! I'm pushing into mt 80s. \my next door neighbour is pushing into his 70s. The couple three doors away are into their 90s another neighbour is mid 60s all SNP for years, (and there are only a wee puckle of cottages).
Older folk are more conservative with. Small 'c'
Oh! Cummon! I'm pushing into mt 80s. \my next door neighbour is pushing into his 70s. The couple three doors away are into their 90s another neighbour is mid 60s all SNP for years, (and there are only a wee puckle of cottages).
#
2012-02-03 02:01
Quoting Auld Bob:
Well said Bob, and this 73 year-old "youngster" joined a political party for the first time in my life - I got my SNP membership card in December. And just last week, I convinced my dental hygienist to visit our Newsnet website, and to vote YES when the poll is held.
I also never miss a chance to inject a wee bit of humour into folk within earshot in supermarket checkout queues, or on the bus, by remarking in reply to folk complaining about bad weather, "Aye that'll be the SNP's fault according to the Record and the next BBC news bulletin ..." It usually gets a chuckle in response.
Quoting Ken500:Older folk are more conservative with. Small 'c'
Oh! Cummon! I'm pushing into mt 80s. \my next door neighbour is pushing into his 70s. The couple three doors away are into their 90s another neighbour is mid 60s all SNP for years, (and there are only a wee puckle of cottages).
Well said Bob, and this 73 year-old "youngster" joined a political party for the first time in my life - I got my SNP membership card in December. And just last week, I convinced my dental hygienist to visit our Newsnet website, and to vote YES when the poll is held.
I also never miss a chance to inject a wee bit of humour into folk within earshot in supermarket checkout queues, or on the bus, by remarking in reply to folk complaining about bad weather, "Aye that'll be the SNP's fault according to the Record and the next BBC news bulletin ..." It usually gets a chuckle in response.
#
2012-02-02 19:48
Pace Alba4Eva 2012-02-02 17:57
LETS WIN GLASGOW !!!
Let's win everywhere and be all we can be.
For all the Scandiphiles and others on here bookmark this site and be inspired.
video.denmark.dk
LETS WIN GLASGOW !!!
Let's win everywhere and be all we can be.
For all the Scandiphiles and others on here bookmark this site and be inspired.
video.denmark.dk
#
2012-02-02 19:59
I still find friends telling me that they vote labour because 'ma faither did' and although many of them are wavering it remains a hard point of view to overcome.
It occurs to me that there must be many ex-labour voters on this site. What caused you to see the light?
It occurs to me that there must be many ex-labour voters on this site. What caused you to see the light?
#
2012-02-02 22:12
KillieBoab:
Might I suggest you just ask them four questions.
1. Do you think you are too uneducated (being diplomatic) to make your own decisions?
2. Do you want to keep the NHS?
3. Do you want a center left "peoples" party in power?
4. Why would you vote Labour when they're helping get rid of all these items in England, and will force the same on Scotland given the chance?
Might I suggest you just ask them four questions.
1. Do you think you are too uneducated (being diplomatic) to make your own decisions?
2. Do you want to keep the NHS?
3. Do you want a center left "peoples" party in power?
4. Why would you vote Labour when they're helping get rid of all these items in England, and will force the same on Scotland given the chance?
#
2012-02-02 22:37
Quoting KillieBoab:
Nah! It's easy, but they need time to think about it after you lell them, "Aye! But neither Labour or Scotland is the same as when yer faither voted fir Labour". Look aboot ye! Whit div ye see?
I still find friends telling me that they vote labour because 'ma faither did' and although many of them are wavering it remains a hard point of view to overcome.
Nah! It's easy, but they need time to think about it after you lell them, "Aye! But neither Labour or Scotland is the same as when yer faither voted fir Labour". Look aboot ye! Whit div ye see?
#
2012-02-03 00:58
Sunny Jim, Winter of discontent, feeble 50 - Thatcher and the roll over regarding the brutal de-industrialisati on of Scotland, Brian Wilson, George Robertson (Lord), Galloway, Liddell (Baroness), Dewar, Strang, Foulkes (Baron), Dalziel, Lazarowicz, Darling, Begg, Brown (Ron) Blair, Martin (Baron), McConnell (Baron), Brown....stop, stop for the love of Mike, I'll be here all night. Not so much as Damascus moment more a long betrayal for personal position over the needs of the loyal Scottish voters.
Oil fund? No, no, no, better your children are in damp homes and poverty than we give you something to improve your lives. We've a robe to think of and besides the wife would never forgive me if she wasn't called "Lady" (only marginally better than "Rover" in my view - but that's just me).
Oil fund? No, no, no, better your children are in damp homes and poverty than we give you something to improve your lives. We've a robe to think of and besides the wife would never forgive me if she wasn't called "Lady" (only marginally better than "Rover" in my view - but that's just me).
#
2012-02-03 11:50
I wrote up my reasons for leaving Labour and even got it published on LabourHame. See www.labourhame.com/.../2541 I was very surprised when they accepted it.
Judging by the comments afterwards, there were quite a few folk who agreed with my reasons.
I didn't write the piece expecting it to have any effect on the Labour leadership, but to say to the "I vote Labour because my faither did" crowd that Labour is no longer the party that their faithers and grandfaithers voted for.
Judging by the comments afterwards, there were quite a few folk who agreed with my reasons.
I didn't write the piece expecting it to have any effect on the Labour leadership, but to say to the "I vote Labour because my faither did" crowd that Labour is no longer the party that their faithers and grandfaithers voted for.
#
2012-02-02 20:10
Labour opposes independence because they think we are too stupid to run our own country.
#
2012-02-02 20:30
To be fair they may be making this assessment based on their own capabilities and confidence.
#
2012-02-02 21:12
no its simply because they want those fifty west coast westmonster M.p.s without whom they would never get in to power in london. when they loose them they will loose interest in scotland Glasgow altogether
#
2012-02-02 23:55
Quoting colin8652:
Sigh! Propaganda myth. The last Labour Government in Wastemonster had a majority in the house even WITHOUT counting any Scottish constituencies.
no its simply because they want those fifty west coast westmonster M.p.s without whom they would never get in to power in london.inscotlandGlasgow altogether
Sigh! Propaganda myth. The last Labour Government in Wastemonster had a majority in the house even WITHOUT counting any Scottish constituencies.
#
2012-02-02 22:40
Quoting mealer:
Ye forgot a bit, "and they think they are bigger, richer and cleverer than you and know better".
Labour opposes independence because they think we are too stupid to run our own country.
Ye forgot a bit, "and they think they are bigger, richer and cleverer than you and know better".
#
2012-02-02 20:12
OT
It would appear Danny Alexander didn’t do his homework – again!
Student Loans chief 'to pay tax at source.’
Mr Alexander was repeatedly pressed on what ministers knew about the tax arrangements by Labour MPs and told them he was "not made aware" of any tax benefit to Mr Lester.
He said the terms and conditions were "negotiated by the appointing department" - in this case BIS - and he had simply agreed the salary level because it was over £142,500.
