Friday, 03 February 2012 19:49
95 Comments
By G.A.Ponsonby 
An SNP MSP has called on a former Labour party advisor to apologise after he described official Scottish government reports as “misinformation” and an “an insult to Scottish citizens”.
The attack on politically neutral civil servants by Professor Arthur Midwinter, who was also a Labour councillor for several years, has caused outrage with SNP Linda Fabiani saying he should be “ashamed of himself”.
Calling Mr Midwinter’s article in the Scotsman newspaper “a partisan attack” the East Kilbride MSP said the academic should issue an immediate apology. Ms Fabiani also called on the Labour party to disassociate themselves from the attack on professional civil servants.
“Arthur Midwinter is a former Labour Party adviser, and his article is a partisan attack on the Scottish Government.” she said, and added:
“He should be thoroughly ashamed of himself for making unsubstantiated allegations against professional civil servants that have no basis in fact, and have been shown to be false.
“He should apologise, and the Labour Party should disassociate themselves from his ill-judged remarks. It is precisely this sort of negative nonsense that people are sick of reading about, and helps explain why Labour are at a record low of 23 per cent in Scotland in the polls.”
According to the Scotsman newspaper, Professor Midwinter claimed that official government reports were of a poorer standard than when Labour were in power.
He also alleged that official documents were part of a “misinformation campaign on both the impact of independence or devolution-max" that were "an insult to Scottish citizens”.
The academic, a former advisor to disgraced former Scottish Labour leader Wendy Alexander, said that reports often: “present unsubstantiated assertions as matters of fact, or make selective use of research which fits with their predisposition, whilst ignoring critical work”.
Mr Midwinter also attacked First Minister Alex Salmond accusing him of making “implausible” claims and accused other Scottish Government Ministers of spreading “misinformation” about the Calman report.
He also accused Ministers of overstating Scotland’s fiscal position to make it appear Scotland was in fiscal surplus, when said Midwinter, Scotland was in the red.
However a spokesman for Finance Secretary John Swinney said the GERS report, showing Scotland in surplus, was prepared without interference from politicians and carried an official National Statistics kitemark.
Dismissing the academic he said: “These claims, from a former Labour adviser, couldn’t be more wrong.
“Scotland’s budget position is a key argument in favour of independence, and one reason why we are confident of success in the referendum. Year after year, Scotland is in a stronger financial position that the UK as a whole – Scotland contributes more to the UK Exchequer than we receive in public spending.”
He added: “On the latest figures, Scotland generated 9.4 per cent of UK tax with 8.4 per cent of the population – the equivalent of £1,000 extra for every man, woman and child in Scotland.
“There is now agreement that Scotland is in a far stronger position than the UK in terms of our fiscal position.
“On that sound basis, Scotland would responsibly manage the nation’s finances and assets under independence – and would be the sixth richest country in the OECD in terms of GDP per head.”
Midwinter attacks
These attacks by Professor Midwinter are merely the latest in a long line of controversial assertions made by the academic and go back at least to 2005 when he claimed the SNP’s company-tax plans would create a £10 billion deficit.
In February 2007, prior to the Holyrood election, the academic claimed that if independent, Scotland would suffer a massive £4.5 billion black hole.
In that same year, shortly after being appointed advisor to Wendy Alexander’s team, he claimed that the freeze on local council tax would lead to local authorities losing £420 million in funding over three years. Midwinter also claimed that the cut in business rates would see the total loss rise to £1.3 billion.
Midwinter described the SNP as "lacking the fiscal competence necessary for governing" and poured scorn on their plans for 1.5% in efficiency savings saying "No British government has delivered 1% per annum efficiency savings over a sustained period - not even the Thatcher government of the 1980s." – In fact in 2008-9 the new SNP government’s Efficient Government programme delivered savings of £839 million (3.1%).
In August 2007, professor Midwinter claimed that the new SNP Government’s financial plans were unravelling and the then new administration was facing a £2 billion black hole.
Comments
#
2012-02-03 20:40
"The academic...said that reports often: present unsubstantiated assertions as matters of fact, or make selective use of research which fits with their predisposition"
Projection.
en.wikipedia.org/.../...
Projection.
en.wikipedia.org/.../...
#
2012-02-03 20:40
Wendy's man said Scotland would be better off
They should have a word with him.
Just were did the £300Billion Oil Fund go
They should have a word with him.
Just were did the £300Billion Oil Fund go
#
2012-02-03 20:40
I was wondering when the Prof was going to raise his head.
He must have been saving himself.
He must have been saving himself.
#
2012-02-03 20:40
Half way through this article I found myself starting to hum ' in the bleak midwinter'
Midwinter by name - midwinter by nature possibly ?
Midwinter by name - midwinter by nature possibly ?
#
2012-02-03 21:57
He was budget adviser to the Scottish Parliament from 2002 to 2007, and to the Labour opposition from 2007 until March 2011.
And before that he was a Labour Councillor.
This means, of course, that he was the governments financial advisor when they decided to return over a Billion Pounds of Block Grant to Westminster rather than spend it on infrastructure like schools and hospitals.
Those were paid for by PPF / PPP which would no doubt also have had Mr Midwinters approval.
This man should keep his head down if he is sensible...
'I am rather bemused by the coverage in The Scotsman and other newspapers describing Professor Arthur Midwinter as an "economist" and leading "expert", who has debunked the economic case for an independent Scotland. My understanding is that Prof Midwinter has a background in political science, indeed is a former professor of politics and a specialist in local government finance.
'It is, therefore, perhaps a step too far to saddle him with the label "economist", let alone describe him as an "expert" in the field. And, in fairness, I cannot recall him ever describing himself as an economist.
'If it is wished to have a mature debate on the economics of independence, I would sooner put weight on the opinion of Professor David Simpson, a qualified and highly experienced economist of the highest calibre, who cogently argued the economic case for independence in another newspaper this week. For what it is worth, I am pleased to second Professor Simpson's opinion that the economic arguments favour independence for Scotland.
'If we are taking a tally of professional economists' opinion, so far that makes two for and none against'.
(PROF) NEIL KAY, Department of Economics, University of Strathclyde, Glasgow
And before that he was a Labour Councillor.
This means, of course, that he was the governments financial advisor when they decided to return over a Billion Pounds of Block Grant to Westminster rather than spend it on infrastructure like schools and hospitals.
Those were paid for by PPF / PPP which would no doubt also have had Mr Midwinters approval.
This man should keep his head down if he is sensible...
'I am rather bemused by the coverage in The Scotsman and other newspapers describing Professor Arthur Midwinter as an "economist" and leading "expert", who has debunked the economic case for an independent Scotland. My understanding is that Prof Midwinter has a background in political science, indeed is a former professor of politics and a specialist in local government finance.
'It is, therefore, perhaps a step too far to saddle him with the label "economist", let alone describe him as an "expert" in the field. And, in fairness, I cannot recall him ever describing himself as an economist.
'If it is wished to have a mature debate on the economics of independence, I would sooner put weight on the opinion of Professor David Simpson, a qualified and highly experienced economist of the highest calibre, who cogently argued the economic case for independence in another newspaper this week. For what it is worth, I am pleased to second Professor Simpson's opinion that the economic arguments favour independence for Scotland.
'If we are taking a tally of professional economists' opinion, so far that makes two for and none against'.
(PROF) NEIL KAY, Department of Economics, University of Strathclyde, Glasgow
#
2012-02-03 22:09
Where was this very sensible (and, to Midwinter, thawing) piece published? Could you provide a link or a reference?
#
2012-02-03 23:45
Thank you for the link.
I was intrigued by this contribution in the referenced site:
"I can sympathise with J Derrick McClure's sentiments (Letters, 12 February), but not with his faith in the SNP. It is not fit for purpose, as long as it masquerades as a party of power. If it campaigned as a one-issue party, it might have much more success.
If people decide the most realistic way to self-governance is through expansion of Holyrood powers, the SNP may become obsolete overnight.
