Saturday, 18 February 2012 06:32
104 Comments
By a Newsnet reporter 
The Labour group at Stirling Council has been condemned after a bizarre act of petty defiance left the council gridlocked with no budget and council workers facing the prospect of receiving no wages.
In scenes of farce and incredulity, the Labour councillors at the local authority decided to join forces with the Tory group in order to vote down budget amendments that they themselves had proposed.
SNP Leader of Stirling Council, Graham Houston described Labour’s bizarre move as a night of shame which defied belief.
Councillor Houston said: “I thought I had seen it all from the Labour Party, but last night their incredible antics, allying with the Tories to vote down proposals they themselves had made, simply defy belief.”
Opposition parties had proposed amendments to the SNP’s budget which were accepted by the SNP administration. However, when the vote arrived, instead of supporting their own amendments, the Labour group joined forces with the Tories to block the amended budget being passed.
Accusing Labour of abandoning “the last semblance of principle they had left” Councillor Houston added:
“Labour’s amendment to the SNP’s budget motion sought to change a fraction of the £214 million budget, and as a minority administration, the SNP was prepared to accept this minor amendment in order to deliver a balanced budget for the people of Stirling.
“Incredibly, however, Labour then scrambled to withdraw their amendment and, on being told it was too late, proceeded to vote it down rather than support the SNP.”
According to Mr Houston the budget contained more apprenticeships, a commitment to a living wage for council staff and a council tax freeze - which is Labour party policy in Scotland.
“This was a night of shame for Labour which will live long in the memory. The people of Stirling deserve much, much better than this unholy Labour-Tory alliance.” he said.
Labour hit back claiming that the SNP group had attempted to “steal” Labour’s budget.
Group leader Corrie McChord said: "The SNP attempt to avoid a vote on their budget by stealing Labour's backfired when the SNP's failed to gain the support across the council chamber,"
"The SNP have now accepted Labour's budget is the best for Stirling Council residents but I have consulted my colleagues and we are prepared to consult all political groups to ensure a legal budget is passed within the statutory timescales."
If a council does not set its budget then it cannot pay its workers after the end of the old budget period.
It also prevents any repairs from being carried out and affects the purchasing of services and materials. This can have a knock on effect on third parties such as charities that might provide these services as they cannot plan their budgets if they do not know what the council will be giving them.
The council has until March 11th to set a new budget.
Comments
#
2012-02-18 01:08
Ah, I was hoping you would cover this story...
I couldnt believe this when I read it on the BBC earlier.
It just goes to show that the Labour party are in council wrecking mode so that they can claim the councils are not working for the people come the May elections.
It's backfired for them spectacularly this time!!!
Dont be fooled though...
This isn't opposiion for oppositions sake.
This is a concerted attempt to screw up the services that locals will receive before the election.
I only hope the people of Stirling see right through this!
I couldnt believe this when I read it on the BBC earlier.
It just goes to show that the Labour party are in council wrecking mode so that they can claim the councils are not working for the people come the May elections.
It's backfired for them spectacularly this time!!!
Dont be fooled though...
This isn't opposiion for oppositions sake.
This is a concerted attempt to screw up the services that locals will receive before the election.
I only hope the people of Stirling see right through this!
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2012-02-18 01:34
This article shows up Labour as the biggest bunch of incredulous monkeys on planet earth.
It is bad enough that they voted down the budget, however when we have a councillor such as Corrie McChord saying: "The SNP attempt to avoid a vote on their budget by stealing Labour's backfired when the SNP's failed to gain the support across the council chamber," you really have to question the mentality and intelligence of the Labour group.
This whole episode stinks. Every time we encounter an episode of absolute Labour stupidity we all think it can't get any worse then something like this jumps up shouting "Oh Ye it can!"
It is bad enough that they voted down the budget, however when we have a councillor such as Corrie McChord saying: "The SNP attempt to avoid a vote on their budget by stealing Labour's backfired when the SNP's failed to gain the support across the council chamber," you really have to question the mentality and intelligence of the Labour group.
This whole episode stinks. Every time we encounter an episode of absolute Labour stupidity we all think it can't get any worse then something like this jumps up shouting "Oh Ye it can!"
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2012-02-18 08:48
Too true Arb, watch this space. This tactic will get repeated swiftly followed by shredders tae warp drive around March. They'll screw up as much as they can before they get booted out.
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2012-02-18 03:06
Yep, condemned.
As in cons
As in dems
As in neds
All interchangeable s.
And in England the alternative is Ukip/BNP, at least here there are the Greens and Margo
As in cons
As in dems
As in neds
All interchangeable s.
And in England the alternative is Ukip/BNP, at least here there are the Greens and Margo
#
2012-02-18 08:53
Thanks. I knew was forgetting someone important. Benefits of seniority.
