Sunday, 05 February 2012 00:34
146 Comments
by Ben Borland
A battle for Antarctica is looming after the House of Lords approved plans to “take back” control inadvertently given to Scotland.
The UK’s international rights and responsibilities in the territory were devolved in 1999, meaning ministers in Edinburgh have responsibility for Scottish expeditions and research – although few officials were even aware of it.
Now the Coalition wants to “re-reserve” Antarctica to Westminster through the new Scotland Bill, currently being debated in London. Although SNP ministers are not against the plan, the Scotland Bill Committee at Holyrood has said it should not go ahead.
Former Scottish Secretary Lord Forsyth of Drumlean suggested last week that First Minister Alex Salmond was now “pressing for some control over Antarctica”.
He told the House of Lords: “As far as I know, Donald Trump has no plans to build a leisure facility in Antarctica, so I cannot imagine why the First Minister would think that his writ should run to Antarctica.” During a debate on Thursday, former Deputy First Minister Lord Wallace of Tankerness and former Lord Advocate Lord Boyd of Duncansby admitted they did not know about the powers.
Labour’s former First Minister Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale added that he had never once discussed the issue of Antarctica during his five and-a-half year term.
Lord Forsyth said: “The Bill is about the exercise of power – we have taken back Antarctica; we are giving other things and it defines the powers of the Scottish Parliament.” Lord Sewel of Gilcomstoun, a former Labour Scottish Office minister, even blasted his own party’s “incompetence” in allowing Antarctica to be devolved in the first place.
He said: “It is a disgrace that, because of the incompetence of ministers in 1998, we have had to re-reserve Antarctica, which is now finishing up where it belongs.”
The first Scotland Bill committee at Holyrood – which sat in the last parliament under Labour convener Wendy Alexander – did not oppose the re-reservation of Antarctica.However, the current committee, convened by SNP MSP Linda Fabiani, has come out strongly against the idea.
The Duke of Montrose told the House of Lords: “The question of Antarctica is particularly interesting because one Scotland Bill committee of the Scottish Parliament felt that it could agree to this being included in the Bill, but the next committee came out and said that it would not agree. We still await the final outcome.”
Meanwhile, two of the most senior members of the Labour/Liberal Democrat Holyrood coalition confessed they had not heard of the legislation.
Lord Boyd said: “As a Scottish Minister, I was not aware that we had any responsibility for Antarctica. I see my noble friend Lord McConnell nodding, so I do not think that he was aware of his responsibility. Clearly, that was a dereliction of duty.”
Lord McConnell insisted he never discussed Antarctica during his time in charge.
Lord Wallace, the Liberal Democrat peer and Advocate General, added: “If the former First Minister knew that he had responsibilities for Antarctica, it is clear that he was not advised on it by his senior law officer, and he certainly did not share the fact with his Deputy.”
A spokesman for Bruce Crawford, the Cabinet Secretary for Parliamentary Business, said ministers were not opposed to the proposal but believed it could be done in a more “streamlined” way.
He added: “Tory Lords never miss an opportunity to talk Scotland down, but they should stick to the facts. The Scottish Government’s priority is making Scotland better, and realising our potential.”
Article courtesy of the Scottish Sunday Express
Comments
#
2012-02-05 01:13
And the lesson of the Rugby is ?
Even when you have an abundance of advantages, if you don't take your chances - you will get punished.
Vote Yes to Independence.
Even when you have an abundance of advantages, if you don't take your chances - you will get punished.
Vote Yes to Independence.
#
2012-02-05 14:31
".. Lord Forsyth.... I cannot imagine why the First Minister would think that his writ should run to Antarctica.”
Any more than I can imagine why Wastemonster thinks it's writ runs there (or here if it comes to that!) either
Any more than I can imagine why Wastemonster thinks it's writ runs there (or here if it comes to that!) either
#
2012-02-05 01:26
Once again, it's oops-a-daisy, we forgot to not give Antarctica to Scotland as a devolved issue - like so many other things - crivvins, and help ma boab!
So, that's it then, we'll just take it back, don't ye know!
You, really couldn't make this stuff up - even Irvine Welsh would be stretched!
So, that's it then, we'll just take it back, don't ye know!
You, really couldn't make this stuff up - even Irvine Welsh would be stretched!
#
2012-02-05 10:10
Quoting J Wil:
Whaoa! There! If memory serves me right, there is thought to be oil, lots of oil, in Antartica. It's our oil and we are keeping it. Mind you it might mean we also retain one of those shiny new Attack Class Submarines the Wastemonster has ordered up more of. They are nuclear powererd but not nuclear armed. We might need to defend our Antarctic territories against those who want them - Like the new English lot that will come into being after we disolve that UK one at Wastemonster.
It should be kept as a bargaining chip against dirty unionist tricks.
Whaoa! There! If memory serves me right, there is thought to be oil, lots of oil, in Antartica. It's our oil and we are keeping it. Mind you it might mean we also retain one of those shiny new Attack Class Submarines the Wastemonster has ordered up more of. They are nuclear powererd but not nuclear armed. We might need to defend our Antarctic territories against those who want them - Like the new English lot that will come into being after we disolve that UK one at Wastemonster.
#
2012-02-05 14:01
It may have been a better acquisition to have rights to the Arctic, at least in the shorter term, although we might have been competing with Russia and America.
Also, I thought there was some international agreement that the Antarctic would not belong to any particular country and does that mean any country who decides to do so can exploit its oil reserves?
Also, I thought there was some international agreement that the Antarctic would not belong to any particular country and does that mean any country who decides to do so can exploit its oil reserves?
#
2012-02-05 14:52
Samll flaw in your argument Auld Bob.. All the nations have agreed not to commercially exploit Antartica and that deal is governed by some UN rule.
#
2012-02-05 01:35
I think this is only the start Barontorc.Westminster will use the next two years going over every document refering to Scotland,They will scrutinise every word in their task of stripping every asset they can before letting us go.
#
2012-02-05 10:03
rgweir
exactly my concern. An unelected bunch, who we pay for, spending every waking moment trawling through legislation to negate any potential benefit to their country of birth.
It proves the old adage - power devolved is power retained - you can take it back at ANY TIME.
If we vote no the legislation to prevent a referendum every taking place again will be statute before the count is finished.
exactly my concern. An unelected bunch, who we pay for, spending every waking moment trawling through legislation to negate any potential benefit to their country of birth.
It proves the old adage - power devolved is power retained - you can take it back at ANY TIME.
If we vote no the legislation to prevent a referendum every taking place again will be statute before the count is finished.
#
2012-02-05 01:49
O/T - Never mind that, have you seen Mundell's little wheeze (Scotsman, wouldn't you know):
scotsman.com/.../...
ALMOST 60,000 EU nationals living in Scotland will be allowed to vote on Scottish independence, the UK Government has revealed.
Scotland Office minister David Mundell has told MPs that 58,004 residents from European Union nations are eligible to take part in the ballot due to take place in 2014.
The disclosure has renewed the controversy over which groups can take part in the referendum when Scots living in the rest of the UK or in other countries will be denied a vote under current rules. It led to new demands yesterday for the franchise to at least be extended to the estimated 750,000 Scots living south of the Border and for UK voting rules to be adopted.
Etc.
scotsman.com/.../...
ALMOST 60,000 EU nationals living in Scotland will be allowed to vote on Scottish independence, the UK Government has revealed.
Scotland Office minister David Mundell has told MPs that 58,004 residents from European Union nations are eligible to take part in the ballot due to take place in 2014.
The disclosure has renewed the controversy over which groups can take part in the referendum when Scots living in the rest of the UK or in other countries will be denied a vote under current rules. It led to new demands yesterday for the franchise to at least be extended to the estimated 750,000 Scots living south of the Border and for UK voting rules to be adopted.
Etc.
#
2012-02-05 01:57
Presumably they are eleigible to vote if they meet the residency qualifications AND are on the Electoral Role.
Is Mr Mundell going to have a voter registration drive?
Is Mr Mundell going to have a voter registration drive?
#
2012-02-05 10:22
The usual muddle-headed Mundell muckraking. The ONLY people who will be, "Allowed", to vote are those registered to do so. Does this silly wee muddle-headed numptie think these Europeans will all rush to register to vote in what most of them will have little interest? Does he think every holiday-maker on a European break registers to vote it whatever country they are, temprarily resident in. Next the brain-dead numptie will dream up a scare story that all, "My Little Ponies", will by extradited to England after independence as they are English ponies. Sheesh!