DONALD MACLEAN, Braemar Grove, Dunblane, Perthshire"
Masquearade as a party of power?? But the SNP IS the party in power! :-D And I think their success in the last Holyrood elections is down to the fact that they are NOT a one-issue party but ran a very competent minority government. I think many people who don't actually support independence voted for the SNP because they were seen as competent. And as to devo-max-whatever and the SNP becoming obsolete overnight... Haven't we all heard it before. Who was it that said devolution would kill the SNP stone deid? :-D
I was intrigued by this contribution in the referenced site:
"I can sympathise with J Derrick McClure's sentiments (Letters, 12 February), but not with his faith in the SNP. It is not fit for purpose, as long as it masquerades as a party of power. If it campaigned as a one-issue party, it might have much more success.
If people decide the most realistic way to self-governance is through expansion of Holyrood powers, the SNP may become obsolete overnight.
DONALD MACLEAN, Braemar Grove, Dunblane, Perthshire"
Masquearade as a party of power?? But the SNP IS the party in power! :-D And I think their success in the last Holyrood elections is down to the fact that they are NOT a one-issue party but ran a very competent minority government. I think many people who don't actually support independence voted for the SNP because they were seen as competent. And as to devo-max-whatever and the SNP becoming obsolete overnight... Haven't we all heard it before. Who was it that said devolution would kill the SNP stone deid? :-D
#
2012-02-03 22:54
Quoting Sleekit:
Do you have a link to where I can find more info on this, Sleekit?
P.S. - www.reddit.com/r/Scotland could do with some of your input. ;)
This means, of course, that he was the governments financial advisor when they decided to return over a Billion Pounds of Block Grant to Westminster rather than spend it on infrastructure like schools and hospitals.
Do you have a link to where I can find more info on this, Sleekit?
P.S. - www.reddit.com/r/Scotland could do with some of your input. ;)
#
2012-02-03 20:42
In the bleak Midwinter ....
O/T
Seven English NHS hospital trusts with debts caused, in part, by private finance initiative repayments are to have access to a £1.5bn government bailout fund, it has been announced.
Q1 - Do we get Barnett consequentials?
Q2 - Now that Fred has lost his "K", shouldn't all those politicians who promoted PFI and PPP lose their ermine?
Slainte Mhor
O/T
Seven English NHS hospital trusts with debts caused, in part, by private finance initiative repayments are to have access to a £1.5bn government bailout fund, it has been announced.
Q1 - Do we get Barnett consequentials?
Q2 - Now that Fred has lost his "K", shouldn't all those politicians who promoted PFI and PPP lose their ermine?
Slainte Mhor
#
2012-02-04 22:05
"..shouldn't all those politicians who promoted PFI and PPP lose their ermine?"
Do you really want to decimate Labour in Scotland? (Oops sorry - just noticed you only mentioned The House of Lords)
Of course we do - roll on the May elections!
Do you really want to decimate Labour in Scotland? (Oops sorry - just noticed you only mentioned The House of Lords)
Of course we do - roll on the May elections!
#
2012-02-03 20:43
Don't let Labour/Unionists anywhere near the plans for the new Forth Road Bridge, or it will end up years late and double the price like the Holyrood and the Trams.
#
2012-02-03 20:52
Another idiot along with the economic think tank announced on BBC Scotland tonight as coming out against any country relying on "volatile" oil prices.
I think we also heard this from the Westminster treasury person (Gauke) who said something similar to the Holyrood Scotland bill committee,so nothing new from the unionist camp.
If these idiots were to visit Norway,Saudi Arabia,Quatar etc and tell their governments that they can't rely on "volatile" oil prices to ensure prosperity,they would be placed in a mental institution.
The only black hole which will appear with Scottish independence will be in Westminster's income and I suspect that the hole will be even larger than the GERS figures pretend to show.
I think we also heard this from the Westminster treasury person (Gauke) who said something similar to the Holyrood Scotland bill committee,so nothing new from the unionist camp.
If these idiots were to visit Norway,Saudi Arabia,Quatar etc and tell their governments that they can't rely on "volatile" oil prices to ensure prosperity,they would be placed in a mental institution.
The only black hole which will appear with Scottish independence will be in Westminster's income and I suspect that the hole will be even larger than the GERS figures pretend to show.
#
2012-02-03 22:44
That'll be the UK Oil and Gas Lobby Group's estimate that the UK Treasury will garner near to £1 trillion pounds over the next decade 'volatility'?
#
2012-02-03 20:54
Ah Yes, Mr Midwinter. How can I put this politely;
'put up or shut up".
I'm being polite mind.
'put up or shut up".
I'm being polite mind.
#
2012-02-03 21:08
O/T If you haven't done so already, I would recommend we all contribute to the online referendum consultation. Going by the pro-unionist comments on the website blog I suspect they will also try and flood the consultation with negative comments in the hope that it will show the majority of contibutors are against the proposals. consult.scotland.gov.uk/.../
#
2012-02-03 22:00
I wish I could but as I'm a citizen of another country, I have no (moral) right. But I'm supporting you all the way to independence!
What's happening to Scotland now reminds me of a bleak period in Finnish history, when the tzars tried to "Russify" us after 70-80 years of autonomy (our own laws, our own currency, our own tax system, our own school system...) What the tzars succeeded in doing was to stoke up our national feeling and growing support for our independence.
What's happening to Scotland now reminds me of a bleak period in Finnish history, when the tzars tried to "Russify" us after 70-80 years of autonomy (our own laws, our own currency, our own tax system, our own school system...) What the tzars succeeded in doing was to stoke up our national feeling and growing support for our independence.
#
2012-02-04 01:13
[quote name="lumilumi"]I wish I could but as I'm a citizen of another country, I have no (moral) right. But I'm supporting you all the way to independence!/quote]
Actually you can submit your responses. There is a tick box for residents of other countries. Go on, be gallus!
Actually you can submit your responses. There is a tick box for residents of other countries. Go on, be gallus!
#
2012-02-04 03:09
Oh, great! If I can put in my two cents worth.
I hope I don't go off on a rant like I always do here... Finland's independence is just so precious to me that I cannot see why someone else wouldn't want to be independent.
And it's thanks my great-grandparents and grandparents that we have our independence. All my grandparents actually saw Finland becoming independent, as teenagers, and my gran told me about it, how happy they were, dancing and jumping up and down in the village hall. Then both my grandfathers took part in the Civil War as teenagers, then again in the Winter War and the Continuation War when they were in their late thirties/early forties. They never told anybody much about the wars, just that independence is the most precious thing one can ever have. Well, they put their life on line to preserve it for their children and eventual grandchildren and great-grandchildren... The greatest gift you can ever have.
Scotland won't have to go to war. Who would attack Scotland in this modern world? Scotland is a rich western democracy with a stable government, a stable society. Your case for independence is so much better than Finland's ever was, at least in economic terms, and proud history as an idenpendent country etc.
I hope I don't go off on a rant like I always do here... Finland's independence is just so precious to me that I cannot see why someone else wouldn't want to be independent.
And it's thanks my great-grandparents and grandparents that we have our independence. All my grandparents actually saw Finland becoming independent, as teenagers, and my gran told me about it, how happy they were, dancing and jumping up and down in the village hall. Then both my grandfathers took part in the Civil War as teenagers, then again in the Winter War and the Continuation War when they were in their late thirties/early forties. They never told anybody much about the wars, just that independence is the most precious thing one can ever have. Well, they put their life on line to preserve it for their children and eventual grandchildren and great-grandchildren... The greatest gift you can ever have.
Scotland won't have to go to war. Who would attack Scotland in this modern world? Scotland is a rich western democracy with a stable government, a stable society. Your case for independence is so much better than Finland's ever was, at least in economic terms, and proud history as an idenpendent country etc.
#
2012-02-04 11:11
Why don't you submit this to the Herald and see if they'd put it in print? We could do with a bit of "foreign" perspective on independence.
Remember, when independence is declared, it will just take a handful of countries to recognise our Nation Statehood and it's done deal.