Do you think she could be tempted to come here?
[Comment edited to remove personal detail of another poster.]
Do you think she could be tempted to come here?
[Comment edited to remove personal detail of another poster.]
#
2012-02-18 03:21
Are these Labour councillors the donkeys with red rosettes? Perhaps the labour big man from London will deselect them.
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2012-02-18 03:32
I know patience is a virtue, but this referendum can't come soon enough for me. I'm passed being annoyed and frustrated by the anti-independence parties. Their sheer bloody mindedness and acts of school boy defiance is now becoming evident. It seems to me that London labour, knowing full well that "the games a bogey" has sent out detailed orders to cause as much havoc in Scotland. The picture is emerging of a "slash and burn" policy as they retreat southwards. Their thinking being - If we can't have it, I'm damn sure no one else can. The sooner they are ousted wholesale in the May elections the better.
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2012-02-18 03:38
Or perhaps, they are simply incompetent and small-minded. That seems far more likely than that there is a grand conspiracy.
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2012-02-18 07:58
Perhaps you are right my friend.
I think it can be agreed that their actions currently, show that the elite of the party are on the same ticket as their Tory chums. The working class rank and file have been sold out lock stock and barrel.
I think it can be agreed that their actions currently, show that the elite of the party are on the same ticket as their Tory chums. The working class rank and file have been sold out lock stock and barrel.
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2012-02-18 13:58
2008. Scottish Affairs journal described the Budget process as "John Swinney and Alex Salmond triumphantly outmanoeuvred and humiliated the opposition (with Labour eventually abstaining on their own amendment!)."
Stirling Labour have gone a stage further by actually voting against their own proposals.
Stirling Labour have gone a stage further by actually voting against their own proposals.
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2012-02-18 08:22
Hi oldnat,
Don't know about that. Look at the Labour antics over the SNP's budget in the Scottish parliament in recent years. I certainly see a theme here.
Can't imagine its doing them any good though in the eyes of the electorate, but then Labour don't seem to think that matters so long as they "get one over" on the SNP.
Regards,
Don't know about that. Look at the Labour antics over the SNP's budget in the Scottish parliament in recent years. I certainly see a theme here.
Can't imagine its doing them any good though in the eyes of the electorate, but then Labour don't seem to think that matters so long as they "get one over" on the SNP.
Regards,
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2012-02-18 09:11
Quoting oldnat:
Can't it be an incompetent and small-minded conspiracy?
Or perhaps, they are simply incompetent and small-minded. That seems far more likely than that there is a grand conspiracy.
Can't it be an incompetent and small-minded conspiracy?
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2012-02-18 13:02
You may not to wait too long Keef.
Just look at the local elections in May as being Referendum Part 1.
Referendum Part 2 happens in the Autumn of 2014. :D
Just look at the local elections in May as being Referendum Part 1.
Referendum Part 2 happens in the Autumn of 2014. :D
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2012-02-18 08:55
Labour representatives of all levels are so busy playing at party politics they've either given up or forgotten how to work at governance for people. The petty politics on display over the past few weeks especially, are now a yard stick for Labour practice in Scotland.
Not long now.
Not long now.
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2012-02-18 14:56
Point and game. :D
There was a time when they had a good idea or two but they appeared to implode as soon as they got anywhere. Scarily enough they used to be a party of home rule but gave up when they discovered they couldn't get elected. The ideal lasted only up until they found out Westminster didnae like it. Spooky or wot?
Some things don't change, any policy so long as it delivers for the party.
There was a time when they had a good idea or two but they appeared to implode as soon as they got anywhere. Scarily enough they used to be a party of home rule but gave up when they discovered they couldn't get elected. The ideal lasted only up until they found out Westminster didnae like it. Spooky or wot?
Some things don't change, any policy so long as it delivers for the party.
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2012-02-18 09:43
People who have no means of owning production, who therefore have to sell their Labour, who inturn formed a party to represent their aspirations. It was once called the Labour party.
Not sure what you're on about there Mealer.
Not sure what you're on about there Mealer.
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2012-02-18 09:07
Pro-dependency electeds are normaly a by-product of nepotism, co-optism, re-payment of favours and very privates clubs with strict admission rules.
That plus inter-breeding (methaphoricall y speaking, O'course) is what causes so much braying.
Politically elected are the only positions in which proficiency and intelligence may be a handicap. No qualifications necessary and no examinations are required to be passed.
You just need theright kind of supporters.
That plus inter-breeding (methaphoricall y speaking, O'course) is what causes so much braying.
Politically elected are the only positions in which proficiency and intelligence may be a handicap. No qualifications necessary and no examinations are required to be passed.