But Labour veteran Dennis Skinner asked Mr Alexander: "Which minister's going to carry the can for this mess?"
bbc.co.uk/.../...
It would appear Danny Alexander didn’t do his homework – again!
Student Loans chief 'to pay tax at source.’
Mr Alexander was repeatedly pressed on what ministers knew about the tax arrangements by Labour MPs and told them he was "not made aware" of any tax benefit to Mr Lester.
He said the terms and conditions were "negotiated by the appointing department" - in this case BIS - and he had simply agreed the salary level because it was over £142,500.
But Labour veteran Dennis Skinner asked Mr Alexander: "Which minister's going to carry the can for this mess?"
bbc.co.uk/.../...
#
2012-02-02 20:25
The Times they are a Changing
Those immortal words of Bob Dylan are worth noting, but there must be no let up in the campaign for change. In times gone by if the BBC or indeed the newspapers reported a story it was generally accepted as fact. To many of those families the Labour Party offered salvation from abject poverty, a vote for anyone else was unimaginable.
Today however, that thread has all but disappeared. Much of the corruption, law breaking and lying is perpetrated by Politicians. Even bodies like the Electoral Commission credentials are being seriously questioned, and some would say with good cause, and ballot boxes go missing in elections.
The electorate on both sides of the border look on aghast as details of the perks and privileges of MP’s and their relatives are sometimes made public. That many of these practices are apparently within the rules that they devise, only serves to compound the electorate’s anger. Attacks on pensions are a constant while the politicians award themselves with the best pensions in Europe.
The Union of Britain (it is not Great any longer) is now under great strain, held together by the duplicity of the likes of the Labour Party and those in the Establishment and those who benefit from it. None of the UK electorate is served by this anachronistic old boys Bullington club.
This is a club so unable to face reality and to shake off the imperialistic mind set that it still yearns to sit at top table with the superpowers. Support for the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan have been a folly of the highest order and many Scots have decided that they have had enough.
As Labour in Scotland and also in England to some extent, struggle to argue against Independence with a coherent argument, they utter language designed for the continuation of the Westminster monolithic behemoth. They are forced to present arguments that include smears, name calling, and of course the daily dose of scaremongering.
Most of our youth are not alone, as others are heartily sick of the sleaze and corruption now endemic with politics primarily south of the border but not exclusively.
They are not so ready to swallow the propaganda that their parents, grandparents and great grandparents did. Political changes in Scotland are causing panic and alarm at Westminster, and the youth of Scotland and indeed England, deserve the opportunity from 16 years old and onwards to vote and create a better life for themselves.
Scotland has probably the greatest array of natural resources of any modern country coupled with an established and widely respected education system and an educated electorate who are not going to be fooled easily.
If the people in Scotland shirk the challenge for change in the Independence referendum, then they will be viewed with contempt by those yet unborn.
Those immortal words of Bob Dylan are worth noting, but there must be no let up in the campaign for change. In times gone by if the BBC or indeed the newspapers reported a story it was generally accepted as fact. To many of those families the Labour Party offered salvation from abject poverty, a vote for anyone else was unimaginable.
Today however, that thread has all but disappeared. Much of the corruption, law breaking and lying is perpetrated by Politicians. Even bodies like the Electoral Commission credentials are being seriously questioned, and some would say with good cause, and ballot boxes go missing in elections.
The electorate on both sides of the border look on aghast as details of the perks and privileges of MP’s and their relatives are sometimes made public. That many of these practices are apparently within the rules that they devise, only serves to compound the electorate’s anger. Attacks on pensions are a constant while the politicians award themselves with the best pensions in Europe.
The Union of Britain (it is not Great any longer) is now under great strain, held together by the duplicity of the likes of the Labour Party and those in the Establishment and those who benefit from it. None of the UK electorate is served by this anachronistic old boys Bullington club.
This is a club so unable to face reality and to shake off the imperialistic mind set that it still yearns to sit at top table with the superpowers. Support for the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan have been a folly of the highest order and many Scots have decided that they have had enough.
As Labour in Scotland and also in England to some extent, struggle to argue against Independence with a coherent argument, they utter language designed for the continuation of the Westminster monolithic behemoth. They are forced to present arguments that include smears, name calling, and of course the daily dose of scaremongering.
Most of our youth are not alone, as others are heartily sick of the sleaze and corruption now endemic with politics primarily south of the border but not exclusively.
They are not so ready to swallow the propaganda that their parents, grandparents and great grandparents did. Political changes in Scotland are causing panic and alarm at Westminster, and the youth of Scotland and indeed England, deserve the opportunity from 16 years old and onwards to vote and create a better life for themselves.
Scotland has probably the greatest array of natural resources of any modern country coupled with an established and widely respected education system and an educated electorate who are not going to be fooled easily.
If the people in Scotland shirk the challenge for change in the Independence referendum, then they will be viewed with contempt by those yet unborn.
#
2012-02-02 22:48
One wee correction. Great Britain is still alive and well and it always will be unless we have a massive geological eruption.
The Term is geographic and nothing whatsoever to do with imperialism or deeds done. Great Britain is the geographic main island that includes Scotland, England & Wales. Like the term United Kingdom it will continue even after Scotland takes control of her own destiny. That one refers to our common monarch and can only end if we ALL become republics.
The Term is geographic and nothing whatsoever to do with imperialism or deeds done. Great Britain is the geographic main island that includes Scotland, England & Wales. Like the term United Kingdom it will continue even after Scotland takes control of her own destiny. That one refers to our common monarch and can only end if we ALL become republics.
#
2012-02-03 00:45
The term is geographic just an invented name not used before the union. However used afterwards to remind us all of who we belong to. Never mind after independence maybe we can have a vote for others to get a shot at inventing a geographic name rather than the brits. How about The Celtic Isles?
#
2012-02-03 01:20
The term "Great Britain" was in use as a geographical term before the Union of Crowns. It's a translation of the French term Grande Bretagne, which was used in French to distinguish the island of Britain from Brittany, which is called Bretagne in French. However it wasn't in common usage until after Jaimie VI inherited the English throne. Previously the usual name for the island in English was Albion, which of course is the same Celtic name which gave rise to the Gaelic name for Scotland, Alba.
#
2012-02-03 06:08
I had this debate with islegard previously. The question I asked (still not got an answer), was; Since every island in the world has a name, what is the name of the Island that my city of Glasgow is on?
#
2012-02-02 20:38
Have folks seen this?
bbc.co.uk/.../...
"But he [Damian Green, Tory immigration minister] said he was also proposing to set a minimum income level for any sponsor seeking to bring in a foreign spouse"
The Tories are going to decide who you marry now, with those 'Johnny foreigners' a no no....
bbc.co.uk/.../...
"But he [Damian Green, Tory immigration minister] said he was also proposing to set a minimum income level for any sponsor seeking to bring in a foreign spouse"
The Tories are going to decide who you marry now, with those 'Johnny foreigners' a no no....
#
2012-02-03 00:02
Now there is a great thought. Will the English impose a ban upon any Scot who is poorer than their standars after independence day?