England would have to try and invade us to overturn events as no other action would be possible whether it be legal or jumping up and down in a tantrum.
Remember, when independence is declared, it will just take a handful of countries to recognise our Nation Statehood and it's done deal.
England would have to try and invade us to overturn events as no other action would be possible whether it be legal or jumping up and down in a tantrum.
#
2012-02-05 00:17
Actually, I had thought of contributing to the consultation. Having been away from the British Isles for over ten years now, I am, I suspect, out of date. So I wonder, can anyone tell me if Scotland uses in-person early voting? If not, I would be happy to share a US voter's experiences with that
#
2012-02-03 22:26
Yes I have made a few comments because the indy side seems to be lacking in contribution.
Its not good enough in my opinion.
Please make some comments and drown out some of the unionist rants. Some of the comments are ridiculous. It needs some indy sense .
Thanks
Saor alba
Its not good enough in my opinion.
Please make some comments and drown out some of the unionist rants. Some of the comments are ridiculous. It needs some indy sense .
Thanks
Saor alba
#
2012-02-04 03:42
As long as "indies" don't start slinging mud and half-truths.
You've GOT to be so dignified, factual, friendly... Bigotry will harm the cause, so, self-control. Debunk lies but be polite, factual, friendly. Leave bigotry to the spluttering unionists.
You've GOT to be so dignified, factual, friendly... Bigotry will harm the cause, so, self-control. Debunk lies but be polite, factual, friendly. Leave bigotry to the spluttering unionists.
#
2012-02-03 21:11
Bleak Midwinter was wheeled out on tonights Radio Shortbread Newsdrive programme.
I like the way they wait until it's properly cold before they defrost him.
For me and I'm sure many others his utterances are as reliable, neutral and eagerly awaited as those of George Foulkes.
It was a nice try in the routine, smeary, Labourish, BBC bias kind of way but seriously, back in the freezer with him.
I like the way they wait until it's properly cold before they defrost him.
For me and I'm sure many others his utterances are as reliable, neutral and eagerly awaited as those of George Foulkes.
It was a nice try in the routine, smeary, Labourish, BBC bias kind of way but seriously, back in the freezer with him.
#
2012-02-04 01:18
In the cold light of day, I found myself frozen to the spot and shivering with indignation, at the prof's cool hard neck in making such an icy statement.
Sheeeesh!
Sheeeesh!
#
2012-02-04 03:53
Sheesh, and I thought it was cold in Finland today (-25 C right now). Mr Midwinter is even more efficient than the White Witch.
#
2012-02-03 21:12
I didn't know who this Midwinter guy was when I heard him on the radio this afternoon. He painted himself (and was allowed to) as a complete neutral, a man against any government misinformation. Nobody mentioned he'd been a Labour Councillor for years. His own misinformation has totally discredited his own article.
#
2012-02-03 21:39
I don't want to contemplate a 'No' result in the referendum, but I'm lucky in that I have no serious ties to keep me in Scotland and I am well on my way to becoming financially secure (which is the target for 2014).
If there is a 'No' result, I couldn't face living in my home nation any more, knowing what was likely to come.
I just couldn't Face that.
If there is a 'No' result, I couldn't face living in my home nation any more, knowing what was likely to come.
I just couldn't Face that.
#
2012-02-03 21:45
Sorry, the sheer gravity of just what is at stake just hit me like a steam train.
#
2012-02-03 22:06
A couple of years back, I would not have predicted that the SNP could bring us our referendum in 2014. It took massive confidence by the people of Scotland to vote the way we did.
There will be future opportunities, Future elections. Holyrood is not going away. We have come a long way but there is an enormous task ahead.
But as for Westminster rule, "those days are over", we shall have our referendum and they have been told.
There will be future opportunities, Future elections. Holyrood is not going away. We have come a long way but there is an enormous task ahead.
But as for Westminster rule, "those days are over", we shall have our referendum and they have been told.
#
2012-02-03 22:09
I posted this on another site and got good feedback...
In this day and age it is a travesty that we have a Westminster Government trying to lumber the poor and the young with debts so as to divert wealth to the already affluent.
Well done to the SNP on their efforts thus far!
I know that I am more confident that my own daughter will be able to afford University Education if we achieve independence rather than trust that this shall remain free within the Union.
We cannot afford to take the chance of letting the Labour party back into Holyrood as they only act under the orders of their Westminster controllers and we can expect an attack on free prescriptions, health care for the elderly, bus passes and higher education if they are ever allowed to hold power again.
My main worry is that in the Referendum the NO vote wins out. If this should happen then we can kiss goodbye to the Barnett formula that at least addresses some of the issues with Scotland sending more taxes than we receive back. We can also look forward to a reduced Scottish contingent in Westminster and severe curbs on their authority.
They are already putting in the groundwork for this with their commissions on the Barnett Formula and the "West Lothian Question".
The truth that the public needs to understand is that this is no longer a fight between Independence or the Status Quo!
It is a fight between Independence and the asset stripping of Scotland.
I only hope that it does not come to pass that the vote fails as I do not want to see:-
*The privatisation of the NHS
*Sky High Fees for students
*An end to free care for the elderly
*The return of MASSIVE Council Tax rises
*An end to the successful Scottish Enterprise work to attract Foreign Direct Investment
*The reduction in Scotland's budget to a per capita percentage (while UK infrastructure projects in the SE continue to receive Westminster funding)
*The retention of Nuclear WMD's on the Clyde merely a few miles from Scotland's largest population centre
*Our young being sent off to wars for resources that will only benefit the already wealthy (IRAN Anyone???)
We need to break free of these Neo-liberal maniacs in London!
We need to fight to provide a future for our children that they can prosper in!
We need to vote yes!
In this day and age it is a travesty that we have a Westminster Government trying to lumber the poor and the young with debts so as to divert wealth to the already affluent.
Well done to the SNP on their efforts thus far!
I know that I am more confident that my own daughter will be able to afford University Education if we achieve independence rather than trust that this shall remain free within the Union.
We cannot afford to take the chance of letting the Labour party back into Holyrood as they only act under the orders of their Westminster controllers and we can expect an attack on free prescriptions, health care for the elderly, bus passes and higher education if they are ever allowed to hold power again.
My main worry is that in the Referendum the NO vote wins out. If this should happen then we can kiss goodbye to the Barnett formula that at least addresses some of the issues with Scotland sending more taxes than we receive back. We can also look forward to a reduced Scottish contingent in Westminster and severe curbs on their authority.
They are already putting in the groundwork for this with their commissions on the Barnett Formula and the "West Lothian Question".
The truth that the public needs to understand is that this is no longer a fight between Independence or the Status Quo!
It is a fight between Independence and the asset stripping of Scotland.
I only hope that it does not come to pass that the vote fails as I do not want to see:-
*The privatisation of the NHS
*Sky High Fees for students
*An end to free care for the elderly
*The return of MASSIVE Council Tax rises
*An end to the successful Scottish Enterprise work to attract Foreign Direct Investment
*The reduction in Scotland's budget to a per capita percentage (while UK infrastructure projects in the SE continue to receive Westminster funding)
*The retention of Nuclear WMD's on the Clyde merely a few miles from Scotland's largest population centre
*Our young being sent off to wars for resources that will only benefit the already wealthy (IRAN Anyone???)
We need to break free of these Neo-liberal maniacs in London!
We need to fight to provide a future for our children that they can prosper in!
We need to vote yes!
#
2012-02-04 01:35
There are now signs that the decent people in England are begining to fight back too. There are several groups within the English Health sector that have now come out in official opposition to the Red/Yellow/Blue Rainbow Tory Alliance. I'm going on memory here but Midwives, GPs and the BMA at least. The Hospital Managers as well I think.
#
2012-02-04 22:13
Sleekit
" *Our young being sent off to wars for resources that will only benefit the already wealthy (IRAN Anyone???)"
You forgot the Falklands!
" *Our young being sent off to wars for resources that will only benefit the already wealthy (IRAN Anyone???)"