#
2012-02-05 22:46
Well they are going to suffer when we tel them they can no longer use the T.V, phones, Penicillin, ether, the pneumatic tyre, carbon brushes for dynamos, wire rope, cordite, roller printing, stamps, insulin, anasthetic, beta blockers, the fridge, the flush toilet, lime cordial, bovril, or the Bank of England!!!
And once we've got those back we'll start on the other Scottish inventions!
Ha Ha... take that you petty little lords...
Lets see you spread your propoganda without roads, bridges, t.v, phones, or printed media...
I guess your down to Radio stations BBC 1 through 5 million....
And once we've got those back we'll start on the other Scottish inventions!
Ha Ha... take that you petty little lords...
Lets see you spread your propoganda without roads, bridges, t.v, phones, or printed media...
I guess your down to Radio stations BBC 1 through 5 million....
#
2012-02-05 13:12
John Swinney covered the subject very well in this mornings Politics Show with very little fuss.
#
2012-02-05 14:59
Alex Salmond knocked that one on the head tout suite. He said that previous elections and the the referendum for Devolution to Scotland both included EU nationals and that has not changed for the coming referendum.
The point is that it is people who live in Scotland and have made their lives here that are elegible to vote and people who have a direct stake in Scotland's wellbeing.
The point is that it is people who live in Scotland and have made their lives here that are elegible to vote and people who have a direct stake in Scotland's wellbeing.
#
2012-02-09 17:39
Request the "Scotsman" change it's name to the "UNIONIST TIMES "
This would be more in line with their bias editorial.
This would be more in line with their bias editorial.
#
2012-02-05 01:54
When I read the Scotland Bill when it was first published I could not for the life of me understand why it had clauses in it about Antartics. I could not see what that had to do with Scotland and more powers for the Scottish Parliament.
This explains it. What a shower.
This explains it. What a shower.
#
2012-02-05 02:20
Antarctica includes the South Shetland and South Orkney Islands in the Scotia Sea!
#
2012-02-05 02:30
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this Bill needs to be passed by Holyrood, too, doeasn't it?
#
2012-02-05 04:14
Yes, it needs Holyrood approval. So you could say that the House of Lords amendments haven't got a snowball's chance of making it into law.
#
2012-02-05 06:23
yeah, but it's worth keeping in mind that if we don't achieve independence and SNP lose power afterwards the bill will be put through if the unionist parties have a collective majority.
#
2012-02-05 10:31
Quoting Nik:
Yes it does. Seriously, there is lots of oil thought to be under there. In any case, if it were a total desert Wastemonster wouldn't want it. However, whether Scotland wants it or not, we hang on to it as a) a bargining chip: b)spite. c) Because it's there.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this Bill needs to be passed by Holyrood, too, doeasn't it?
Yes it does. Seriously, there is lots of oil thought to be under there. In any case, if it were a total desert Wastemonster wouldn't want it. However, whether Scotland wants it or not, we hang on to it as a) a bargining chip: b)spite. c) Because it's there.
#
2012-02-05 14:13
Bob, I think that the Antarctic Treaty does not allow mineral extraction. Need to read up latest, Protocol on Environmental Protection under the Antarctic Treaty.
#
2012-02-05 17:51
There is always the possibility that the Commons will ignore the worst amendments put forward by the Lords as being too provocative and endangering the acceptance of the bill by the Scottish Parliament. It's the small print that needs watching. As there is a tendency for the SNP to be careful about rejecting something out of hand (its called fairness) they may be tempted to accept the bill.
#
2012-02-05 02:55
It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest penguin gives up but with life itself.
#
2012-02-05 10:34
Quoting InfrequentAllel e:
They have the same rights as the Falklanders and that means Wastemonster should send a state of the art Destroyer to guard those poor penguins from invasion by the Argies.
It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest penguin gives up but with life itself.
They have the same rights as the Falklanders and that means Wastemonster should send a state of the art Destroyer to guard those poor penguins from invasion by the Argies.
#
2012-02-05 13:05
Quoting Aucheorn:
By the way, "Aucheorn", did you know there was a WWII submarine with, (Almost), your name - HMS Acheron
uboat.net/.../3605.html
I's alright we'll have these subs from Faslane, Oor Penguins are well protected.
By the way, "Aucheorn", did you know there was a WWII submarine with, (Almost), your name - HMS Acheron
uboat.net/.../3605.html
#
2012-02-05 14:10
Sorry to disappoint you, Bob, but the Antarctic Treaty does not allow military activity there.
#
2012-02-05 04:30
Quote:
This beggars belief! Readers of Newsnet will have known for more than 18 months that the draft Scotland Bill included the re-reservation of rights and responsibilitie s over Antarctica. So how did these "lords" and "ministers" not know? Had they even read it before now?
The talking down of Scotland continues with every utterance of these supposedly Scottish ministers. The worst from the above is lord Sewell's remarks about Antarctica "being back where it belongs". Has not Scotland already paid for its share (and probably more than its share) of all "British" research and development up to this point? Did not a significant part of Shackleton's funding come from Scottish businessmen? Were there no Scotsmen on Shackleton's expeditions? Has there been no Scottish research in Antarctica conducted by Scottish universities and research institutes?
These "lords" and "ministers", and all unionist members of the previous Wendy Alexander committee, are working hard to sell out Scotland yet again. Thank God for the internet, and for Newsnet.
During a debate on Thursday, former Deputy First Minister Lord Wallace of Tankerness and former Lord Advocate Lord Boyd of Duncansby admitted they did not know about the powers.
This beggars belief! Readers of Newsnet will have known for more than 18 months that the draft Scotland Bill included the re-reservation of rights and responsibilitie s over Antarctica. So how did these "lords" and "ministers" not know? Had they even read it before now?
The talking down of Scotland continues with every utterance of these supposedly Scottish ministers. The worst from the above is lord Sewell's remarks about Antarctica "being back where it belongs". Has not Scotland already paid for its share (and probably more than its share) of all "British" research and development up to this point? Did not a significant part of Shackleton's funding come from Scottish businessmen? Were there no Scotsmen on Shackleton's expeditions? Has there been no Scottish research in Antarctica conducted by Scottish universities and research institutes?
These "lords" and "ministers", and all unionist members of the previous Wendy Alexander committee, are working hard to sell out Scotland yet again. Thank God for the internet, and for Newsnet.
#
2012-02-05 08:21
I think this will make interesting reading, particularly as he had his Polar Medal withheld:
en.wikipedia.org/.../...
en.wikipedia.org/.../...
#
2012-02-05 08:47
Thanks. Hadn't heard of Bruce before, and I daresay few have. All the more reason to have Scottish history taught in our schools.
I think the photo in the Assessment section would have been an equally brilliant photo for the top of this article:
en.wikipedia.org/.../...
I think the photo in the Assessment section would have been an equally brilliant photo for the top of this article:
en.wikipedia.org/.../...
#
2012-02-05 14:42
Not quite true :truth"
The Wilkipedia entry actually states "neither he nor any of his SNAE colleagues were recommended by the RGS for the prestigious Polar Medal."
The Wilkipedia entry actually states "neither he nor any of his SNAE colleagues were recommended by the RGS for the prestigious Polar Medal."
#
2012-02-05 17:54
I am sure the Antarctic business was mentioned some time ago (a few years ago) in the blogs. At the time the SG was trying to get permission to stop airguns being used in Scotland.
#
2012-02-05 07:27
Once again, they confuse England with the United Kingdom.
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?
#
2012-02-05 09:44
Yep and I posted this:
"Isn't it time the English started looking after themselves, stopped relying on subsidies from smaller countries and blaming everyone else for their woes?"
"Isn't it time the English started looking after themselves, stopped relying on subsidies from smaller countries and blaming everyone else for their woes?"
#
2012-02-05 11:47
My email to Guardian/Observer
Seldom have I seen such a vitriolic attack on a PM or FM. It is totally unwarranted and gratuitous, and quite frankly just a cheap pot shot at Alex Salmond's expense. Not funny at all, just sick and will appeal to the likes of BNP voters.
This is truly a pathetic, racist attack on the huge number of people in Scotland of all nationalities who support Independence.
England needs to take responsibility for its own future and should not blame their woes on the people of Scotland or Alex Salmond.
Shame on Guardian/Observer it has become just another msm newspaper appealing to mass hysteria and London dogma. I am seriously considering not buying the paper it has become so anti Scottish.
Seldom have I seen such a vitriolic attack on a PM or FM. It is totally unwarranted and gratuitous, and quite frankly just a cheap pot shot at Alex Salmond's expense. Not funny at all, just sick and will appeal to the likes of BNP voters.