I am. of course, kidding.
We, and they, will continue, (in spite of the propaganda), members of The EU. As such we cannot deny them entry nor them us. England could erect border cortrols if England continues with UK rules as the UK is not part of the Schengen Accord. I'm sure Scotland will sign up. Scengen is bigger than the EU by some way. Free border access - The UK has not. Just another reason for independence.
I am. of course, kidding.
We, and they, will continue, (in spite of the propaganda), members of The EU. As such we cannot deny them entry nor them us. England could erect border cortrols if England continues with UK rules as the UK is not part of the Schengen Accord. I'm sure Scotland will sign up. Scengen is bigger than the EU by some way. Free border access - The UK has not. Just another reason for independence.
#
2012-02-02 20:49
I seem to have overlooked this article.
holyrood.com/.../...
'No matter what your politics, no matter whether you have any, no matter whether you consider yourself Scottish, we are living in historic times. As the First Minister said as he launched the Scottish Government’s consultation, ‘Your Scotland, Your Referendum’, the bird has flown the cage and there is no putting it back.....
'This is not a time to be humble; this is a time to shine. Do you want to be part of a bright, ambitious and high-achieving nation or be humble; be deferential, be unambitious, be a doff-your-hat, thankful for what you’ve got kind of people?'
holyrood.com/.../...
'No matter what your politics, no matter whether you have any, no matter whether you consider yourself Scottish, we are living in historic times. As the First Minister said as he launched the Scottish Government’s consultation, ‘Your Scotland, Your Referendum’, the bird has flown the cage and there is no putting it back.....
'This is not a time to be humble; this is a time to shine. Do you want to be part of a bright, ambitious and high-achieving nation or be humble; be deferential, be unambitious, be a doff-your-hat, thankful for what you’ve got kind of people?'
#
2012-02-02 21:05
Can anyone provide an external link to this poll as the only one i can find on the ipsos mori site seems to say that the poll was actually conducted last August,
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2012-02-02 21:53
Probably conducted in the Canary Wharf region! where the 1% ers have squandered the wealth of Scotland.
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2012-02-02 21:08
Labour have chosen the wrong leader in Johann Lamont.
Listening to Ken MacIntosh the other night he sounds eminently more sensible and reasonable compared to Lamont who basically has no idea where she is coming from or where she is taking her party. This was obvious again at FMQs where she gave another dismal perfromance. Her questioning was lamentable (or was it Lamontable?).
Labour is the victim of its own contorted election system where basically McIntosh was preferred by it's MSPs but they were overridden by the Unions who chose Lamont.
Still it couldn't happen to a more dismal and incompetent bunch.
Long may Lamont reign.
Listening to Ken MacIntosh the other night he sounds eminently more sensible and reasonable compared to Lamont who basically has no idea where she is coming from or where she is taking her party. This was obvious again at FMQs where she gave another dismal perfromance. Her questioning was lamentable (or was it Lamontable?).
Labour is the victim of its own contorted election system where basically McIntosh was preferred by it's MSPs but they were overridden by the Unions who chose Lamont.
Still it couldn't happen to a more dismal and incompetent bunch.
Long may Lamont reign.
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2012-02-02 21:47
Jiggsbro -
I presume your vote was registered on your behalf because you are a resident of Scotland. Did you have any direct say in whom your union was going to vote for?
Indeed, was the direction of your union's vote based on any influence from furth of Scotland? Is there any way of checking?
I presume your vote was registered on your behalf because you are a resident of Scotland. Did you have any direct say in whom your union was going to vote for?
Indeed, was the direction of your union's vote based on any influence from furth of Scotland? Is there any way of checking?
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2012-02-02 21:52
"As a union member, I voted for her"
Can I assume that is recrimination against yourself?
Can I assume that is recrimination against yourself?
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2012-02-02 22:01
No, it's a boast. I looked at all the candidates, decided who would be the least capable and duly voted for her. If the Labour Party are daft enough to give me a vote, I'm going to put it to good use.
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2012-02-03 00:06
Quoting Jiggsbro:
Best idea today - I like that. As a shop steward and safety rep I did the same for over 15 years.
No, it's a boast. I looked at all the candidates, decided who would be the least capable and duly voted for her. If the Labour Party are daft enough to give me a vote, I'm going to put it to good use.
Best idea today - I like that. As a shop steward and safety rep I did the same for over 15 years.
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2012-02-02 23:40
Quoting J Wil:
MacIntosh is on just now, on STV. He has been following in Lamontable's lead, seperaate, seperation, seperate. ad infinitem.
What's more he's on about the Pound and, like, Lamentable implies the Pounf Sterling is English as is the Bank of England. Both quite untrue.
Listening to Ken MacIntosh the other night he sounds eminently more sensible and reasonable compared to Lamont.
MacIntosh is on just now, on STV. He has been following in Lamontable's lead, seperaate, seperation, seperate. ad infinitem.
What's more he's on about the Pound and, like, Lamentable implies the Pounf Sterling is English as is the Bank of England. Both quite untrue.
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2012-02-03 01:02
I don't doubt what you say is true,why then does Ken Macintosh not know these facts, and if he does, why say otherwise? lying to the people is not what can accept from our representatives .
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2012-02-03 08:19
@Auld Bob
All I was saying was that from Labour's point of view he appears to be more competent than Lamont. However, the lies and the spin are the same.
It is a revelation to find out there were an army of 5th columnists (double agents?) activating against their own union to put the worst candidate forward.
All I was saying was that from Labour's point of view he appears to be more competent than Lamont. However, the lies and the spin are the same.
It is a revelation to find out there were an army of 5th columnists (double agents?) activating against their own union to put the worst candidate forward.
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2012-02-02 21:17
You can feel there is something in the air in Scotland these days and if these poll results like this are correct indicators of whats to be, then it seems we are well on the road to self determination for our ancient nation Scotland. Its a choice of the same old same old or a chance of the dawning of a bright new era for our people, it really should be a no brainer. The closer we get to ouir independence, the more palpable our excitement will become with the hope of a better future for our people. Labour are being found out for what they are, for god sake they cant even put Scotland first even now and yet their very existence depends on it for their Wastemonster troughing. Tells us all we need to know. As for fmq, i sometimes cant bear to watch it as it resembles more like a cruelty sport for the Unionists with each passing week. We can win this and i beleive we will win, why? Because we have to, its last chance saloon time.
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2012-02-02 23:33
Agreed! .. If the people of Scotland vote 'no' to independence, we may as well erase the name Scotland from the maps and stamp 'England' from the Isle of Wight to the northern tip of the Shetland Isles.
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2012-02-03 02:23
Oh, I don't know. If it's that bad, what do you think the SNP's main manifesto commitment in 2016 will be? And I don't mean another referendum.
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2012-02-02 21:26
It was slightly amusing to see the Fred matter coming to its head today in Holyrood. You could see it building up for ages in advance. SO Salmond equates to Goodwin now and Scotland is RBS.