You forgot the Falklands!
#
2012-02-03 23:00
Steady A4E....face front now. The enemy is before you and I am at your shoulder alang with a the braw lads and lassies of this site. We shall prevail.
And when we do, the Lords, Sirs, Professors, politicians and their hangers on who denigrated our country and our abilities will be invited to the truth and reconciliation committee. Then you can sit with me and watch the fun.
And when we do, the Lords, Sirs, Professors, politicians and their hangers on who denigrated our country and our abilities will be invited to the truth and reconciliation committee. Then you can sit with me and watch the fun.
#
2012-02-03 23:18
You guys are truely a breath of fresh air *;0)
We must win this and save our Scotland... there is no option as far as I can see. I still have the belief that we will suceed, but the penalty of failure for our countrymen to pass up on this incredible opportunity is so scary.
Thanks for the moral support... I'm grateful for it.
We must win this and save our Scotland... there is no option as far as I can see. I still have the belief that we will suceed, but the penalty of failure for our countrymen to pass up on this incredible opportunity is so scary.
Thanks for the moral support... I'm grateful for it.
#
2012-02-04 00:16
"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." Lieutenant General Lewis Burwell "Chesty" Puller
They can't get away now!
They can't get away now!
#
2012-02-04 03:58
Quoting Alba4Eva:
Save our Scotland. S.O.S. ti-ti-ti-taa-taa-taa-ti-ti-ti.
Oh, I so wish you can! A NO vote will be so terrible for Scotland.
You guys are truely a breath of fresh air *;0)
We must win this and save our Scotland... there is no option as far as I can see. I still have the belief that we will suceed, but the penalty of failure for our countrymen to pass up on this incredible opportunity is so scary.
Thanks for the moral support... I'm grateful for it.
Save our Scotland. S.O.S. ti-ti-ti-taa-taa-taa-ti-ti-ti.
Oh, I so wish you can! A NO vote will be so terrible for Scotland.
#
2012-02-03 21:42
That's the trouble with the media they don't tell the punters the baggage the 'expert' has. He is only blazing a trail for the meeting between 'The First Eck's team and Moore's team in a few days time.
We already have 'Call me Dave' & 'Moore' and some prominent ( ex respected) labour MSP's on record as saying that Scotland can do OK if it were independent.
Like the 'Bleak Midwinter' this will pass into history and a warm spring and summer will eventually come along when we celebrate our independence.
No darkened room for me regarding this latest squawk. @;+)
We already have 'Call me Dave' & 'Moore' and some prominent ( ex respected) labour MSP's on record as saying that Scotland can do OK if it were independent.
Like the 'Bleak Midwinter' this will pass into history and a warm spring and summer will eventually come along when we celebrate our independence.
No darkened room for me regarding this latest squawk. @;+)
#
2012-02-03 21:51
The scene is the Brigadoon Care Home for the Constitutionall y Bewildered.
"...........no, but they're doing it deliberately". The high-pitched whine echoed throughout the musty, empty corridors of The Home. Then silence. The only noise was the distant click and scuff of high heels on parquet floor, as if a small child had broken into her mother's wardrobe and was now experimenting with the collection of shoes discovered within. Young Nicola stopped and turned her head, trying to pinpoint from which doorway the current occupier of the ill-fitting footwear would emerge. Yea gods, what was this place?
That morning, at the behest of her Uncle Alex, Nicola had presented herself at the reception in the large airy atrium of the Head Quarters of the Constitutionall y Bewildered Institute (Scotland).
Upon arrival she had been caught unawares when suddenly, out of nowhere she had heard a staccato shreak.
"Business!"
"Sorry?" replied Nicola turning to look at the reception counter.
"Whit's yer business?" continued the strange disembodied voice - like that of an adolescent boy's on the verge of breaking but destined always to remain in the hellish limbo between man and boy.
"Sorry," repeated Nicola, "Where are you?"
"Are ye blind? I'm over here".
Nicola stepped towards the low reception desk and peered over. Looking up at her was a small schoolboy, hair cropped around what appeared to be the strangely wizened face of a middle-aged woman.
"I'm here to help out. The community council suggested that I do my bit to help those less fortunate than myself."
"Aye well, there's plenty of them around here", cackled the diminutive receptionist.
"Where should I go?", Nicola asked?
"Through they doors and make yersel' at home. Ye'll find yer way aboot soon enough"
"Thanks very much small boy".
As Nicola had walked away she heard a mumbled response.
"Fandabbydozzy".
"I'm sorry, what?"
"You heard".
That had been more than an hour ago and the childlike receptionist had been the last living soul that she had set eyes on. There were occasional moans and groans from behind locked, heavily fortified doors
".....too wee.......too poor......too stupid.....".
She tried to imagine the miserable godforsaken souls confined within. However, she now had more pressing concerns. The shuffle, click, shuffle rhythm of footsteps was getting louder and obviously getting closer.
A figure appeared at the end of the long corridor, partially blocking the sunlight which streamed through the window. As Nicola squinted, trying to make out who or what this apparition was, it stumbled forward, bandy legs bent out of shape by the ill-fitting and unfamiliar footwear. Just above and to the side of the silhouetted bowed legs was the shape of a large handbag. As the monstrosity limped towards her, she was able to make out the dotted line of a row of pearls strung above an aquamarine twinset.
An elderly female inmate, forever cursed to wander the halls of this benighted institution, thought Nicola.
Just as she was about to turn away, something made her stop and examine the demented hag more closely. As the twinset and pearls approached they had stumbled and the sun had glinted off a shiny bald pate. It wasn’t an elderly crone, but a middle-aged man with a luxuriant thatch of brown hair on either side of a pale, egg-like hairless dome. A crooked smile fleeted across the vision of madness
“The lady’s not for turning” he stated, matter of factly.
“Yes, I’m sure she isn’t” responded Nicola as calmly as she could.
“We are a grandmother you know”
“Uh huh”
“Scottish students have had it too good for too long”
“What do you mean?” queried Nicola.
“I’m going to make sure that they pay their way. Three thousand pounds a year, no six thou….nine thousand. Nine thousand pounds a year, they will thank me for it. The people of Scotland will shower me with their gratitude. I know what they’re thinking. I have an uncanny knack of connecting with the ordinary person, persons, people, plebs, unwashed masses, the proleteri……………” he drifted off.
An orderly appeared, as if from nowhere.”Come on my Lord, let’s get you out of these things”.
As they slowly made their way back up the corridor a familiar call rang out from a distant cell “they are, they’re doing it deliberately”.
"...........no, but they're doing it deliberately". The high-pitched whine echoed throughout the musty, empty corridors of The Home. Then silence. The only noise was the distant click and scuff of high heels on parquet floor, as if a small child had broken into her mother's wardrobe and was now experimenting with the collection of shoes discovered within. Young Nicola stopped and turned her head, trying to pinpoint from which doorway the current occupier of the ill-fitting footwear would emerge. Yea gods, what was this place?
That morning, at the behest of her Uncle Alex, Nicola had presented herself at the reception in the large airy atrium of the Head Quarters of the Constitutionall y Bewildered Institute (Scotland).
Upon arrival she had been caught unawares when suddenly, out of nowhere she had heard a staccato shreak.
"Business!"
"Sorry?" replied Nicola turning to look at the reception counter.
"Whit's yer business?" continued the strange disembodied voice - like that of an adolescent boy's on the verge of breaking but destined always to remain in the hellish limbo between man and boy.
"Sorry," repeated Nicola, "Where are you?"
"Are ye blind? I'm over here".
Nicola stepped towards the low reception desk and peered over. Looking up at her was a small schoolboy, hair cropped around what appeared to be the strangely wizened face of a middle-aged woman.
"I'm here to help out. The community council suggested that I do my bit to help those less fortunate than myself."
"Aye well, there's plenty of them around here", cackled the diminutive receptionist.
"Where should I go?", Nicola asked?
"Through they doors and make yersel' at home. Ye'll find yer way aboot soon enough"
"Thanks very much small boy".