This is truly a pathetic, racist attack on the huge number of people in Scotland of all nationalities who support Independence.
England needs to take responsibility for its own future and should not blame their woes on the people of Scotland or Alex Salmond.
Shame on Guardian/Observer it has become just another msm newspaper appealing to mass hysteria and London dogma. I am seriously considering not buying the paper it has become so anti Scottish.
#
2012-02-05 12:34
Seriously considering not buying the rag?
You are Joking right?
In contrast, I have been propaganda newspaper free for some years now.
Invest in a decent smartphone and you will never need a newspaper again.
You are Joking right?
In contrast, I have been propaganda newspaper free for some years now.
Invest in a decent smartphone and you will never need a newspaper again.
#
2012-02-05 15:46
Invest in a decent smartphone and you will never need a newspaper again.
Yes but! Economics comes into it.
Yes but! Economics comes into it.
#
2012-02-05 12:51
Hi Mad Jock, I assume there were comments when you posted. Did yours ever appear?
What is the point of putting an article on Comment is Free then banning comment? Especially one as nasty as this.
What is the point of putting an article on Comment is Free then banning comment? Especially one as nasty as this.
#
2012-02-05 14:04
Finally got a link which showed the comments. Dropped in a little ray of sunshine.
#
2012-02-05 10:36
It was bilious in the extreme
When the 'argument' is reduced to this, you know that the finishing line is in sight
When the 'argument' is reduced to this, you know that the finishing line is in sight
#
2012-02-05 10:39
Disgusting. Full of disgraceful insults heaped on Scots. In fact is this not pejorative in the same way that WW2 Nazi propaganda was pejorative about the Jews? .. surely a hate crime ...
#
2012-02-05 10:46
Quoting Diabloandco:
Probably not. Which is why the rag that carries it has seen its readership crash. However, it should be made compulsory reading in every home in Scotland. We need such hate filled junk to boost our drive for independence from people who write, and read, such stupidity.
Anyone read this travesty of journalism?
guardian.co.uk/.../...
Probably not. Which is why the rag that carries it has seen its readership crash. However, it should be made compulsory reading in every home in Scotland. We need such hate filled junk to boost our drive for independence from people who write, and read, such stupidity.
#
2012-02-05 10:47
No comments allowed and I had a few choice ones in mind.
Edit: Finally got to comment
Edit: Finally got to comment
#
2012-02-05 11:13
"At the event, Alex Salmond and I were standing next to a buffet overflowing with Scottish produce, – venison, Baxters soup, Highland Toffee, shortbread, heroin and salmon"
Heroin?
Must have been drunk, high or mad.
Heroin?
Must have been drunk, high or mad.
#
2012-02-05 11:25
I actually logged in to highlight this travesty of an article but am glad someone else noted it.
This is the start of the attacks on the man and not the policy.
They cannot fault the policy so they are trying to demonise the man.
This is the start of the attacks on the man and not the policy.
They cannot fault the policy so they are trying to demonise the man.
#
2012-02-05 13:13
Quoting Sleekit:
Aye! Sleekit, it is know in debate as, "ad hominem", and is usually a good sign that the person has nothing else to offer. Good competators love it when it is used as they can demolish it and win the point.
They cannot fault the policy so they are trying to demonise the man.
Aye! Sleekit, it is know in debate as, "ad hominem", and is usually a good sign that the person has nothing else to offer. Good competators love it when it is used as they can demolish it and win the point.
#
2012-02-05 12:33
Quoting Diabloandco:
Yes - just a disgusting, rather racist attack.
Anyone read this travesty of journalism?
guardian.co.uk/.../...
Yes - just a disgusting, rather racist attack.
#
2012-02-05 12:43
Quoting rhymer:
Quoting Diabloandco:One of the worst I've seen in the MSM. It is growing increasingly difficult to see how we can avoid having the entire debate dragged into the sewer by the British nationalist media.Anyone read this travesty of journalism?
guardian.co.uk/.../...
Yes - just a disgusting, rather racist attack.
#
2012-02-05 12:54
Agree. Ruaridh Nicholl on twitter loves it though,
Quote:
perhaps he commissioned it himself.
Incidentally Stewart Lee like so many Labour men screaming to be saved from the Bullingdon boys is an ex public schoolboy and Oxbridge Graduate.
Quote:
Ruaridhnicoll Ruaridh Nicoll Stewart Lee's column on Scottish independence is pure dead brilliant. If you read one thing today: guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/… 2 hours ago
perhaps he commissioned it himself.
Incidentally Stewart Lee like so many Labour men screaming to be saved from the Bullingdon boys is an ex public schoolboy and Oxbridge Graduate.
#
2012-02-05 13:16
Quoting Electric Hermit:
Why would we attempt to stop it? Just don't join it. That way we are above ground while they are down in the sewage.
Yes - just a disgusting, rather racist attack.One of the worst I've seen in the MSM. It is growing increasingly difficult to see how we can avoid having the entire debate dragged into the sewer by the British nationalist media.
Why would we attempt to stop it? Just don't join it. That way we are above ground while they are down in the sewage.
#
2012-02-05 09:40
Note to Eck - just give them Antartica - we have more than enough penguins at Edinburgh Zoo :-D
#
2012-02-05 10:44
There should be no giving away anything. There will be a fair division of UK assets on independence.
.. but anyway this Scotland bill is dead .. These worthless traitors in the house of lords are taking money under false pretences.
.. but anyway this Scotland bill is dead .. These worthless traitors in the house of lords are taking money under false pretences.
#
2012-02-05 10:56
Quoting Mad Jock McMad:
To paraphrase the English translation of the Declaration of Arbroath -
"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for Penguins — for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself".
Note to Eck - just give them Antartica - we have more than enough penguins at Edinburgh Zoo :-D
To paraphrase the English translation of the Declaration of Arbroath -
"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for Penguins — for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself".
#
2012-02-05 10:46
O/T - Seen the headline in The Telegraph "
Snow and ice blanket Britain: transport system in chaos
Wonder which minister will lose his job over this - Aye Right
Snow and ice blanket Britain: transport system in chaos
Wonder which minister will lose his job over this - Aye Right
#
2012-02-05 11:00
LOL it happens here in the highlands every winter but we just get on with it even in feet of snow. Six inches in the south of England and everything grinds to a halt.
#
2012-02-05 11:11
I was on a course in Brixham, in Devon, when they got less than 1" of snow. The course was at the Decca College and the car park was up a steep driveway. We came out of class and there was utter panic. I had to ferry every single car from that car park down to the main road for their owners. Then the whole area was brought to a halt. Nothing was moving on that under 1" of snow. I drove to my digs up a street that was very steep. These Devon towns are built on the steep sides of cliftsides of coves.
#
2012-02-05 11:30
Antarctica -
An ancestor of mine was one of the scientific officers who was part of the Scottish expedition of 1902-10 led by William Spiers Bruce on the famous Scotia (now thought to be a wreck somewhere off the Welsh coast).
This expedition was constantly thwarted by the various geographical societies etc. who favoured the more gung-ho adventure of Scott (sadly all to die in the process) rather than the oceanographic survey and scientific work by Bruce and his team. Finance was refused and/or made very difficult - and his allegiance to Scotland were thought to be just some of the reasons why William Bruce was constantly turned down by the powers that be in London.
There are remarkable records and books written about William Bruce and his orignal scientific work around Antarctica - Neil Oliver made a programme about this Scottish scientist and explorer a few months ago.
My ancestor's work can still be accessed in the Scottish National/Natural History Museum for research today. Bruce's work was hailed by many serious scientists - but inevitably overshadowed by the brave but doomed pursuit of Scott and his hapless adventurers.
My ancestor has a mountain named after him in Antarctica after surviving a prolonged period of self-sufficiency and survival on Laurie Island(penguins were apparently not terribly tasty but at least sustaining)as the Scotia crew continued their work. The famous photo of The Piper and the Penguin was taken during Bruce's expedition.
It might be interesting to know exactly how much of Bruce's scientific work and survey has led to the 'UK' interest in the region?
Many of William S Bruce's Scotia exedition records are held in the University of Glasgow and the Royal Scottish Geographical Society, Perth.
An ancestor of mine was one of the scientific officers who was part of the Scottish expedition of 1902-10 led by William Spiers Bruce on the famous Scotia (now thought to be a wreck somewhere off the Welsh coast).