She got her bahooky handed on a plate for her though. And strangely enough, Reporting Scotland made a slight effort at impartiality tonight, with their inclusion of Labour relationships with Goodwin, and their responsibility under Blair and Brown for the whole financial mess.
I wonder if they have been watching everybody talking about them? :)
today also saw a poll by Lord Ashcroft over the referendum question. It left a hell of a lot to be desired.
I wrote a bit about it here...
.../whowhatwherewhenwhyand-how
She got her bahooky handed on a plate for her though. And strangely enough, Reporting Scotland made a slight effort at impartiality tonight, with their inclusion of Labour relationships with Goodwin, and their responsibility under Blair and Brown for the whole financial mess.
I wonder if they have been watching everybody talking about them? :)
today also saw a poll by Lord Ashcroft over the referendum question. It left a hell of a lot to be desired.
I wrote a bit about it here...
.../whowhatwherewhenwhyand-how
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2012-02-02 21:38
You just have to ask a Belizian national what they think of Lord Ashcroft.
Take this Guardian headline as an indication -'Lord Ashcroft of Belize' facing eviction as country turns on him.
guardian.co.uk/.../...
Take this Guardian headline as an indication -'Lord Ashcroft of Belize' facing eviction as country turns on him.
guardian.co.uk/.../...
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2012-02-02 21:43
The Unionists already have a fairer question, as reported in the Caledonian Mercury: .../diary-fairer-independence-referendum-question-emerges
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2012-02-02 21:46
Just to upset everyone I had a note tonight that Norwegian unemployment is down to 2.8% !!!!!!!
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2012-02-02 22:04
While we can all agree that the poll result is welcome, it is just that, a poll. I have posted a few times that the battle is with the Labour Party and that is where the pressure lies. As the debate moves forward we will have to be prepared for potential changes at the top of the opposition parties, esp labour. The SNP have to keep the pressure up, they have to keep their tactics flexible, and we of a self determination belief have to keep up the pressure on our friends and families who do not buy into the independence debate. By pressure I mean by providing the facts and access to the articles here and elsewhere that the MSM will just not report. The last few weeks have been some of the most interesting I can remember as someone interested in ' affairs ' but there is a long way to go and there will be some downs.
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2012-02-02 22:16
We should leave labour on the side-lines. They hate that more than anything, that will really make them blow up. I can hear the banshee howl from the usual suspects.
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2012-02-02 22:23
I thought the poll was an accurate reflection of what anyone with eyes to see could hardly contest, up till I read that the LibDems had increased their support......??????????????
That is about as likely as Cameron being voted the greatest benefactor Scotland has ever had, just coming in ahead of Maggie in the result.
That is about as likely as Cameron being voted the greatest benefactor Scotland has ever had, just coming in ahead of Maggie in the result.
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2012-02-02 22:58
I'm not normally big on the specifics of polls but the recent trends are all very encouraging. Johann Lamont's performance today typifies the dire straights Labour find themselves in. Bereft of policy, ideas, imagination or even talent. The empty rhetoric of the leadership campaign shown in all its spleandour in Holyrood. What was that promise about reaching out for dialogue and consensus? Where was the promise to end the bickering, sniping and namecalling? Alex Salmond the Fred Goodwin of Scotland???? Extremely mature debate from the Labour benches.
If you are a visiting undecided voter keep checking out related sites, look at the average quality of content, comment and argument, then look at almost any FMQ or indeed Labour Hame.
You know it makes sense.
Vote YES.
If you are a visiting undecided voter keep checking out related sites, look at the average quality of content, comment and argument, then look at almost any FMQ or indeed Labour Hame.
You know it makes sense.
Vote YES.
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2012-02-02 23:32
O/T, but have people seen this article in the Guardian about Welsh independence? Good comments too.
guardian.co.uk/.../...
guardian.co.uk/.../...
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2012-02-02 23:33
Why did Labour choose Lamont ?
Because they know the SNP have less support amongst women.
They hope that the female half of the population will sympathise with Lamont when she is batted out of the park time and again at FMQs
Sympathy vote. Pathetic strategy but its about all they have.
Because they know the SNP have less support amongst women.
They hope that the female half of the population will sympathise with Lamont when she is batted out of the park time and again at FMQs
Sympathy vote. Pathetic strategy but its about all they have.
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2012-02-03 00:15
Could be!
Eck famously said that Jack McConnell was no Donald Dewar. Indeed that he wasn't even a Henry McLeish. I would propose that similarly, Iain Gray was no Jack McConnell and indeed Johann Lamont isn't even an Iain Gray. Long may the pattern continue...
Eck famously said that Jack McConnell was no Donald Dewar. Indeed that he wasn't even a Henry McLeish. I would propose that similarly, Iain Gray was no Jack McConnell and indeed Johann Lamont isn't even an Iain Gray. Long may the pattern continue...
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2012-02-03 00:15
Maybe, but the other natural contender got their marching orders in May. I think it simply was her turn.
Relistened to fmq tonight and it was just as cringeworthy as earlier on. Blubber's summation was grudging fair the opposition chose the wrong attack strategy.
AS is however far too gentle with The two ms's Lamont & Ruthless in my opinion, so your point may be correct to some extent.
Relistened to fmq tonight and it was just as cringeworthy as earlier on. Blubber's summation was grudging fair the opposition chose the wrong attack strategy.
AS is however far too gentle with The two ms's Lamont & Ruthless in my opinion, so your point may be correct to some extent.
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2012-02-03 00:40
Quoting call me dave:
If AS is too brutal there will, no doubt, be a backlash from those who are either female or feel females should be treated kindly. AS, as we all know, is not stupid. I think his method is correct. After all most here think the two, if you will excuse the term, ladies, make enough mistakes and spout enough really stupid points that AS has good answers for. The two leaders, and Willie Rennie, are made to look daft but, more to the point, they bring up the subjects that many people seem to think are good points AGAINS independence and a fair and just reply that explains the truth must get through to viewers/listners and if there are just a few made to think, then AS has done the job he is there to do.
AS is however far too gentle with The two ms's Lamont & Ruthless in my opinion, so your point may be correct to some extent.
If AS is too brutal there will, no doubt, be a backlash from those who are either female or feel females should be treated kindly. AS, as we all know, is not stupid. I think his method is correct. After all most here think the two, if you will excuse the term, ladies, make enough mistakes and spout enough really stupid points that AS has good answers for. The two leaders, and Willie Rennie, are made to look daft but, more to the point, they bring up the subjects that many people seem to think are good points AGAINS independence and a fair and just reply that explains the truth must get through to viewers/listners and if there are just a few made to think, then AS has done the job he is there to do.
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2012-02-03 15:44
That's unfair. Annabelle was actually funny. She was also willing to actually work with people and had a brain. Ruth reads from pre-prepared scripts and is only interested in trying to score points against Alex Salmond, and failing miserably at it.
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2012-02-03 00:29
Just watched Curtice on Newsnight.How does this guy get away with it?