As Nicola had walked away she heard a mumbled response.
"Fandabbydozzy".
"I'm sorry, what?"
"You heard".
That had been more than an hour ago and the childlike receptionist had been the last living soul that she had set eyes on. There were occasional moans and groans from behind locked, heavily fortified doors
".....too wee.......too poor......too stupid.....".
She tried to imagine the miserable godforsaken souls confined within. However, she now had more pressing concerns. The shuffle, click, shuffle rhythm of footsteps was getting louder and obviously getting closer.
A figure appeared at the end of the long corridor, partially blocking the sunlight which streamed through the window. As Nicola squinted, trying to make out who or what this apparition was, it stumbled forward, bandy legs bent out of shape by the ill-fitting and unfamiliar footwear. Just above and to the side of the silhouetted bowed legs was the shape of a large handbag. As the monstrosity limped towards her, she was able to make out the dotted line of a row of pearls strung above an aquamarine twinset.
An elderly female inmate, forever cursed to wander the halls of this benighted institution, thought Nicola.
Just as she was about to turn away, something made her stop and examine the demented hag more closely. As the twinset and pearls approached they had stumbled and the sun had glinted off a shiny bald pate. It wasn’t an elderly crone, but a middle-aged man with a luxuriant thatch of brown hair on either side of a pale, egg-like hairless dome. A crooked smile fleeted across the vision of madness
“The lady’s not for turning” he stated, matter of factly.
“Yes, I’m sure she isn’t” responded Nicola as calmly as she could.
“We are a grandmother you know”
“Uh huh”
“Scottish students have had it too good for too long”
“What do you mean?” queried Nicola.
“I’m going to make sure that they pay their way. Three thousand pounds a year, no six thou….nine thousand. Nine thousand pounds a year, they will thank me for it. The people of Scotland will shower me with their gratitude. I know what they’re thinking. I have an uncanny knack of connecting with the ordinary person, persons, people, plebs, unwashed masses, the proleteri……………” he drifted off.
An orderly appeared, as if from nowhere.”Come on my Lord, let’s get you out of these things”.
As they slowly made their way back up the corridor a familiar call rang out from a distant cell “they are, they’re doing it deliberately”.
#
2012-02-03 23:33
Brechin very amusing - , going down well with the Merlot on a Friday evening - Are you JK R by any chance as the description is perfected
#
2012-02-04 00:10
Chuckled when I read it, But Matron scuffed my lug; made me take my pills and put me to bed.
But I've got this 7" thingy hidden under the bed clothes which I enjoy taking out and I hope she never gets her hands on it.
IT's a 'tablet Ipad' and gets me connected to the net.
Only problem is the predictive text mode which makes spelling dodgy.
But I've got this 7" thingy hidden under the bed clothes which I enjoy taking out and I hope she never gets her hands on it.
IT's a 'tablet Ipad' and gets me connected to the net.
Only problem is the predictive text mode which makes spelling dodgy.
#
2012-02-03 21:55
The problem is not just Midwinter but the newspaper that printed his guff as authoritive.
#
2012-02-03 22:21
Exactly!
I'm sad to say but the state of the MSM in Scotland is DISMAL, with BBC leading the way.
I watch Holyrood committees and debates live, unabridged, unedited whenever I can, and afterwards cannot believe the way they're reported. For instance, good questions or measured points from the SNP are not reported at all, and a truly amazing positive spin put on anything from Labour (and to a lesser extent, the other unioinists). This Midwinter debacle is just another example.
I'm sad to say but the state of the MSM in Scotland is DISMAL, with BBC leading the way.
I watch Holyrood committees and debates live, unabridged, unedited whenever I can, and afterwards cannot believe the way they're reported. For instance, good questions or measured points from the SNP are not reported at all, and a truly amazing positive spin put on anything from Labour (and to a lesser extent, the other unioinists). This Midwinter debacle is just another example.
#
2012-02-03 21:57
Midwinter seriously needs to get over the fact that Labour are moribund. Their leaders in Holyrood and Westminster are simply atrocious.
I expect we will just have to put up with Midwinter, Ashcroft, wee Wendy's hubby, (cant remember his name), Foulkes, Forsyth, "Prof John", BBC "Scotland", our totally biased anti-Independence press, etc.,etc.,etc., until we get Independence, or they go out of business. The lot of them at best have ca 18 months left to rant and talk down Scotland, before they are history.
I expect we will just have to put up with Midwinter, Ashcroft, wee Wendy's hubby, (cant remember his name), Foulkes, Forsyth, "Prof John", BBC "Scotland", our totally biased anti-Independence press, etc.,etc.,etc., until we get Independence, or they go out of business. The lot of them at best have ca 18 months left to rant and talk down Scotland, before they are history.
#
2012-02-03 22:24
By the way, were Labours moribund poll figures reported on BBC Scotland? I couldn't find a mention on the website.
#
2012-02-03 23:20
Quoting lumilumi:
Sometimes for the BBC:
No news is good news.
By the way, were Labours moribund poll figures reported on BBC Scotland? I couldn't find a mention on the website.
Sometimes for the BBC:
No news is good news.
#
2012-02-03 22:03
Much like Prof. Curtice, Mr Midwinter has a supreme talent for getting every prediction 100% wrong. So far both of these academics have proven the best indicator of independence we have. If they say we're doomed, we can take it as read that we're going to have a party.
Oor Bella's not for turning. :0)
Oor Bella's not for turning. :0)
#
2012-02-03 22:21
I'm spending a lot of time in the dark room recently - I don't trust myself to comment without upsetting moderator.
#
2012-02-03 22:25
They are all very slow learners, nobody believes the guff they spew out any more,if they can find a positive case for the Union it is very slow in surfacing.
O/T Not seen any comments from Arbroath for a while, hope all is OK.
O/T Not seen any comments from Arbroath for a while, hope all is OK.
#
2012-02-03 22:49
Reading through the article, the one thought that mostly struck me was pot, kettle, black, with the exception that the kettle is actually quite shiny.
Of course the SNP are a bit selective in what they report but I haven't caught them telling outright lies or untruths, which seems to be par for course for Labour and other unionists, and their affiliates.
The SNP, all their supporters, and all supporters of Scotland's independence must be very careful not to be drawn into the cesspit the unionists wallow in.
Fight scaremongering, untruths, lies and spin with dignity and with facts, reach out to the people and expose the lies, the duplicity, the hypocracy and the self-interest of all Westminster parties. Two and a half years is not a very long time, especially as times are tough and whoever are the current government get blamed for everything, including the weather.
Hmm... Weather... The SNP are very progressive on climate change issues. They could say they're doing their best in fighting climate change. Because in Scotland's geographical position, climate change probably means more instances of extreme weather. But I suppose the MSM have already blamed the SNP for Hurricane Bawbag, as they blamed the SNP for the snow last winter...
Of course the SNP are a bit selective in what they report but I haven't caught them telling outright lies or untruths, which seems to be par for course for Labour and other unionists, and their affiliates.
The SNP, all their supporters, and all supporters of Scotland's independence must be very careful not to be drawn into the cesspit the unionists wallow in.
Fight scaremongering, untruths, lies and spin with dignity and with facts, reach out to the people and expose the lies, the duplicity, the hypocracy and the self-interest of all Westminster parties. Two and a half years is not a very long time, especially as times are tough and whoever are the current government get blamed for everything, including the weather.
Hmm... Weather... The SNP are very progressive on climate change issues. They could say they're doing their best in fighting climate change. Because in Scotland's geographical position, climate change probably means more instances of extreme weather. But I suppose the MSM have already blamed the SNP for Hurricane Bawbag, as they blamed the SNP for the snow last winter...
#
2012-02-04 01:49
Quoting lumilumi:
laughably, the English extreme weather is worse that Scotland's just now. They had colder nights and days over the past few days. Not only that but they have been suffereing both drought and floods for several years now. In Scotland e have had some bad stuff but Scotland is both more accustomed and better prepared to deal with it.