This expedition was constantly thwarted by the various geographical societies etc. who favoured the more gung-ho adventure of Scott (sadly all to die in the process) rather than the oceanographic survey and scientific work by Bruce and his team. Finance was refused and/or made very difficult - and his allegiance to Scotland were thought to be just some of the reasons why William Bruce was constantly turned down by the powers that be in London.
There are remarkable records and books written about William Bruce and his orignal scientific work around Antarctica - Neil Oliver made a programme about this Scottish scientist and explorer a few months ago.
My ancestor's work can still be accessed in the Scottish National/Natural History Museum for research today. Bruce's work was hailed by many serious scientists - but inevitably overshadowed by the brave but doomed pursuit of Scott and his hapless adventurers.
My ancestor has a mountain named after him in Antarctica after surviving a prolonged period of self-sufficiency and survival on Laurie Island(penguins were apparently not terribly tasty but at least sustaining)as the Scotia crew continued their work. The famous photo of The Piper and the Penguin was taken during Bruce's expedition.
It might be interesting to know exactly how much of Bruce's scientific work and survey has led to the 'UK' interest in the region?
Many of William S Bruce's Scotia exedition records are held in the University of Glasgow and the Royal Scottish Geographical Society, Perth.
#
2012-02-05 12:23
**URGENT - VIDEO ONLY AVAILABLE ON IPLAYER UNTIL TODAY 5 FEBRUARY, 6,59 PM**
(Maybe you have already seen it, it apparently went out on 2 February on BBC2)
Clarinda - a fascinating story - and Neil Oliver's programme - was it a radio or TV programme? Was it broadcast, and can it still be seen anywhere?
Yes! I've just found it on the BBC iplayer, but unfortunately, only UK residents can view - a benefit of the union!
bbc.co.uk/.../...
Neil Oliver retraces the expeditions of four Scottish explorers who planted ideas rather than flags - ideas that shaped the modern world we know today. Following in the footsteps of a scientific explorer who has become all but lost to history, Neil charts the remarkable story of William Speirs Bruce, one of Britain's greatest, but least-known, explorers. Bruce set out to conquer Antarctica, not for imperial glory, but to advance scientific knowledge in an era when exploration had become harnessed to national prestige.
(Maybe you have already seen it, it apparently went out on 2 February on BBC2)
Clarinda - a fascinating story - and Neil Oliver's programme - was it a radio or TV programme? Was it broadcast, and can it still be seen anywhere?
Yes! I've just found it on the BBC iplayer, but unfortunately, only UK residents can view - a benefit of the union!
bbc.co.uk/.../...
Neil Oliver retraces the expeditions of four Scottish explorers who planted ideas rather than flags - ideas that shaped the modern world we know today. Following in the footsteps of a scientific explorer who has become all but lost to history, Neil charts the remarkable story of William Speirs Bruce, one of Britain's greatest, but least-known, explorers. Bruce set out to conquer Antarctica, not for imperial glory, but to advance scientific knowledge in an era when exploration had become harnessed to national prestige.
#
2012-02-05 11:32
Absolutely hilarious!!!
If you want to have a really good laugh:
dailymail.co.uk/.../...
A Hadrian’s Wall-style border might have to be built to stop illegal migrants flooding into England if Scotland gets independence.
Other dramatic possible consequences would be David Cameron having to give up part of his £3 billion EU rebate, and the UK’s voting strength in Brussels being slashed.
The potential side-effects of Scotland breaking away are outlined in a Foreign Office memo leaked to The Mail on Sunday.
And the very best:
London could raise objections if the split were not ‘amicable’, the document warns. ‘Remaining-UK would have a veto and could decide to make life difficult,’ it says (the memo)
Plus a last insulting note to the readers
Hadrian’s Wall was built along the border by the Romans from 122AD.
(Ah! The Romans new best)
If you want to have a really good laugh:
dailymail.co.uk/.../...
A Hadrian’s Wall-style border might have to be built to stop illegal migrants flooding into England if Scotland gets independence.
Other dramatic possible consequences would be David Cameron having to give up part of his £3 billion EU rebate, and the UK’s voting strength in Brussels being slashed.
The potential side-effects of Scotland breaking away are outlined in a Foreign Office memo leaked to The Mail on Sunday.
And the very best:
London could raise objections if the split were not ‘amicable’, the document warns. ‘Remaining-UK would have a veto and could decide to make life difficult,’ it says (the memo)
Plus a last insulting note to the readers
Hadrian’s Wall was built along the border by the Romans from 122AD.
(Ah! The Romans new best)
#
2012-02-05 13:43
Isn't it so true that some things never change. The UK dominated by England was always grudging to credit Scots. This should change quite soon It's comin yet fir a that.
#
2012-02-05 13:50
They still don't realise that there will be NO Rump UK after independence. First of all the United Kingdom will still exist as we all are united under the same crown head. Secondly the Treaty of Union only had two equal sovereign countries as signatories. Now, while there will still be a Wales and Northern Ireland, they will revert to being under the English crown as England is a Constitutional monarchy and the Queen of England is their legal head of State and, being head of state it is her sovereignth that is delegated to the, (not yet elected), Her Majesty's English Parliament. Westminster will become an illegal parliament as all MPs, (including the Scottish ones), are elected to the UK parliament which cannopt now exist.
#
2012-02-05 14:48
"Plus a last insulting note to the readers
Hadrian’s Wall was built along the border by the Romans from 122AD."
(Ah! The Romans new best)
The English would never admit they were a conquered nation under the Romans and Hadrians wall was built to keep them from escaping. The sentries along the top,of the wall were facing south, according to a recently discovered Roman manuscript.
Hadrian’s Wall was built along the border by the Romans from 122AD."
(Ah! The Romans new best)
The English would never admit they were a conquered nation under the Romans and Hadrians wall was built to keep them from escaping. The sentries along the top,of the wall were facing south, according to a recently discovered Roman manuscript.
#
2012-02-05 12:42
The Mail has gone completely infantile - even their readers are starting to complain about the poor research and accuracy.
#
2012-02-05 11:43
This from conservativehome.blogs.com/.../..., more laughs... mixed with tears, though.
The London Scottish Conservative Club: Five reasons why Britain is better off with Scotland in it
(The London Scottish Conservative Club is a network for Conservatives in London with Scottish roots.)
There are many voices which risk being lost in the debate over the future of the UK, not least those advocating why it’s not just in Scotland’s best interest for us to remain united.
1) The Acts of Union created one of the most enduring relationships in the history of the world. Why fix something which isn't broken?
2) The impending Scotland Act will make Scotland more accountable for its own public spending
3) Scottish independence could mean the UK's largest trading partner has a different currency entailing greater risk, cost and bureaucracy
4) An independent Scotland would entail a significant loss in HMT revenues from the North Sea!!!!????
5) Scotland’s contribution to Britain’s armed forces is far greater than its population share (the tears)
The London Scottish Conservative Club: Five reasons why Britain is better off with Scotland in it
(The London Scottish Conservative Club is a network for Conservatives in London with Scottish roots.)
There are many voices which risk being lost in the debate over the future of the UK, not least those advocating why it’s not just in Scotland’s best interest for us to remain united.
1) The Acts of Union created one of the most enduring relationships in the history of the world. Why fix something which isn't broken?
2) The impending Scotland Act will make Scotland more accountable for its own public spending
3) Scottish independence could mean the UK's largest trading partner has a different currency entailing greater risk, cost and bureaucracy
4) An independent Scotland would entail a significant loss in HMT revenues from the North Sea!!!!????
5) Scotland’s contribution to Britain’s armed forces is far greater than its population share (the tears)
#
2012-02-05 11:50
1) It is broken. We're going to fix it.
2) Impending independence will make Scotland more accountable for its own public spending.
3) Scottish independence won't mean the UK's largest trading partner has a different currency.
4) Wait, are these supposed to be arguments for the Union?
5) Or arguments for independence?
2) Impending independence will make Scotland more accountable for its own public spending.
3) Scottish independence won't mean the UK's largest trading partner has a different currency.
4) Wait, are these supposed to be arguments for the Union?
5) Or arguments for independence?
#
2012-02-05 12:07
(The London Scottish Conservative Club is a network for Conservatives in London with Scottish roots.) or for those who eat porridge for breakfast with salt.
#
2012-02-05 14:37
"The Acts of Union created one of the most enduring relationships in the history of the world. Why fix something which isn't broken?"
It may have been an enduring relationship when viewed from England through rose tinted glasses but it has not done much for Scotland!