Having spent the last few weeks talking about support for independence being around a third or less he now talks about recent polls at 40,41,39 per cent and describes them as showing no meaningful difference in the support for independence. He also manages to state that increasing support for the SNP is unlikely to impact on the referendum debate.
Nobody asks him,and he does not volunteer how Labour polling the worst result in history is likely to impact.
This was like watching the Soviet News Agency. Time for a mass demonstration outside the BBC methinks, twenty or thirty thousand outside should do it and attract the sort of world wide publicity the BBC would find incredibly embarrassing to their reputation.
Having spent the last few weeks talking about support for independence being around a third or less he now talks about recent polls at 40,41,39 per cent and describes them as showing no meaningful difference in the support for independence. He also manages to state that increasing support for the SNP is unlikely to impact on the referendum debate.
Nobody asks him,and he does not volunteer how Labour polling the worst result in history is likely to impact.
This was like watching the Soviet News Agency. Time for a mass demonstration outside the BBC methinks, twenty or thirty thousand outside should do it and attract the sort of world wide publicity the BBC would find incredibly embarrassing to their reputation.
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2012-02-03 00:32
Prof. Curtis on Newsnight appears to be the new leader of the 'NO' campaign.
I cannot believe that from a few weeks ago when he was quoting 30-33% in favour of Independence, that 40%+ now, according to him is NOT an upwards trend!!!!!
I am literaly stunned by his partisan mis-reporting
I cannot believe that from a few weeks ago when he was quoting 30-33% in favour of Independence, that 40%+ now, according to him is NOT an upwards trend!!!!!
I am literaly stunned by his partisan mis-reporting
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2012-02-03 00:49
Quoting Embra:
The more he chunters this rubbish the more there are who watch him and see the obvious errors of truth and bias. A person with doubts who notices will waver. A die hard who noticies will not waver but will begin to doubt. Anyone who does not notice is probably past changing. Remember only those with an interest in politics watch. Most of the rest are listening to the kind of music that has deafened them anyway or are watching, "Desparate something or others", or out at the Bingo.
I am literaly stunned by his partisan mis-reporting
The more he chunters this rubbish the more there are who watch him and see the obvious errors of truth and bias. A person with doubts who notices will waver. A die hard who noticies will not waver but will begin to doubt. Anyone who does not notice is probably past changing. Remember only those with an interest in politics watch. Most of the rest are listening to the kind of music that has deafened them anyway or are watching, "Desparate something or others", or out at the Bingo.
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2012-02-03 09:15
You have to remember where Curtis gets his income from. Also, does he do better personally from retaining the Union?.
His partiality means thet he is no longer a true academic. He has burned his boats there.
His partiality means thet he is no longer a true academic. He has burned his boats there.
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2012-02-03 15:12
Could someone buy that Prof Curtice a square meal and take his bottle of buckfast away.
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2012-02-03 00:59
Ken Mcintosh is a slippery character, although less offensive to the senses in comparison to Ms Lamont he employs the typical tactics of scaremongering, attempts at confusions, obstuificating and outright lies.
Jamie Hepburn didn't do well enough to refute his points but I could see the exasperation in his face at trying to answer these illogical questions. I perhaps would have struggled to have kept my tmeper, perhaps why Alex Neill or Mike Russell are not often asked to to appear on these programs.
He implies that a nation without currency independence is not independence at all without mentioning that 67 of the nations throughout the world are in a monetary union. He carefully forgets that monetary independence is trivial in comparison to the other advantages that independece will bring including the ability to raise our own taxes and setting the parameters. Competing at the world stage as a nation whether that be as a member of the UN or in sporting events in having our own olympics team. Forgetting that indepepdence means dealing with the international community, representing ourselves and making such decisions as whether to go to war or not. The guy is either an absolute moron or is intentionally lieing as to confuse the viewers and electorate.
Secondly lets look at Scotland's current monetary situation. We are regulated by the BANK OF ENGLAND JUST NOW. I suppose there is a bit of a misonomer with the name as it implies (like the BOS and HBOS) that is the national bank of name. The BoE is the central bank of the UK and after independence will become the central bank of Scotland and rUK. As it is an independent public organisation it sets monetary policy outwith the chancellor and Westminster. Therefore Scotlands 8.4% of the UK's population has zero or neglible effect on policy such as rates of inflation etc.
I do understand that it may annoy people that we won't have a National bank of Scotland with out own currency initially pegged to the pound but I suspect this may be illegal under EU law and this is why the SNP have not advanced this particular avenue. The other idea would be to join the Euro but this would not go down well with the Scottish public because of its perceived toxicity (perhaps unfairly) so therefore we are left with the only option of staying with the status quo regarding monetary regulation. Its not ideal but its hardly a deal breaker, there will be no difference to the current situation.
Jamie Hepburn didn't do well enough to refute his points but I could see the exasperation in his face at trying to answer these illogical questions. I perhaps would have struggled to have kept my tmeper, perhaps why Alex Neill or Mike Russell are not often asked to to appear on these programs.
He implies that a nation without currency independence is not independence at all without mentioning that 67 of the nations throughout the world are in a monetary union. He carefully forgets that monetary independence is trivial in comparison to the other advantages that independece will bring including the ability to raise our own taxes and setting the parameters. Competing at the world stage as a nation whether that be as a member of the UN or in sporting events in having our own olympics team. Forgetting that indepepdence means dealing with the international community, representing ourselves and making such decisions as whether to go to war or not. The guy is either an absolute moron or is intentionally lieing as to confuse the viewers and electorate.
Secondly lets look at Scotland's current monetary situation. We are regulated by the BANK OF ENGLAND JUST NOW. I suppose there is a bit of a misonomer with the name as it implies (like the BOS and HBOS) that is the national bank of name. The BoE is the central bank of the UK and after independence will become the central bank of Scotland and rUK. As it is an independent public organisation it sets monetary policy outwith the chancellor and Westminster. Therefore Scotlands 8.4% of the UK's population has zero or neglible effect on policy such as rates of inflation etc.
I do understand that it may annoy people that we won't have a National bank of Scotland with out own currency initially pegged to the pound but I suspect this may be illegal under EU law and this is why the SNP have not advanced this particular avenue. The other idea would be to join the Euro but this would not go down well with the Scottish public because of its perceived toxicity (perhaps unfairly) so therefore we are left with the only option of staying with the status quo regarding monetary regulation. Its not ideal but its hardly a deal breaker, there will be no difference to the current situation.
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2012-02-03 05:22
"The BoE is the central bank of the UK and after independence will become the central bank of Scotland and rUK. As it is an independent public organisation it sets monetary policy outwith the chancellor and Westminster. Therefore Scotlands 8.4% of the UK's population has zero or neglible"
If I may make a small but hugely important point here. The Bank of England is not an independent public body, it is a private corporation, as is the Federal Reserve in the US, along with many central banks in the world. BofE was briefly nationalised between 1946 and 1997, only 50 years out of its over 300 years history. These unelected and unaccountable private conmpanies run the world's monetary policy,and are free to cause boom and bust scenarios whenever it suits their purpose. Most people think that their respective governments control their economies, but this is a total misunderstandin g of global banking. Governments control fiscal policy, not monetary policy. Basically these central banks control governments and by extension the people. The world is in economic meltdown because of the action of private bankers. Scotland will be subject to the whim of these manipulators unless it creates its own publicly-owned central bank. It's possible, but I would think unlikely.Do we have the courage to initiate the revolution in banking that is required to create a fair and workable society?