Hmm... Weather... The SNP are very progressive on climate change issues. They could say they're doing their best in fighting climate change. Because in Scotland's geographical position, climate change probably means more instances of extreme weather. But I suppose the MSM have already blamed the SNP for Hurricane Bawbag, as they blamed the SNP for the snow last winter...
laughably, the English extreme weather is worse that Scotland's just now. They had colder nights and days over the past few days. Not only that but they have been suffereing both drought and floods for several years now. In Scotland e have had some bad stuff but Scotland is both more accustomed and better prepared to deal with it.
#
2012-02-04 03:23
They'll blame the bad weather on Scotland and the SNP. Because there's a storm brewing in Scotland.
BTW, as a Finn, I laugh at the Daily Mail and even BBC sensationalist reporting: temperatures plummeted to -10 over the night... Over here it's been a nice, nippy -16 in daytime, not too bad for cross-country skiing in the sunny winter weather.
BTW, as a Finn, I laugh at the Daily Mail and even BBC sensationalist reporting: temperatures plummeted to -10 over the night... Over here it's been a nice, nippy -16 in daytime, not too bad for cross-country skiing in the sunny winter weather.
#
2012-02-04 14:00
lumilumi 2012-02-04 02:23
“They'll blame the bad weather on Scotland and the SNP. Because there's a storm brewing in Scotland.
BTW, as a Finn, I laugh at the Daily Mail and even BBC sensationalist reporting: temperatures plummeted to -10 over the night... Over here it's been a nice, nippy -16 in daytime, not too bad for cross-country skiing in the sunny winter weather.”
Much as I appreciate the insight into life in Finland and the media in UK, it does not inform us of the future governance of Scotland.
There may be a storm brewing in Scotland, but it is entirely the blame of the POLITICAL PARTIES (including the SNP).
Professor Arthur Midwinter, who was also a Labour councillor for several years, has caused outrage with SNP Linda Fabiani saying he should be “ashamed of himself”.
So what, both are entitled to a view and ONLY ONE VOTE. The debate should be on the veracity of the pro and anti arguments, not on PARTY squabbling.
During this consultation phase of the referendum debate in my opinion we should ignore all the PARTY POLITICS and get down to discussing what is on offer post independence.
For example: What is the GDP of Scotland going to be? Not the best guesstimate, where is the income coming from now and how much? The true figures must be available; they should be available to us.
Nobody buys into a business without audited books, why should we?
“They'll blame the bad weather on Scotland and the SNP. Because there's a storm brewing in Scotland.
BTW, as a Finn, I laugh at the Daily Mail and even BBC sensationalist reporting: temperatures plummeted to -10 over the night... Over here it's been a nice, nippy -16 in daytime, not too bad for cross-country skiing in the sunny winter weather.”
Much as I appreciate the insight into life in Finland and the media in UK, it does not inform us of the future governance of Scotland.
There may be a storm brewing in Scotland, but it is entirely the blame of the POLITICAL PARTIES (including the SNP).
Professor Arthur Midwinter, who was also a Labour councillor for several years, has caused outrage with SNP Linda Fabiani saying he should be “ashamed of himself”.
So what, both are entitled to a view and ONLY ONE VOTE. The debate should be on the veracity of the pro and anti arguments, not on PARTY squabbling.
During this consultation phase of the referendum debate in my opinion we should ignore all the PARTY POLITICS and get down to discussing what is on offer post independence.
For example: What is the GDP of Scotland going to be? Not the best guesstimate, where is the income coming from now and how much? The true figures must be available; they should be available to us.
Nobody buys into a business without audited books, why should we?
#
2012-02-03 22:58
All part of the dirty tricks and mendacious propaganda campaign from the unionists, all directed from a secret bunker in Whitehall. To be fair to the RuleBirttaniani stas, lacking any cogent positive arguments, you can't blame them for trying with the lies, can you? Desperation. Frightened of losing that prized permanent seat on the UN security council. Fightened of losing their WMD. Poor lambs.
#
2012-02-03 23:05
I don't know, lumilumi, two and a half years sounds a very long time to put up with all this nonsence, and I'm not even in the thick of it!
#
2012-02-04 01:48
I don't know, Marga... I think two and a half years is a short time to convert the "too wee, too poor, too stupid" Labour automatons and everybody kind of YES but worried or not giving a shit. Scared wee old ladies worried about what the Queen would think, trodden down wives who've always voted Labour because their da and then husband vote Labour, angry disenfranchised young men who've never voted, young professionals planning careers in London because the Scotland of today doesn't offer enough opportunities; crofters worried about their subsidies, fishermen worried about their quotas... Just WORRIED people.
The Establishment and Unionist parties will appeal to these worries by any means necessary. Scaremongering, lies, intimidation, even. The SNP will have to fight every allegation, come up with the facts, and good explanations for their policies, because they will be relentlessly questioned on every point.
Independence supporters must make their case based on fact, be friendly, positive and welcoming, and reassure voters that they don't have to vote SNP even if they want independence. They can go back to voting Labour/Tory/Lib/whatever in an independent Scotland. The parties just won't be tied up to their Westminster overlords and their politicking but concentrate on Scotland and Scots politics for Scots people.
(In an independent Scotland, Murdo Fraser will set up a new right-of-centre party, like he promised in his bid for the Scottish Conservatives leadership. Thank god the Tories didn't elect him as leader, as he seems to me to be the most able and "crowd-pulling" Tory in Scotland ATM.)
The Establishment and Unionist parties will appeal to these worries by any means necessary. Scaremongering, lies, intimidation, even. The SNP will have to fight every allegation, come up with the facts, and good explanations for their policies, because they will be relentlessly questioned on every point.
Independence supporters must make their case based on fact, be friendly, positive and welcoming, and reassure voters that they don't have to vote SNP even if they want independence. They can go back to voting Labour/Tory/Lib/whatever in an independent Scotland. The parties just won't be tied up to their Westminster overlords and their politicking but concentrate on Scotland and Scots politics for Scots people.
(In an independent Scotland, Murdo Fraser will set up a new right-of-centre party, like he promised in his bid for the Scottish Conservatives leadership. Thank god the Tories didn't elect him as leader, as he seems to me to be the most able and "crowd-pulling" Tory in Scotland ATM.)
#
2012-02-04 10:10
Sorry to butt in but this only happened yesterday to me. I was having a chat in the workplace with a fellow supporter and two of my staff overheard the conversation. My team member and I were having a good old growl about the two year wait when the other two chipped in that they would be voting no. I asked the two young ladies why? The instant response was fear for the future that Scotland could not ably support itself or their future families. Instantly my friend and I burst into laughter, which swiftly turned into belly laughs. The two young ladies thought we had lost it entirely.
After we had regained control of ourselves I began to explain about Scotland's financial situation as best I was able. (economically challenged fits where I am concerned) I explained first of all about what we could save on or what we wouldn't be spending on such as Trident or being a net importer of food or power, all money in the bank and the pocket. We then moved swiftly on to resources oil, gas, power generation, fish stocks etc and exports whisky, food, textiles and so on.
My friend and I then explained quite simply that taxes and revenues from all of the above wouldn't then be going into a pot for unfair distribution amongst 60 million souls but to the direct benefit of 5 million. The two young ladies quite literally stood there stupified and piped up almost simultaneously that they didn't realise there was so much, but swiftly cut to the chase. What did it mean to their pockets? I said I believed the last estimate was between £500-£1000 direct cash benefit for each and every soul in Scotland.
The conversation then ambled on to politicians, media, lies and distortions. By the end of the lunch break website addresses had been handed out and promises made to pay a visit. My parting shot was this, don't believe everything you read or see, get off your bum and look for yourself. Don't take my word for it either, look, enquire, think and draw a conclusion. Two solid NOs became undecided at a lunchbreak. By next week who knows? Two for the YES camp?