Just one of the bones of contention is how Scottish History was suppressed by the unionists. I have watched at least two documentary programmes recently, one from China and one from Africa where it was stated that a country is nothing if it forgets its history and its cultural traditions.
This is demonstrated througout the countries of Europe and the world time and again.
Any intention to undermine history, traditions and customs of one country by another country is a travesty and a deliberate act of provocation.
It may have been an enduring relationship when viewed from England through rose tinted glasses but it has not done much for Scotland!
Just one of the bones of contention is how Scottish History was suppressed by the unionists. I have watched at least two documentary programmes recently, one from China and one from Africa where it was stated that a country is nothing if it forgets its history and its cultural traditions.
This is demonstrated througout the countries of Europe and the world time and again.
Any intention to undermine history, traditions and customs of one country by another country is a travesty and a deliberate act of provocation.
#
2012-02-05 12:28
O.T.
According to the Daily Record RBS are solely responsible for the recession.
"State-owned RBS – who have been attacked for shelling out huge bonuses as millions suffer in the recession triggered by the bank – are due to unveil £530million pre-tax profits for 2011."
dailyrecord.co.uk/.../...
According to the Daily Record RBS are solely responsible for the recession.
"State-owned RBS – who have been attacked for shelling out huge bonuses as millions suffer in the recession triggered by the bank – are due to unveil £530million pre-tax profits for 2011."
dailyrecord.co.uk/.../...
#
2012-02-05 12:33
Just seen the front page of the Sunday Herald. looks as if it might be an interesting read today. Photo of AS with CENSORED accross his mouth and something about the BBC going back on an agreement.
Also Mr Curran was having a wee 'moment' in Scotland on Sunday. Not sure she has a real grasp on how the system works particularly in relation to the Civil Service. She seems to list every (didproved) accusation against Mr Salmond and the Scottish Government.
Also Mr Curran was having a wee 'moment' in Scotland on Sunday. Not sure she has a real grasp on how the system works particularly in relation to the Civil Service. She seems to list every (didproved) accusation against Mr Salmond and the Scottish Government.
#
2012-02-05 12:44
Finally!! Maybe he was just waiting for incontrovertibl e proof, it appears the Herald has emails regarding the BBC decision to withdraw the invitation:
Salmond said, "I would imagine people like Ric Bailey are in thrall to Downing Street now and that is actually the worrying thing. What this means is that an editorial decision, a journalistic decision on the BBC by the sports editor, has been overridden for political reasons by the political advisers. That's what you get in tin-pot dictatorships. You're not meant to get it in the BBC."
Salmond said, "I would imagine people like Ric Bailey are in thrall to Downing Street now and that is actually the worrying thing. What this means is that an editorial decision, a journalistic decision on the BBC by the sports editor, has been overridden for political reasons by the political advisers. That's what you get in tin-pot dictatorships. You're not meant to get it in the BBC."
#
2012-02-05 12:58
Apparently AS was already going to be presenting Chris Paton with a list of complaints about the BBC and its lack of impartiality. And now the rugby one is added to it.
So this must be the little surprise that some of the folk on here was talking about. Now how would they know that? We must have some people on here who are prominent players for us.
Nice to know. Good on you!!
So this must be the little surprise that some of the folk on here was talking about. Now how would they know that? We must have some people on here who are prominent players for us.
Nice to know. Good on you!!
#
2012-02-05 12:34
** PROGRAMME ON BRUCE ONLY ON IPLAYER UNTIL TODAY 5 FEBRUARY AT 6.59 PM **
bbc.co.uk/.../...
Neil Oliver retraces the expeditions of four Scottish explorers who planted ideas rather than flags - ideas that shaped the modern world we know today. Following in the footsteps of a scientific explorer who has become all but lost to history, Neil charts the remarkable story of William Speirs Bruce, one of Britain's greatest, but least-known, explorers. Bruce set out to conquer Antarctica, not for imperial glory, but to advance scientific knowledge in an era when exploration had become harnessed to national prestige.
Could it be made available on Youtube for future viewing?
bbc.co.uk/.../...
Neil Oliver retraces the expeditions of four Scottish explorers who planted ideas rather than flags - ideas that shaped the modern world we know today. Following in the footsteps of a scientific explorer who has become all but lost to history, Neil charts the remarkable story of William Speirs Bruce, one of Britain's greatest, but least-known, explorers. Bruce set out to conquer Antarctica, not for imperial glory, but to advance scientific knowledge in an era when exploration had become harnessed to national prestige.
Could it be made available on Youtube for future viewing?
#
2012-02-05 13:10
Thanks for your interest Marga - it always interested us as to what exploititive use William Bruce's research may have been put (I think he was interested in mineral reserves and what other natural resources may have lain under the various seas surrounding Antarctica) - yet the man and his team were marginalised in the era of grand adventure gesture rather than serious methodolgy for scientific understanding. McCrone Report anyone?
#
2012-02-05 14:20
The background to this series is that it was shown only to Scottish viewers just a few weeks ago. Now it is being shown on the national network and has been commented in glowing terms in the Sunday Times TV section.
It makes me wonder why, all of a sudden, it was deemed good enough to be shown on the network? Did it have to be tested first and are English made programmes just assumed to be good enough without hesitation? Why the discrimination?
Maybe they had to find out, like David Dimbleby, if it was a subject fit for English consumption.
It makes me wonder why, all of a sudden, it was deemed good enough to be shown on the network? Did it have to be tested first and are English made programmes just assumed to be good enough without hesitation? Why the discrimination?
Maybe they had to find out, like David Dimbleby, if it was a subject fit for English consumption.
#
2012-02-05 16:58
Didn't you see the not-so-subliminal message "four Scottish explorers who planted ideas rather than flags"? It is to be hoped that his personal philosophy is not similarly "sanitised for UK consumption" in the programme.
#
2012-02-05 17:37
One of the more interesting programmes in this series was about an Aberdeen man, Thomas Glover, who again is not so well known, but is credited with taking Japan out of its militaristic era. He was one of the few people allowed into Japan and had the confidence of the Emperor. He is revered in Japan and there is a monument to him in a housng estate in Aberdeen which is rarely visited except by Japanese tourists who seek it out.
#
2012-02-05 12:55
bbc.co.uk/.../...
Motorists spend night in cars, sound familiar. Obviously the English rapid response team was having the weekend off.
I am sure the BBc will demand a scalp for this travesty!...............or?
Motorists spend night in cars, sound familiar. Obviously the English rapid response team was having the weekend off.
I am sure the BBc will demand a scalp for this travesty!...............or?
#
2012-02-05 14:25
It was amusing to see on The Daily Politics a Labour shadow minister, who was being interviewed from Berlin, complaining about how cold it was there. Andrew Neil retorted that it was also very cold in London. I am sure the two didn't really compare in terms of extreme temperatures, but it demonstrates just how used to his comfy, London based existence Andrew Neil has got.
#
2012-02-05 13:14
Just watched the Politics Show and saw an almost by the book performance of how an interview should be conducted. Isobel - ask a question - listen to the whole answer without interruption - highlight some points in the answer, chin the interviewee on any slip ups - ask another question. Now that's how its done. Its been a long time since I've heard any SNP reply on TV without 'ah but, yeh but, no but' piping in after the first sentence.
Even the pundits were, dare I say it, reasonably balanced in their input. More of the same please.
P.S. By the way, loved the way Isobel had resident polls expert Curtice on the ropes over solid independence polling results. LOL
Even the pundits were, dare I say it, reasonably balanced in their input. More of the same please.
P.S. By the way, loved the way Isobel had resident polls expert Curtice on the ropes over solid independence polling results. LOL
#
2012-02-05 14:33
Isobel Fraser really is a rose among weeds as journalists go a real professional.
#
2012-02-05 13:27
I just watched the Politics show on BBC where a LibDem MP was telling us how the 2500 people of the Falkland Islands will be guaranteed self determination.
Apparently a one billion pound destroyer and a nuclear submarine are headed there to protect their right to decide their own constitution future.
It seems odd that his government is doing everything it can to deny the same right to the 5.5 million people of Scotland.
Apparently a one billion pound destroyer and a nuclear submarine are headed there to protect their right to decide their own constitution future.
It seems odd that his government is doing everything it can to deny the same right to the 5.5 million people of Scotland.
#
2012-02-05 13:57
OT - but the rabid right wing English press is really ramping up the independence scare stories. Sunday Express "Scottish (sic) terrorists set to disrupt Jubilee" Story is actually about the continuing IRA, but the attempt to link "Scottish" and "terrorism" is straight out of the Dr Goebbels school of propaganda.