If I may make a small but hugely important point here. The Bank of England is not an independent public body, it is a private corporation, as is the Federal Reserve in the US, along with many central banks in the world. BofE was briefly nationalised between 1946 and 1997, only 50 years out of its over 300 years history. These unelected and unaccountable private conmpanies run the world's monetary policy,and are free to cause boom and bust scenarios whenever it suits their purpose. Most people think that their respective governments control their economies, but this is a total misunderstandin g of global banking. Governments control fiscal policy, not monetary policy. Basically these central banks control governments and by extension the people. The world is in economic meltdown because of the action of private bankers. Scotland will be subject to the whim of these manipulators unless it creates its own publicly-owned central bank. It's possible, but I would think unlikely.Do we have the courage to initiate the revolution in banking that is required to create a fair and workable society?
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2012-02-03 13:22
"Do we have the courage to initiate the revolution in banking that is required to create a fair and workable society?"
I hope so Judy. Scotland needs its own publicly owned central bank and it needs to issue its own currency.
I hope so Judy. Scotland needs its own publicly owned central bank and it needs to issue its own currency.
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2012-02-03 01:24
O/T I see things are really turning nasty, the unionists have brought out Midwinter from their closet to attack independence
scotsman.com/.../...
He wants the Office of Budget Responsibility (OBR)to produce economic forecasts and data in the run-up to the referendum. Of curse coming from London they will be slanted, which is the main idea.
Curran has also got in the act, who is asking the Treasuries body to get involved.
The piece and what the s called Proffesor comes out with is quite nauseating
scotsman.com/.../...
He wants the Office of Budget Responsibility (OBR)to produce economic forecasts and data in the run-up to the referendum. Of curse coming from London they will be slanted, which is the main idea.
Curran has also got in the act, who is asking the Treasuries body to get involved.
The piece and what the s called Proffesor comes out with is quite nauseating
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2012-02-03 02:24
I'm not so sure this is so bad. I know Midwinter is a rabid dependist but he may have put a bullet in his foot with this suggestion.
By all means let the OBR do their economic forecast. As long as it is in accordance with the accounting/planning disciplines they apply to the pre-budget reports (and this will be very easy to check) it will be very difficult for them to give a pessimistic view. Their report will be subject to the most rigorous analysis and any slanting will be easy to expose. So-
If they do it accurately, including all the potential financial and fiscal benefits which could accrue from independence - WIN
If they "slant" it, no matter how slightly, the dependistas are exposed as dishonest - WIN
P.S. Isn't it so easy nowadays to gauge the temper of a political article? Just skim it for the use of the word "separation" and you'll know it's shite.
By all means let the OBR do their economic forecast. As long as it is in accordance with the accounting/planning disciplines they apply to the pre-budget reports (and this will be very easy to check) it will be very difficult for them to give a pessimistic view. Their report will be subject to the most rigorous analysis and any slanting will be easy to expose. So-
If they do it accurately, including all the potential financial and fiscal benefits which could accrue from independence - WIN
If they "slant" it, no matter how slightly, the dependistas are exposed as dishonest - WIN
P.S. Isn't it so easy nowadays to gauge the temper of a political article? Just skim it for the use of the word "separation" and you'll know it's shite.
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2012-02-03 16:37
with respect, Old Smokey, Auld Bob, Macart etc. could you compile some examples as to why the Scottish unionist MPs want Scotland to remain in the union. I thought they wanted the best for Scotland
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2012-02-03 01:54
O/T Pictures of UK's Gold reserves, worth £ 156 Billion
By my reckoning, £ 12.5 Billion belongs to Scotland at least
dailymail.co.uk/.../...
By my reckoning, £ 12.5 Billion belongs to Scotland at least
dailymail.co.uk/.../...
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2012-02-03 08:14
But in reality it all belongs to the UK's debtors. In other words we are in hock to others.
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2012-02-03 02:00
Apologies if someone has already done it but plugging those percentages into electoral calculus would predict the following result at Westminister:
SNP 54
LAB 4
LIB 1
CON 0
Sounds good tae me...
(Just for laughs... the four labour MPs it says would still be in post assuming they stand for re-election are:
Willie Bain
Tom Clarke
Ian 'Doing' Davidson
and some guy called Gordon Brown...)
SNP 54
LAB 4
LIB 1
CON 0
Sounds good tae me...
(Just for laughs... the four labour MPs it says would still be in post assuming they stand for re-election are:
Willie Bain
Tom Clarke
Ian 'Doing' Davidson
and some guy called Gordon Brown...)
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2012-02-03 02:38
Is it just me, or does Johann Lamont look like Iain Gray in drag? Has anyone ever seen them together in the same room at the same time?
At the very least, she must still be using the same script writer, her questions are tedious and self-defeating, and she doesn't know when to stop digging a hole for herself.
What price both Mr Ed and Ms Lamont still being "leaders" come the referendum?
At the very least, she must still be using the same script writer, her questions are tedious and self-defeating, and she doesn't know when to stop digging a hole for herself.
What price both Mr Ed and Ms Lamont still being "leaders" come the referendum?
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2012-02-03 02:41
Professor Arthur Midwinter has used his submission to the UK government’s consultation on the independence referendum to claim Scottish Government reports cannot be trusted because they have been manipulated by SNP spin doctors. Writing in today’s Scotsman,
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2012-02-03 03:26
I wrote this in response to the poll that showed 50% of Scots were still against Independence. I wanted to share it as it was theraputic for me writing it. Hope you enjoy.
50% eh!
I can’t understand why it’s so hard to see, this 50% are they smarter than me?
I see this nation has been lied to and worse, remember the days when to speak Scots was a curse
The McCrone report, are the people aware? We’ve been robbed for decades, do they really not care?
The mob down in Westminster they hid it away, you know the rest – every dog has his day
Your country’s too wee, too poor and too dumb; you’re better off staying under Westminster’s thumb
You’ll be treated like sheep and fed evermore shite, but you’re first on our list when we want men to fight
All that oil that has flowed, it flowed straight down to London, the tax and the wealth spent by Lord’s gay abandon
As the bankers and lifelong peers built the M25, more people in Scotland found it hard to survive
We’re the sick man of Europe and does anyone care
Labour – once the party of the millions now the party of the millionaire
They’ve sold us out lock stock and barrel the opposition to Tories? Oh well maybe the odd quarrel
We were used as the lab rat with the poll tax from Thatcher
Can you believe she was called stunning by that diddy Geoffrey Archer
Well both of them proved the old saying in my hous
“you don’t need a long neck to look like a goose”
She never thought Scotland would survive all that mess
But we’re starting to flourish, how’s Geoff and the Baroness?