After we had regained control of ourselves I began to explain about Scotland's financial situation as best I was able. (economically challenged fits where I am concerned) I explained first of all about what we could save on or what we wouldn't be spending on such as Trident or being a net importer of food or power, all money in the bank and the pocket. We then moved swiftly on to resources oil, gas, power generation, fish stocks etc and exports whisky, food, textiles and so on.
My friend and I then explained quite simply that taxes and revenues from all of the above wouldn't then be going into a pot for unfair distribution amongst 60 million souls but to the direct benefit of 5 million. The two young ladies quite literally stood there stupified and piped up almost simultaneously that they didn't realise there was so much, but swiftly cut to the chase. What did it mean to their pockets? I said I believed the last estimate was between £500-£1000 direct cash benefit for each and every soul in Scotland.
The conversation then ambled on to politicians, media, lies and distortions. By the end of the lunch break website addresses had been handed out and promises made to pay a visit. My parting shot was this, don't believe everything you read or see, get off your bum and look for yourself. Don't take my word for it either, look, enquire, think and draw a conclusion. Two solid NOs became undecided at a lunchbreak. By next week who knows? Two for the YES camp?
#
2012-02-07 12:04
Well done Macart
I was getting my hair cut yesterday and I got talking about independence to the hairdresser. She was voting no because of Alex Salmond. I asked her if she was happy with free prescriptions which she said of course. Well if it was not for Alex Salmond we would not have them. She reassed her position and conceded that this was a good thing. This is another No becoming undecided. It is happening everywhere; at my rugby club in my church the hot topic is independence and people want to talk about it. More they want to be enthused about it they want to be part of something.
I was getting my hair cut yesterday and I got talking about independence to the hairdresser. She was voting no because of Alex Salmond. I asked her if she was happy with free prescriptions which she said of course. Well if it was not for Alex Salmond we would not have them. She reassed her position and conceded that this was a good thing. This is another No becoming undecided. It is happening everywhere; at my rugby club in my church the hot topic is independence and people want to talk about it. More they want to be enthused about it they want to be part of something.
#
2012-02-07 12:23
Mornin' dogbite, you've caught me in mid kit kat. See if you agree with this - My feeling is that this is where the battle will be won or lost, in the one to one discussion at home, in the workplace, on-line or in the pub. People just talking to each other and using the technology to hand are going to scupper the wild myths in this debate. With the access to facts that the modern electorate have, as well as the public forums to discuss subject matter, there's no place for the MSM or Westminster to hide anymore.
#
2012-02-03 23:04
These guys who have Prof or Lord or Earl or Sir etc, etc, before their names seem to believe they have a better understanding of how the future of Scotland should be shaped. I have news for you guys, it is up to the sovereign people of Scotland to decide our country's destiny and that will be decided in the 2014 referendum, which is the wish of Scotland's democratically elected party the SNP.
I am happy to admit that the days of Lord F...... and Lord F...... are coming to an end and they know that.
Good riddance to all of them and you too Tankedupness..... byebye.
Cybernat and proud of it.
I am happy to admit that the days of Lord F...... and Lord F...... are coming to an end and they know that.
Good riddance to all of them and you too Tankedupness..... byebye.
Cybernat and proud of it.
#
2012-02-04 00:01
My following comment may fall into the,
" Ah telt yeez"
or
"Ah kent his faither" category.
But
Things are looking BLEAK for Labour and Arthur.
" Ah telt yeez"
or
"Ah kent his faither" category.
But
Things are looking BLEAK for Labour and Arthur.
#
2012-02-04 00:20
Linda Fabiani should call for Midwinter to substantiate or withdraw his daft assertions rather than get him to apologise as this idiot would never do that. he is an unapologetic labour crony, one who had to hide after all his shouty bitter invective in the lead up to the 2007 elections where he contributed to that vital extra seat for the SNP that allowed them to prove themselves a competent government, particularly where economics and finance are concerned.........if his fabled case could have been made that the SNP Scottish Government were fiscally irresponsible liars then his twot observations would have been a part of the doomed campaign for his beloved failures labour last May when the Scottish people thought otherwise!
This dinosaur is being wheeled out because the press need anybody to say that the Scottish Government are incompetent or liars.................the unionist press are desperate indeed and his guy can shout any old shite and they'll print it regardless of merit or scrutiny and we have seen it all before.
Shout merchants like Midwinter are used for their short term attack dog vacuousness and regardless of how little effect they have the political kryyptonite option suits the likes of the Scotsm@n who with dwindling sales and far less influence on public opinion have little to lose I suppose........but lose they will!
Great stuff!
If honesty and integrity are part of the skills required to make a case for the status quo or Independence, then this guy is severly lacking in these critical and key talents and his case to be advertised as always by the sc@tsman as some unbiased independent voice with economic expertise is a ridiculous twist on the truth.
I'd believe any respected economist could support him if his accusations were truthful, and yet the respected proper economists don't agree with this idiot, I. Fact they say the opposite.........is it because they aren't ex labour councillors perhaps?
This dinosaur is being wheeled out because the press need anybody to say that the Scottish Government are incompetent or liars.................the unionist press are desperate indeed and his guy can shout any old shite and they'll print it regardless of merit or scrutiny and we have seen it all before.
Shout merchants like Midwinter are used for their short term attack dog vacuousness and regardless of how little effect they have the political kryyptonite option suits the likes of the Scotsm@n who with dwindling sales and far less influence on public opinion have little to lose I suppose........but lose they will!
Great stuff!
If honesty and integrity are part of the skills required to make a case for the status quo or Independence, then this guy is severly lacking in these critical and key talents and his case to be advertised as always by the sc@tsman as some unbiased independent voice with economic expertise is a ridiculous twist on the truth.
I'd believe any respected economist could support him if his accusations were truthful, and yet the respected proper economists don't agree with this idiot, I. Fact they say the opposite.........is it because they aren't ex labour councillors perhaps?
#
2012-02-04 00:26
o/t
Another Travesty by the BBC.
The documentary about the history and restoration of the Cutty Sark clipper ship made no mention that it was designed and built in Glasgow. This is not the first BBC documentary to do this. Anyone watching would have concluded it was built in London.
Why are they writing Scotland out of history?
Of course it has been rebuilt during its restoration in London after the fire, but that is beside the point.
Another Travesty by the BBC.
The documentary about the history and restoration of the Cutty Sark clipper ship made no mention that it was designed and built in Glasgow. This is not the first BBC documentary to do this. Anyone watching would have concluded it was built in London.
Why are they writing Scotland out of history?
Of course it has been rebuilt during its restoration in London after the fire, but that is beside the point.
#
2012-02-04 00:47
Quoting lumilumi:
We appreciate the support of a Finn, they are remarkable people with a remarkable history. I ve toured Finland and was left with a strong impression of the Finns and their country. You have every right to support us, because a nation of 5 million will stick together with another nation of simmilar size.
When we are free we may even honour you with a Scottish title MacLumi, or MacLuminach !
I wish I could but as I'm a citizen of another country, I have no (moral) right. But I'm supporting you all the way to independence!
What's happening to Scotland now reminds me of a bleak period in Finnish history, when the tzars tried to "Russify" us after 70-80 years of autonomy (our own laws, our own currency, our own tax system, our own school system...) What the tzars succeeded in doing was to stoke up our national feeling and growing support for our independence.
We appreciate the support of a Finn, they are remarkable people with a remarkable history. I ve toured Finland and was left with a strong impression of the Finns and their country. You have every right to support us, because a nation of 5 million will stick together with another nation of simmilar size.
When we are free we may even honour you with a Scottish title MacLumi, or MacLuminach !
#
2012-02-04 02:06
[giggle, blush]
I've been here (and other sites) just to point out the fact that our country genuinely was wee and poor when we became independent. We didn't even have a referendum, our Parliament declared independence on 6 December 1917, while Russia was in the throes of a revolution of their own, and Lenin just nodded it through because he was a bit busy with "more important" things.
I wish they'd declared independence in June or July, early December is a bleak time of the year, dark and sleety, not conducive to street parties. Now we have to gather inside and light two candles on the window - and watch the President's Independence Day Ball on the telly. But independence is a dear thing to every Finn, from WWI and WWII war vererans down to preschool kids.