Mail on Sunday - usual tripe about Scotland being vetoed entry to the EU by David Cameron and the "UK" (how this works not explained, as Scotland is already in the EU). Also DC will rebuild Hadrian's Wall to stop immigration from Scotland to England, and generally conduct a vindicative policy towards an independent Scotland to punish us for daring to go our own way.
The general tone of petty vindictiveness and incoherent rage of the English media (largely backed up by their readers who comment on their articles) over the last few weeks because the Scots dare to suggest that we would like to go our own way really should open eyes up here. If you are inclined to vote "No" to independence, just exactly what is it you think you are actually voting FOR? To be emasculated economically and politically and despised and derided as a sweaty sock subsidy junkie?
The UK wants us only for our wealth,to use as they see fit to support their own imperialistic delusions. Other than that, they care not a jot for Scotland or its people.
Mail on Sunday - usual tripe about Scotland being vetoed entry to the EU by David Cameron and the "UK" (how this works not explained, as Scotland is already in the EU). Also DC will rebuild Hadrian's Wall to stop immigration from Scotland to England, and generally conduct a vindicative policy towards an independent Scotland to punish us for daring to go our own way.
The general tone of petty vindictiveness and incoherent rage of the English media (largely backed up by their readers who comment on their articles) over the last few weeks because the Scots dare to suggest that we would like to go our own way really should open eyes up here. If you are inclined to vote "No" to independence, just exactly what is it you think you are actually voting FOR? To be emasculated economically and politically and despised and derided as a sweaty sock subsidy junkie?
The UK wants us only for our wealth,to use as they see fit to support their own imperialistic delusions. Other than that, they care not a jot for Scotland or its people.
#
2012-02-05 14:09
Just what person in Scotland, never mind Scottish person, would willingly leave a Country that looks after its aged, sick and poor, believes that higher education is everyone's birthright and is improving our infrastructure as best they can for a country that charges them for prescriptions, charges their elderly for care and forces them from their family homes to pay for care. Charges them for further education, reduces the benefits of the poor to allow the rich to keep their riches and wants to always have weapons of attack to invade smaller foreign countries. Just as well we have spare space in Scotland for the people who will flood in from England. It is a matter of true fact that the largest number of former foreign peoples now domiciled in Scotland are from England.
And things can only get better when we keep all our own assets and can look after our own affairs.
And things can only get better when we keep all our own assets and can look after our own affairs.
#
2012-02-05 14:11
It had occured to me that the Queen may not be too happy with the way that the Unionists are using lies, to her subjects, and misinformation about what would happen if Scotland got its independence. I know she has to be seen to be non-political, but we have already been told that Prince Chrales has no hesitation about sticking his oar into political matters.
So, does the fact that the BBC, Cameron and the unionists can do so much lying to the people of Scotland mean that the Queen has not made her thoughts known to Cameron's government and by default she actually condons this approach?
Just today we were told about how important the visit to the Irish Republic was to the Queen and to the mending of relations with that country.
These days, it seems, that Her Majesty's Government is going down a similar route to that which led to the troubles in Ireland.
So, does the fact that the BBC, Cameron and the unionists can do so much lying to the people of Scotland mean that the Queen has not made her thoughts known to Cameron's government and by default she actually condons this approach?
Just today we were told about how important the visit to the Irish Republic was to the Queen and to the mending of relations with that country.
These days, it seems, that Her Majesty's Government is going down a similar route to that which led to the troubles in Ireland.
#
2012-02-05 14:36
Quoting J Wil:
Well one thing is for sure and it is this. Her majesty is Queen of England and she is sovereign down there. As such she cannot be sacked unless England becomes a rebublic. (BTW: The stories that the succession will skip a generation are rubbish). However, as the Monarch IS NOT sovereign in Scotland and we Scots are, if we judge the monarch is not doing the job we chose her to do, then we can indeed sack her and choose another. So if Lizzie does not speak up we could well choose that Royal who has supported Scotland, particularly at rugby, in her stead. Now that would be a turn up for the, (history), book. A history book that will record for posterity that the Prime minister on watch who lost Scotland will be David Cameron. How fitting he has a Scottish name.
It had occured to me that the Queen may not be too happy with the way that the Unionists are using lies, to her subjects, and misinformation about what would happen if Scotland got its independence. I know she has to be seen to be non-political, but we have already been told that Prince Chrales has no hesitation about sticking his oar into political matters.
So, does the fact that the BBC, Cameron and the unionists can do so much lying to the people of Scotland mean that the Queen has not made her thoughts known to Cameron's government and by default she actually condons this approach?
Just today we were told about how important the visit to the Irish Republic was to the Queen and to the mending of relations with that country.
These days, it seems, that Her Majesty's Government is going down a similar route to that which led to the troubles in Ireland.
Well one thing is for sure and it is this. Her majesty is Queen of England and she is sovereign down there. As such she cannot be sacked unless England becomes a rebublic. (BTW: The stories that the succession will skip a generation are rubbish). However, as the Monarch IS NOT sovereign in Scotland and we Scots are, if we judge the monarch is not doing the job we chose her to do, then we can indeed sack her and choose another. So if Lizzie does not speak up we could well choose that Royal who has supported Scotland, particularly at rugby, in her stead. Now that would be a turn up for the, (history), book. A history book that will record for posterity that the Prime minister on watch who lost Scotland will be David Cameron. How fitting he has a Scottish name.
#
2012-02-05 17:46
"(BTW: The stories that the succession will skip a generation are rubbish)."
That was confirmed today by John Major on the Andew Marr Show, who said Charles would be the next monarch, and William after him.
That was confirmed today by John Major on the Andew Marr Show, who said Charles would be the next monarch, and William after him.
#
2012-02-05 22:00
The Windsors have always been politically astute. Their creation of Anne and her successors as potiental monarchs in Scotland wasn't accidental.
#
2012-02-05 14:37
Surely the time has long gone when any European country should be laying claim to chunks of the Antarctic. It belongs to nobody and everybody. Scottish companies, like Beardmore's & Wordie's certainly helped finance expeditions but if the penguins need administering the United Nations should take responsibility.
#
2012-02-05 14:40
Quoting cokynutjoe:
There is oil there laddie, and it's ours. After all we are not attempting to invade anyone but we have now legal rights to it.
Surely the time has long gone when any European country should be laying claim to chunks of the Antarctic. It belongs to nobody and everybody. Scottish companies, like Beardmore's & Wordie's certainly helped finance expeditions but if the penguins need administering the United Nations should take responsibility.
There is oil there laddie, and it's ours. After all we are not attempting to invade anyone but we have now legal rights to it.
#
2012-02-05 14:46
Antarctic Treaty does not allow mineral exploitation.
At least I think this is the position at the moment. The Protocol on Environmental Protection prohibits mining and some other stuff. Will read up on it later.
At least I think this is the position at the moment. The Protocol on Environmental Protection prohibits mining and some other stuff. Will read up on it later.
#
2012-02-05 15:07
"There is oil there laddie, and it's ours. After all we are not attempting to invade anyone but we have now legal rights to it."
Bob - In this day and age and considering the kind of country we all want to build I think the last thing we want to be slipping into is becoming a successor colonist type nation.
I don't see anything wrong with us claiming our 8-10% of all existing British Colonial territories AS LONG AS WE ARE PREPARED TO HAND THEM STRAIGHT TO THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF SAID AREAS.
With regards to Antartica the UN would be the best bet, solidarity with all colonized lands, progressive policies for a progressive Scotland!
Bob - In this day and age and considering the kind of country we all want to build I think the last thing we want to be slipping into is becoming a successor colonist type nation.
I don't see anything wrong with us claiming our 8-10% of all existing British Colonial territories AS LONG AS WE ARE PREPARED TO HAND THEM STRAIGHT TO THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF SAID AREAS.
With regards to Antartica the UN would be the best bet, solidarity with all colonized lands, progressive policies for a progressive Scotland!
#
2012-02-05 20:28
"I don't see anything wrong with us claiming our 8-10% of all existing British Colonial territories AS LONG AS WE ARE PREPARED TO HAND THEM STRAIGHT TO THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF SAID AREAS."
You'll soon be getting valentines from the penguins ..
You'll soon be getting valentines from the penguins ..
#
2012-02-06 14:27
FRRREEEEEEEDOM FOR THE PENGUINNNNNS!
Give the ice an' snow back to those who know how tae use it best and whose bums are built for the job of sitting on it withoot piles forming. :0)
Seriously, taking chunks of other countries or continents are for the next door neighbours not us.