The corrupt Murdoch press, pollies in their Sunday best, watch them grin at all of their might
Puppet masters supreme, with their left build a dream, whilst stealing your rights with the right
Spare a thought for those pollies the left and the right, their paymaster’s one in the same
Their God –FIAT money, I’m telling you honey, they’re playin the unlosable game
The Biased Broadcasting Corp and all of their cronies, treat the people with scorn like we’re worthless pit ponies
Yes you’re kept in the dark and told God awful lies, whilst they feed in the trough, showing off their school ties.
The MSM they’re just the same, to see them slag Scotland is really a shame
It’s got that bad that I can feel amused, especially when I see the headline “SNP accused”
The Scotsman, the paper, it once was a “read” now the Dandy and Beano leave it for deid
Just imagine for once how it might feel, when there’s TV and papers telling it for real
When the Scots tell the Scottish how it will be, and the news is about Scotland as yer eating yer tea
As you smile to yerself as poverty dies, and we’re not being dumbed down by some Whitehall lies
With your cheaper gas the hous now feels cosy, the economy’s booming and it’s all looking rosy
Then maybe you’ll stop and ask - how can this be?
The Scots voted YES! And Scotland’s now free!
50% eh!
I can’t understand why it’s so hard to see, this 50% are they smarter than me?
I see this nation has been lied to and worse, remember the days when to speak Scots was a curse
The McCrone report, are the people aware? We’ve been robbed for decades, do they really not care?
The mob down in Westminster they hid it away, you know the rest – every dog has his day
Your country’s too wee, too poor and too dumb; you’re better off staying under Westminster’s thumb
You’ll be treated like sheep and fed evermore shite, but you’re first on our list when we want men to fight
All that oil that has flowed, it flowed straight down to London, the tax and the wealth spent by Lord’s gay abandon
As the bankers and lifelong peers built the M25, more people in Scotland found it hard to survive
We’re the sick man of Europe and does anyone care
Labour – once the party of the millions now the party of the millionaire
They’ve sold us out lock stock and barrel the opposition to Tories? Oh well maybe the odd quarrel
We were used as the lab rat with the poll tax from Thatcher
Can you believe she was called stunning by that diddy Geoffrey Archer
Well both of them proved the old saying in my hous
“you don’t need a long neck to look like a goose”
She never thought Scotland would survive all that mess
But we’re starting to flourish, how’s Geoff and the Baroness?
The corrupt Murdoch press, pollies in their Sunday best, watch them grin at all of their might
Puppet masters supreme, with their left build a dream, whilst stealing your rights with the right
Spare a thought for those pollies the left and the right, their paymaster’s one in the same
Their God –FIAT money, I’m telling you honey, they’re playin the unlosable game
The Biased Broadcasting Corp and all of their cronies, treat the people with scorn like we’re worthless pit ponies
Yes you’re kept in the dark and told God awful lies, whilst they feed in the trough, showing off their school ties.
The MSM they’re just the same, to see them slag Scotland is really a shame
It’s got that bad that I can feel amused, especially when I see the headline “SNP accused”
The Scotsman, the paper, it once was a “read” now the Dandy and Beano leave it for deid
Just imagine for once how it might feel, when there’s TV and papers telling it for real
When the Scots tell the Scottish how it will be, and the news is about Scotland as yer eating yer tea
As you smile to yerself as poverty dies, and we’re not being dumbed down by some Whitehall lies
With your cheaper gas the hous now feels cosy, the economy’s booming and it’s all looking rosy
Then maybe you’ll stop and ask - how can this be?
The Scots voted YES! And Scotland’s now free!
#
2012-02-03 03:41
The row over the Student Loan head's salary is getting deeper. From the Guardian:
Quote:
Sorry, must have missed something there Danny: what "action" did you take? Asking your colleagues if the stable door is still wide open after the horse has bolted, doesn't really count as "action" in my book.
Quote:
Alexander said: "I have asked Treasury officials to urgently review the appropriateness of allowing public sector appointees to be paid through an agency by a personal service company.
"I have also written to my cabinet colleagues asking them to carry out an urgent internal audit to ensure that all senior consultancy appointments provide value for money.
"As I have said before, I believe everybody should pay the right tax at the right time … that is why I've taken this action."
Sorry, must have missed something there Danny: what "action" did you take? Asking your colleagues if the stable door is still wide open after the horse has bolted, doesn't really count as "action" in my book.
#
2012-02-03 08:12
The discussion about this on Newsnight last night just proves that you can find people to justify such things no matter how gross they are.
#
2012-02-03 05:18
Off topic:
www.blipfoto.com/theworldover
Superb video that is launching today, will leave your hairs standing up!
www.blipfoto.com/theworldover
Superb video that is launching today, will leave your hairs standing up!
#
2012-02-03 09:10
Sorry Dougie, disagree.
Thought so many of those images look fake - every single Saltire in the middle of the picture so that it doesn't move when editing ? I don't think so..
Images are too quick and this idea has been done many times before.
Thought so many of those images look fake - every single Saltire in the middle of the picture so that it doesn't move when editing ? I don't think so..
Images are too quick and this idea has been done many times before.
#
2012-02-03 09:47
O/T BBC North Britain Strike Again.
Boak Bags at the ready, people.
Has anyone ever seen a pi$h-poorer piece of "journalism" than this ?
bbc.co.uk/.../...
Is it just me (he asks rhetorically) or has BBC North Britain been putting absolutely anything with the words "Great Britain" or "UK" up on the website recently. In much the same way as we have an outbreak of "Great British" programmes on The State Broadcaster alongside the endless documentaries about Her Grace Elisabeth, Queen of Scots and "Our" Olympics.
Does anyone at PQ actually read the [many expressive and descriptive very bad sweary words removed in respect of Mods] that they publish ?
Come The Glorious Day.....
Boak Bags at the ready, people.
Has anyone ever seen a pi$h-poorer piece of "journalism" than this ?
bbc.co.uk/.../...
Is it just me (he asks rhetorically) or has BBC North Britain been putting absolutely anything with the words "Great Britain" or "UK" up on the website recently. In much the same way as we have an outbreak of "Great British" programmes on The State Broadcaster alongside the endless documentaries about Her Grace Elisabeth, Queen of Scots and "Our" Olympics.
Does anyone at PQ actually read the [many expressive and descriptive very bad sweary words removed in respect of Mods] that they publish ?
Come The Glorious Day.....
#
2012-02-03 10:23
It wasn't a car crash by any means but Jamie Hepburn wasn't robust enough in dealing with Ken McIntosh on Scotland Tonight.
Because Labour are going through a traumatic time at the moment I hope we are not starting to underestimate them.
MCIntosh holds archaic views and perhaps isn't the sharpest tool in the box but he is articulate and can put a point over very well.
Hepburn looked inexperienced up against him. To be brutally honest, if I was a "sitting on the fence don't know" I would probably have swayed towards the NO vote.
Because Labour are going through a traumatic time at the moment I hope we are not starting to underestimate them.