I've been here (and other sites) just to point out the fact that our country genuinely was wee and poor when we became independent. We didn't even have a referendum, our Parliament declared independence on 6 December 1917, while Russia was in the throes of a revolution of their own, and Lenin just nodded it through because he was a bit busy with "more important" things.
I wish they'd declared independence in June or July, early December is a bleak time of the year, dark and sleety, not conducive to street parties. Now we have to gather inside and light two candles on the window - and watch the President's Independence Day Ball on the telly. But independence is a dear thing to every Finn, from WWI and WWII war vererans down to preschool kids.
#
2012-02-04 20:40
I think I wish I were Finnish. :) I'd choose an Independence Day in dark December weather over no Independence day, certainly. :) You could always celebrate actual Independence Day AND a halfway to I-day in June. Rather like the queen having two birthdays. :) (But with more actual reason for it).
I was once going to go to work in Finland, but I went to London instead. Worst mistake EVER.
I was once going to go to work in Finland, but I went to London instead. Worst mistake EVER.
#
2012-02-04 01:24
"Professor Arthur Midwinter, who was also a Labour councillor for several years [...] former advisor to disgraced former Scottish Labour leader Wendy Alexander..."
Well done, G.A.P.
Well done, G.A.P.
#
2012-02-04 02:33
O/T Scotsman running a smear story
Scotsman trying to link the tax avoidance of the Westminster appointed and paid for Student Loans cheif with the Scottish Government
Apparently, according to the Scotsman, relations are so good between Westminster and teh Scottish Governmen , that everything that passes over Whitehall desks is known to the SG, I kid you not
Even Hugh Henry has got in on the act.
hink Hugh should be challenged on this idiotic assumption that the SG had some involvement in the tax avoidance caper
scotsman.com/.../...
Scotsman trying to link the tax avoidance of the Westminster appointed and paid for Student Loans cheif with the Scottish Government
Apparently, according to the Scotsman, relations are so good between Westminster and teh Scottish Governmen , that everything that passes over Whitehall desks is known to the SG, I kid you not
Even Hugh Henry has got in on the act.
hink Hugh should be challenged on this idiotic assumption that the SG had some involvement in the tax avoidance caper
scotsman.com/.../...
#
2012-02-04 03:01
To be fair. MOst of the comments below the ludicrous article are utterly dismissive. One even calling the MSM "Orwellian" in its approach to news stories. Like has been said before, the people of Scotland are not stupid. They wont take in this level of hysterical propaganda. The Scottish electorate is actually the most forward thinking in the UK. We started tactically voting before anyone else.
OT
Just watched FMQ's. Lamont is a babbling, patronising incompitent, whilst Davidson is just a bit, well, mental. AS tore her a new one. Has wullie rennie been blown away in the wind? I havent heard a cheep out of him in weeks.
He's not in the darkened room in dispair with you lot is he?
OT
Just watched FMQ's. Lamont is a babbling, patronising incompitent, whilst Davidson is just a bit, well, mental. AS tore her a new one. Has wullie rennie been blown away in the wind? I havent heard a cheep out of him in weeks.
He's not in the darkened room in dispair with you lot is he?
#
2012-02-04 03:32
Unbelievable.
Next they'll say Alex Salmond actually drove Chris Huhne's car and got him to take the points, which he passed on to his (ex)wife. So it's all Alex Salmond's and the SNP's fault, you see.
Next they'll say Alex Salmond actually drove Chris Huhne's car and got him to take the points, which he passed on to his (ex)wife. So it's all Alex Salmond's and the SNP's fault, you see.
#
2012-02-04 18:14
Interesting to see the blogs from Lumilumi.Since Excel lives in Finland and I have lived there for eight years,have family there and visit regularly,perha ps we should organise a Finnish SNP branch?
Whatever,it is nice to see that Scottish Nationalism is international,u nlike the inward looking view of our many of our unionist politicians.To get back on topic,the credability of Prof Midwinter is comprimised by his membership of the labour party.I also understand that his degree does not major in economics.I prefer to listen to non aligned and respected academics (including one with a Nobel Prize) on the economic prospects of an independent Scotland.
Whatever,it is nice to see that Scottish Nationalism is international,u nlike the inward looking view of our many of our unionist politicians.To get back on topic,the credability of Prof Midwinter is comprimised by his membership of the labour party.I also understand that his degree does not major in economics.I prefer to listen to non aligned and respected academics (including one with a Nobel Prize) on the economic prospects of an independent Scotland.
#
2012-02-04 20:44
Quoting Suomi:
Oh dear no. That would actually be rational and sensible. The "Scotsman" newspaper would not like that at all. :)
... I also understand that his degree does not major in economics.I prefer to listen to non aligned and respected academics (including one with a Nobel Prize) on the economic prospects of an independent Scotland.
Oh dear no. That would actually be rational and sensible. The "Scotsman" newspaper would not like that at all. :)
#
2012-02-04 20:57
Suomi 2012-02-04 17:14
"Interesting to see the blogs from Lumilumi.Since Excel lives in Finland and I have lived there for eight years,have family there and visit regularly,perha ps we should organise a Finnish SNP branch?"
Very interesting Suomi, I have been labouring under the impression that EXCEL is a moniker used by the “SDA tag team” to wind me up.
Leaves me wondering if:
A) Lumilumi and Excel are the same poster?
B) Soumi, Lumilumi and Excel are the same poster?
C) They are all members of the SDA?
D) They are all members of the SNP?
It does not really matter none of them are likely to have a vote in Scotland. So best to ignore all three and have another dram.
"Interesting to see the blogs from Lumilumi.Since Excel lives in Finland and I have lived there for eight years,have family there and visit regularly,perha ps we should organise a Finnish SNP branch?"
Very interesting Suomi, I have been labouring under the impression that EXCEL is a moniker used by the “SDA tag team” to wind me up.
Leaves me wondering if:
A) Lumilumi and Excel are the same poster?
B) Soumi, Lumilumi and Excel are the same poster?
C) They are all members of the SDA?
D) They are all members of the SNP?
It does not really matter none of them are likely to have a vote in Scotland. So best to ignore all three and have another dram.
#
2012-02-05 17:10
"Half way through this article I found myself starting to hum ' in the bleak midwinter'"
Damn you tartanfever, I now can't get that bliddy tune out of my head....
Damn you tartanfever, I now can't get that bliddy tune out of my head....
Donate to Newsnet Scotland
Latest Comments
- How to make and understand the...
We, as independence supporters, need to ... - How to make and understand the...
The statement “The UK is the seventh wea... - A statement by Justice for Meg...
This whole carnival of arcane blackwash ... - A statement by Justice for Meg...
O /T Aplication for audience participati... - Lockerbie: Abdelbaset Al-Megra...
O /T Aplication for audience participati... - A statement by Justice for Meg...
"Now he should take the next step and in... - How to make and understand the...
It's a pity that Gerry appears to be fal... - Labour group in Aberdeen Counc...
O/T but relevant to Labour shennanigans,... - Yes campaign set to launch as ...
I had a man girning to me about the sepe... - How to make and understand the...
Just been on the Ipsos MORI site and the... - A statement by Justice for Meg...
The Truth is going to be very very diffi... - Lockerbie: Abdelbaset Al-Megra...
Scottish Daily Express on line quote by ... - Lockerbie: Abdelbaset Al-Megra...
Anyone doubting the fairness of Megrahi'... - How to make and understand the...
We know that the economic argument is im... - Lockerbie: Abdelbaset Al-Megra...
No doubt this had been said already but ... - How to make and understand the...
the unionist campaign has no vision for ... - Lockerbie: Abdelbaset Al-Megra...
Reading a bitter comment - not the only ... - How to make and understand the...
Slightly O/T but if only we could have a... - Lockerbie: Abdelbaset Al-Megra...
I feel sick, are people really this vind... - How to make and understand the...
Gerry "Some of the lack of empathy and u...