Give the ice an' snow back to those who know how tae use it best and whose bums are built for the job of sitting on it withoot piles forming. :0)
Seriously, taking chunks of other countries or continents are for the next door neighbours not us.
#
2012-02-05 14:44
I'm just listening to the Rangers vs Dundee United cup tie. Rangers getting beaten 0 - 2 ATM. The BBC comentaters are so used to the BBC propaganda that we get the usual BBC bias. It is not that United are the best team on the park and have really outplayed Rangers by quite some way. Oh! No! It is, "Rangers who are playing poorly today". The truth is they are only as good as United are allowing them to be,
#
2012-02-05 17:46
Quoting Auld Bob:
You may not know this Bob, but there is an on going battle between Rangers FC and BBC Scotland based in Pacific Quay.
Rangers suffer as much as as the SNP from negative reporting emanating from there.
Any lie they tell about Ranger FC is mirrored in the sly way they report and subvert our doings.
They are very practised at it.
I'm just listening to the Rangers vs Dundee United cup tie. Rangers getting beaten 0 - 2 ATM. The BBC comentaters are so used to the BBC propaganda that we get the usual BBC bias. It is not that United are the best team on the park and have really outplayed Rangers by quite some way. Oh! No! It is, "Rangers who are playing poorly today". The truth is they are only as good as United are allowing them to be,
You may not know this Bob, but there is an on going battle between Rangers FC and BBC Scotland based in Pacific Quay.
Rangers suffer as much as as the SNP from negative reporting emanating from there.
Any lie they tell about Ranger FC is mirrored in the sly way they report and subvert our doings.
They are very practised at it.
#
2012-02-05 18:10
@Briggs
Yes I have noticed that too. BBC Scotland have a twisted, regressive, neanderthal little mentality. In paying my licence fee, I do not expect them to be like that.
Yes I have noticed that too. BBC Scotland have a twisted, regressive, neanderthal little mentality. In paying my licence fee, I do not expect them to be like that.
#
2012-02-05 22:14
Here here. Neanderthals were highly intelligent - they had brains larger than modern humans. So not at all like the BBC news department.
It's deeply insulting to compare Neanderthals to the BBC or Labour politicians. Neanderthals lovingly looked after their elderly. They would never have forced the elderly to pay for their care, and would never had made young Neanderthals pay to learn how to hunt mammoths.
It's deeply insulting to compare Neanderthals to the BBC or Labour politicians. Neanderthals lovingly looked after their elderly. They would never have forced the elderly to pay for their care, and would never had made young Neanderthals pay to learn how to hunt mammoths.
#
2012-02-05 22:32
Difficult to debate language with a distinguished philologist, but I've never been sure about whether it's "here here" or "hear hear".
Might you have been wrong, or right all the time?
Might you have been wrong, or right all the time?
#
2012-02-05 19:21
Interesting to note that in the follow up to last years 'documentary' on the Rangers situation and Craig Whyte, BBC Scotland take every opportunity to back up their claims and reinforce the story at every opportunity.
For the first time ever on the BBC Scotland sports pages we have video of Rangers fans reactions as they leave the ground after today's defeat. Never has this been done before with any team or match played in Scotland. So why now ? Are they truly trying to reflect the situation at the club, or have they actually now crossed the boundary and are making the news themselves.
For the first time ever on the BBC Scotland sports pages we have video of Rangers fans reactions as they leave the ground after today's defeat. Never has this been done before with any team or match played in Scotland. So why now ? Are they truly trying to reflect the situation at the club, or have they actually now crossed the boundary and are making the news themselves.
#
2012-02-05 20:15
"Interesting to note that in the follow up to last years 'documentary' on the Rangers situation and Craig Whyte, BBC Scotland take every opportunity to back up their claims and reinforce the story at every opportunity."
They did exactly the same with the adverse weather fiasco last winter and their manipulation of the story to get the Transport Secretary's resignation was continually justified (in their view), even up until recently.
It is telling that the weather forecasters are now giving flagged adverse weather warnings, using yellow badges and red badges. If that is not an admission that their predictions were seriously flawed last year (also under-reported by the BBC), I don't know what is.
(It was Raymond Buchanan what did it)
They did exactly the same with the adverse weather fiasco last winter and their manipulation of the story to get the Transport Secretary's resignation was continually justified (in their view), even up until recently.
It is telling that the weather forecasters are now giving flagged adverse weather warnings, using yellow badges and red badges. If that is not an admission that their predictions were seriously flawed last year (also under-reported by the BBC), I don't know what is.
(It was Raymond Buchanan what did it)
#
2012-02-05 14:49
Nobody should be extracting oil in the Antarctic, and imperialism went out the window with Suez, so before the Renfrew Ferry is commandeered for a task force, it might be politic for AS to offer Scotland's share to the UN, that would set a few Lords a leaping, not to mention medics on standby with coronary kits!
#
2012-02-05 15:07
Quoting cokynutjoe:
Well it is not too far away from the Falklands and they are drilling for oil and extracting it there.
Nobody should be extracting oil in the Antarctic, and imperialism went out the window with Suez, so before the Renfrew Ferry is commandeered for a task force, it might be politic for AS to offer Scotland's share to the UN, that would set a few Lords a leaping, not to mention medics on standby with coronary kits!
Well it is not too far away from the Falklands and they are drilling for oil and extracting it there.
#
2012-02-05 15:08
It is not the Antarctic that is the main issue as far as oil is concerned it is the Falklands. They are looking for oil around the Falklands which is not covered by any UN treaty as far as mineral (i.e.oil) exploration is concerned.
One reason Westminster may want Antactic taken out of Scotland's responsibility is that it might bring the Falklands situation into play re; Argenrtina's claim to them and rthen that brings the oil into play.
One reason Westminster may want Antactic taken out of Scotland's responsibility is that it might bring the Falklands situation into play re; Argenrtina's claim to them and rthen that brings the oil into play.
#
2012-02-05 15:01
Any discussion on Antarctic should first consider the international Antarctic Treaty.
Unlike the Arctic, the Antarctic is already covered by a comprehensive treaty that basically allows R&D and little else; there are additional protocols that prohibit mining, etc. You'll get the gist from wiki.
If Arctic is difficult for oil & gas, Antarctic is 10x more difficult.
Unlike the Arctic, the Antarctic is already covered by a comprehensive treaty that basically allows R&D and little else; there are additional protocols that prohibit mining, etc. You'll get the gist from wiki.
If Arctic is difficult for oil & gas, Antarctic is 10x more difficult.
#
2012-02-05 15:38
Quoting farrochie:
See thae Emporor Penguins?
See the Scottish People?
We ains ir sovereign - no thae Penguins!
It's oor ile.
;-))
If Arctic is difficult for oil & gas, Antarctic is 10x more difficult.
See thae Emporor Penguins?
See the Scottish People?
We ains ir sovereign - no thae Penguins!
It's oor ile.
;-))
#
2012-02-05 16:00
The Makar To Prosperity.
Far 'yont amang the years to be
When a' we think, an a' we see,
An a' we luve, 's been dung ajee
Bi time's rouch shouther,
An what was richt an wrang for me
Lies mangled throu'ther,
It's possible--it's hardly mair--
That some ane, ripin efter lear--
Some auld professor or young heir,
If still there's aither--
Mey finnd an read me, an be sair
Perplexed, puir brither!
"What tongue dis your auld beukie speak?"
He'll spier; an I, his mou to steek :
"No bein fit to write in Greek,
I wrote in Lallan,
Dear to my hert as the peat reek,
Auld as Tantallon.
"Few spak it than, an noo there's nane.
My puir auld sangs lies a' their lane,
Their sense, that aince was braw an plain,
Tint a'thegither,
Like runes upon a standin stane
Amang the heather.
"But thinkna you the brae to speel;
You, tae, maun chow the bitter peel;
For a' yer lear, for a' yer skeel,
Ye're nane sae lucky;
An things is mebbe waur than weel
For you, my buckie.
"The hale concern (baith hens an eggs,
Baith beuks an writers, stars an clegs)
Noo stachers upon lowsent legs
An weirs awa;
The tack o mankind, near the dregs,
Rins unco law.
"Your beuk, that in some braw new tongue,
Ye wrote or prentit, preached or sung,
Will still be juist a bairn, an young
In fame an years,
Whan the hale planet's guts is dung
Aboot your ears;
"An you, sair gruppin to a spar
Or whammled wi some bleezin star,
Cryin, to ken whaur deil ye are,
Hame, France, or Flanders--
Whang sindry like a railway car
An flees in danders."