MCIntosh holds archaic views and perhaps isn't the sharpest tool in the box but he is articulate and can put a point over very well.
Hepburn looked inexperienced up against him. To be brutally honest, if I was a "sitting on the fence don't know" I would probably have swayed towards the NO vote.
#
2012-02-03 13:25
Plenty of time, folks, to bring out the big guns and the big truths.
Let them wear themselves out now with over two years to go with lies and distortios which one by one will be exposed as just that.
Once you can establish a couple of big lies with the public all their statements are treated with suspicion and all their arguments are dead.
Let them wear themselves out now with over two years to go with lies and distortios which one by one will be exposed as just that.
Once you can establish a couple of big lies with the public all their statements are treated with suspicion and all their arguments are dead.
#
2012-02-03 14:05
Slightly OT, but I've been looking at the 1979 referendum results:
en.wikipedia.org/.../...
It's encouraging to see that Strathclyde voted yes. Perhaps this is good evidence that there is a large proportion of Labour voters who would vote for independence.
When you think about it, this isn't too hard to understand. Labour voters hate Tories and Tory rule. Given the chance to eliminate Tories from Scotland they would vote for it. It just needs them all to temporarily vote for the SNP to allow that to happen.
This moment seems to be happening right now. I reckon a lot of Labour supporters have grudgingly voted Labour in the past because they were the only viable challenge for the Tories. However, now that the SNP have managed to reach a tipping point, and form two governments, there is much less reason to keep grudgingly giving Labour your vote, and they are happily abandoning them for the time being.
Perhaps it's a bit worrying that Orkney and Shetland voted no in this referendum, but they are still part of Scotland despite what London says.
I was very young in 1979. Could someone who remembers it offer comments on the above?
en.wikipedia.org/.../...
It's encouraging to see that Strathclyde voted yes. Perhaps this is good evidence that there is a large proportion of Labour voters who would vote for independence.
When you think about it, this isn't too hard to understand. Labour voters hate Tories and Tory rule. Given the chance to eliminate Tories from Scotland they would vote for it. It just needs them all to temporarily vote for the SNP to allow that to happen.
This moment seems to be happening right now. I reckon a lot of Labour supporters have grudgingly voted Labour in the past because they were the only viable challenge for the Tories. However, now that the SNP have managed to reach a tipping point, and form two governments, there is much less reason to keep grudgingly giving Labour your vote, and they are happily abandoning them for the time being.
Perhaps it's a bit worrying that Orkney and Shetland voted no in this referendum, but they are still part of Scotland despite what London says.
I was very young in 1979. Could someone who remembers it offer comments on the above?
#
2012-02-03 16:07
Perhaps Orkney and Shetland like to think they are different, but what would they do if it actually came to the crunch; viz being wedded to Scotland or wedded to the UK minus Scotland?
#
2012-02-03 19:42
Do you actually think anybody up here is going to put up with that?
What gave you the idea we like to think we're different?
Do you have a problem with this far flung piece of Scotland?
What gave you the idea we like to think we're different?
Do you have a problem with this far flung piece of Scotland?
#
2012-02-03 20:27
I understand the SNP supported the 'Shetland Movement' and its quest for greater autonomy; when they were active in putting forward candidates in the past, the SNP agreed not to stand against them.
#
2012-02-03 20:48
Hi Briggs, if you're in Shetland then I think everyone would be delighted to hear your response to the whole 'the Northern Isles might want to stay in the UK' thing. I doubt if anyone here has a problem with far flung parts - I'm in a pretty far flung part myself!
#
2012-02-03 16:15
I recall it - there was an immense amount of negativity in the media and the main parties were pretty much against. The 40% rule was widely considered a scupper clause to prevent a Yes vote and discourage voters. What was remarkable was that the result was a Yes vote even if it fell at the 40% rule.
I might be wrong but I think everywhere voted Yes in the 97 referendum for a Scottish Parliament and only a couple of areas voted No to tax raising powers - one being Dumfries as I recall and no one is suggesting that it should be ruled by London.
I might be wrong but I think everywhere voted Yes in the 97 referendum for a Scottish Parliament and only a couple of areas voted No to tax raising powers - one being Dumfries as I recall and no one is suggesting that it should be ruled by London.
#
2012-02-03 20:32
RE 1979. To get >40% of the electorate to say YES, you need at least an 81% turnout. This has only happenend twice in all the elections (local, general, european..) held in the last ~80 years. On both occasions (just 81%) this was around the time of WWW2.
It was almost impossible for a YES vote to succeed in 1979.
It was almost impossible for a YES vote to succeed in 1979.
#
2012-02-03 21:01
Yes, the 40% rule was a fiddle by Westmonster. It was undemocratic and wholly (and I choose my words carefully here) Anti -Scottish.
If the result of the 1979 referendum hadn't been fiddled by Westminster, and devolution allowed, there would have been NO Thatcher in Scotland.
If that isn't a warning from history as to why to vote YES, I don't know what is.
If the result of the 1979 referendum hadn't been fiddled by Westminster, and devolution allowed, there would have been NO Thatcher in Scotland.
If that isn't a warning from history as to why to vote YES, I don't know what is.
#
2012-02-03 20:35
TE, going back to one of your other points about Strathclyde voting favourably, I recollect an article here some months back and a subsequent discussion that another main area of unionist support is in Edinburgh. (going by last years elections)
I automatically assumed it would be Glasgow with it's Labour history, however with the Mori poll and the breakdown I have seen the unionist vote is being held up by women and the older generation. It gives me visions of the Morningside tea and scones set as our major obstacle in the fight for self governance.
Persuading them would be a daunting task in anyone's book !
I automatically assumed it would be Glasgow with it's Labour history, however with the Mori poll and the breakdown I have seen the unionist vote is being held up by women and the older generation. It gives me visions of the Morningside tea and scones set as our major obstacle in the fight for self governance.
Persuading them would be a daunting task in anyone's book !
#
2012-02-03 20:20
If you take the comments on the recent Nick Robinson Blogs and so on on the BBC about the Ref at face value. It appears many female Scottish posters claim they wouldnt vote for the SNP and Indi. purely because they dont like AS. My mother in law has mentioned similar in the past, she is the only one of my imediate close family who holds that view though, mother and sister in laws dont (and one of those is from England).
'course we all know 99% of the pro union posts on BBC are all from some Labour party activist possibly called Dave based in London pretending to be in Glasgow...
Edit: The above was a direct response and meant to have a quote in it. Sorry its out of context now =)
'course we all know 99% of the pro union posts on BBC are all from some Labour party activist possibly called Dave based in London pretending to be in Glasgow...
Edit: The above was a direct response and meant to have a quote in it. Sorry its out of context now =)
#
2012-02-03 20:33
Quoting Corm:
I knew it was a mistake to give women the vote!
(gets coat)
It appears many female Scottish posters claim they wouldnt vote for the SNP and Indi. purely because they dont like AS.
I knew it was a mistake to give women the vote!
(gets coat)
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