Bi R.L. Stevenson
Far 'yont amang the years to be
When a' we think, an a' we see,
An a' we luve, 's been dung ajee
Bi time's rouch shouther,
An what was richt an wrang for me
Lies mangled throu'ther,
It's possible--it's hardly mair--
That some ane, ripin efter lear--
Some auld professor or young heir,
If still there's aither--
Mey finnd an read me, an be sair
Perplexed, puir brither!
"What tongue dis your auld beukie speak?"
He'll spier; an I, his mou to steek :
"No bein fit to write in Greek,
I wrote in Lallan,
Dear to my hert as the peat reek,
Auld as Tantallon.
"Few spak it than, an noo there's nane.
My puir auld sangs lies a' their lane,
Their sense, that aince was braw an plain,
Tint a'thegither,
Like runes upon a standin stane
Amang the heather.
"But thinkna you the brae to speel;
You, tae, maun chow the bitter peel;
For a' yer lear, for a' yer skeel,
Ye're nane sae lucky;
An things is mebbe waur than weel
For you, my buckie.
"The hale concern (baith hens an eggs,
Baith beuks an writers, stars an clegs)
Noo stachers upon lowsent legs
An weirs awa;
The tack o mankind, near the dregs,
Rins unco law.
"Your beuk, that in some braw new tongue,
Ye wrote or prentit, preached or sung,
Will still be juist a bairn, an young
In fame an years,
Whan the hale planet's guts is dung
Aboot your ears;
"An you, sair gruppin to a spar
Or whammled wi some bleezin star,
Cryin, to ken whaur deil ye are,
Hame, France, or Flanders--
Whang sindry like a railway car
An flees in danders."
Bi R.L. Stevenson
#
2012-02-05 17:22
O/T - here's a video (English with catalan sub-titles) in the Catalan press today in which a group of young Scots express their views on Scotland and what it means to them. There's work to do folks"
It accompanies a knocking article on Salmond by Torrance, which I can't access for now, but which generally goes for the "shallow, egotistical, policy-light, two-faced" angle on Salmond, don't think his would have been an authorised biography!
ara.cat/.../...
It accompanies a knocking article on Salmond by Torrance, which I can't access for now, but which generally goes for the "shallow, egotistical, policy-light, two-faced" angle on Salmond, don't think his would have been an authorised biography!
ara.cat/.../...
#
2012-02-05 19:04
Rather dissapointing, but I would love to know how they chose the interviewee's
What was the criteria?
Who chose them?
I suspect it wasnt Ara.Cat
The whole piece was very light and not actually of any substance
A kind of 'Lonely Planet' guide to what Scotland means to Scots
What was the criteria?
Who chose them?
I suspect it wasnt Ara.Cat
The whole piece was very light and not actually of any substance
A kind of 'Lonely Planet' guide to what Scotland means to Scots
#
2012-02-05 23:09
I agree, it was probably the office placement girl who got hold of this, it's just that there's a real appetite for anything about Scotland and independence. Their correspondent in the UK is quite good.
#
2012-02-05 19:07
Some comments, unfortunately my Catalan is non existant,but someone might be able to understand the flow of the comments
ara.cat/.../...
ara.cat/.../...
#
2012-02-05 23:12
Old Smokey, here's what they say:
Rorquin
Interesting, really interesting. I agree with the lad who says it’s vital that somebody asks the question, even if the reply is negative. Having the right to ask questions should be enshrined in our constitutions as part of freedom of expression, because I think that it’s more important than being able to say what you think.
Because really, according to the questions you ask, in a way you’re expressing your opinion, but questions imply the need to listen to others, which I think is what real democracy is about: if you can give your opinion, but nobody listens to you, is that really freedom of expression?
That’s why I’m more in favour of self-determination than independence, because I’m more of a democrat than a nationalist (in fact, I’m both).
Pere the Fearless
Really they’re just English, they’ve even lost their language, but they wear kilts, I mean, it would be as if a Catalan wore a barretina hat and talked Spanish but with a strong sense of ‘clan’. That’s their salvation, in fact if the Catalans had that sense, we’d be independent.
Pere the Fearless
By the way, whatever happens, it’ll be good for Catalonia if Scotland ends up as an independent country, at least it’ll give us some hope.
Sheften
In Scotland, Ireland and Wales (maybe not so much), language as an element of identity is not as important as in Catalonia, and I don’t think it’s that strong in the Basque Country either, if so Bildu and the PNV (both nationalist parties) wouldn’t be like they are.
AraJB
I think (and the documentary corroborates this) that the Catalans are more mature as regards independence than the Scots. Surveys also say this. On the other hand our politicians are not mature, ours are just cowards, they’re happier to be MPs in a tinpot parliament than ministers of an independent state. The Scots have brave politicians and are also better at choosing.
Rorquin
Interesting, really interesting. I agree with the lad who says it’s vital that somebody asks the question, even if the reply is negative. Having the right to ask questions should be enshrined in our constitutions as part of freedom of expression, because I think that it’s more important than being able to say what you think.
Because really, according to the questions you ask, in a way you’re expressing your opinion, but questions imply the need to listen to others, which I think is what real democracy is about: if you can give your opinion, but nobody listens to you, is that really freedom of expression?
That’s why I’m more in favour of self-determination than independence, because I’m more of a democrat than a nationalist (in fact, I’m both).
Pere the Fearless
Really they’re just English, they’ve even lost their language, but they wear kilts, I mean, it would be as if a Catalan wore a barretina hat and talked Spanish but with a strong sense of ‘clan’. That’s their salvation, in fact if the Catalans had that sense, we’d be independent.
Pere the Fearless
By the way, whatever happens, it’ll be good for Catalonia if Scotland ends up as an independent country, at least it’ll give us some hope.
Sheften
In Scotland, Ireland and Wales (maybe not so much), language as an element of identity is not as important as in Catalonia, and I don’t think it’s that strong in the Basque Country either, if so Bildu and the PNV (both nationalist parties) wouldn’t be like they are.
AraJB
I think (and the documentary corroborates this) that the Catalans are more mature as regards independence than the Scots. Surveys also say this. On the other hand our politicians are not mature, ours are just cowards, they’re happier to be MPs in a tinpot parliament than ministers of an independent state. The Scots have brave politicians and are also better at choosing.
#
2012-02-06 02:32
In respect to the claims to rockall I think the fact it is west of Scotland and most of our weather comes from the west any potential environmental impact from oil exploration on the country should be taken into account.
#
2012-02-06 05:07
More importantly - does this mean we can have another penguin or two to go with the pandas?
Looking forward to an independant Scotland enjoying all those fishing and mineral rights in the future. Cheers.
Looking forward to an independant Scotland enjoying all those fishing and mineral rights in the future. Cheers.
#
2012-02-11 11:39
We need to keep hold of anything we have,
no matter how it came about. It may be important somewhere down the line.
Do not give them anything back.
no matter how it came about. It may be important somewhere down the line.
Do not give them anything back.
Donate to Newsnet Scotland
Latest Comments
- How to make and understand the...
We, as independence supporters, need to ... - How to make and understand the...
The statement “The UK is the seventh wea... - A statement by Justice for Meg...
This whole carnival of arcane blackwash ... - A statement by Justice for Meg...
O /T Aplication for audience participati... - Lockerbie: Abdelbaset Al-Megra...
O /T Aplication for audience participati... - A statement by Justice for Meg...
"Now he should take the next step and in... - How to make and understand the...
It's a pity that Gerry appears to be fal... - Labour group in Aberdeen Counc...
O/T but relevant to Labour shennanigans,... - Yes campaign set to launch as ...
I had a man girning to me about the sepe... - How to make and understand the...
Just been on the Ipsos MORI site and the... - A statement by Justice for Meg...
The Truth is going to be very very diffi... - Lockerbie: Abdelbaset Al-Megra...
Scottish Daily Express on line quote by ... - Lockerbie: Abdelbaset Al-Megra...
Anyone doubting the fairness of Megrahi'... - How to make and understand the...
We know that the economic argument is im... - Lockerbie: Abdelbaset Al-Megra...
No doubt this had been said already but ... - How to make and understand the...
the unionist campaign has no vision for ... - Lockerbie: Abdelbaset Al-Megra...
Reading a bitter comment - not the only ... - How to make and understand the...
Slightly O/T but if only we could have a... - Lockerbie: Abdelbaset Al-Megra...
I feel sick, are people really this vind... - How to make and understand the...
Gerry "Some of the lack of empathy and u...