You just need the
#
2012-02-18 09:29
Labour keep trying to make the SNP look incompetent, they can't have looked in the mirror lately.
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2012-02-18 09:53
What kind of process takes place in your head to vote with the Tories rather than adopt the best policy for your council.?
If you take office you should be looking for the best deal for those you represent - who get's credit for the policy should not be your primary driver.
From the House of Lords to local councils we have Labour and Tory looking after their respective interests instead of the people of Scotland.
Is this the real benefit of the union - keeping a system of "turns each" in power.
If you take office you should be looking for the best deal for those you represent - who get's credit for the policy should not be your primary driver.
From the House of Lords to local councils we have Labour and Tory looking after their respective interests instead of the people of Scotland.
Is this the real benefit of the union - keeping a system of "turns each" in power.
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2012-02-18 10:28
What do you expect? Since Moses was a boy the Labour party in Scotland has had no real opposition so they didn't need talented politicians. Selection thus became less focused on ability and more on patronage leaving them with a bunch of people with the collective political nous of a not too bright amoeba. Their current and last leaders in Holyrood are prime examples of the best they have.
Then along came the SNP, a party of astoundingly good, capable and intelligent politicians who are, at all levels, on a totally different plane from the Labour placeholders.
Labour are lost, they just lash out blindly because they don't understand negotiation. They used to say do it and it was done because the doers needed to keep in the good books in case they fell off the gravy train.
So what we are seeing is a bunch of talentless, erstwhile bullies lashing out in the only way they know. in Stirling it's voting against their own amendment because the SNP agreed to it, in Glasgow it's veiled threats against a disabled boy, in London it's not so veiled threats against a woman MP.
This is why we are going to be independent, there is no credible opposition to the SNP. The big danger is though that after the party, when things settle down and the current stars begin to shine less brightly, we absolutely must have a set of decent, honest politicians from all parties in Holyrood. History has a habit of repeating itself.
Then along came the SNP, a party of astoundingly good, capable and intelligent politicians who are, at all levels, on a totally different plane from the Labour placeholders.
Labour are lost, they just lash out blindly because they don't understand negotiation. They used to say do it and it was done because the doers needed to keep in the good books in case they fell off the gravy train.
So what we are seeing is a bunch of talentless, erstwhile bullies lashing out in the only way they know. in Stirling it's voting against their own amendment because the SNP agreed to it, in Glasgow it's veiled threats against a disabled boy, in London it's not so veiled threats against a woman MP.
This is why we are going to be independent, there is no credible opposition to the SNP. The big danger is though that after the party, when things settle down and the current stars begin to shine less brightly, we absolutely must have a set of decent, honest politicians from all parties in Holyrood. History has a habit of repeating itself.
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2012-02-18 11:07
Well said, Fungus.
Labour remind me of Daleks; at first you think they are scary and powerful but, before long, you realise that they are a fabrication and that they can't even climb a step.
All that is left is the scary voice, "SNP, exterminate, exterminate..."
Onwards and upwards!
Labour remind me of Daleks; at first you think they are scary and powerful but, before long, you realise that they are a fabrication and that they can't even climb a step.
All that is left is the scary voice, "SNP, exterminate, exterminate..."
Onwards and upwards!
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2012-02-18 10:28
Let's be fair on this one - the BBC is the only media outlet online (other than NNS of course!) covering this story, and they're not exactly spinning it to make Labour look good.
#
2012-02-18 12:29
Quote:
THE BBC is NOT the only media source covering this.
THE Herald has a very full report of this in today's paper containing many of the quotes from Councillor Houston that are contained in this article.
Edinburgh Quine:
The local paper is the Stirling Observer and is published twice per week - Wednesday and Friday. Since the vogte was on Thursday night I should not imagine it will be in Yesterday's edition but is likely to be in Wednesdays.
There are various local free papers such as the Allanwater heralsd but that is published on a Wednesday. Again it may cover it in its next edition.
weegie38 2012-02-18 09:28
Let's be fair on this one - the BBC is the only media outlet online (other than NNS of course!) covering this story, and they're not exactly spinning it to make Labour look good.
THE BBC is NOT the only media source covering this.
THE Herald has a very full report of this in today's paper containing many of the quotes from Councillor Houston that are contained in this article.
Edinburgh Quine:
The local paper is the Stirling Observer and is published twice per week - Wednesday and Friday. Since the vogte was on Thursday night I should not imagine it will be in Yesterday's edition but is likely to be in Wednesdays.
There are various local free papers such as the Allanwater heralsd but that is published on a Wednesday. Again it may cover it in its next edition.
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2012-02-18 15:28
Quoting Legerwood:
Doesn't appear in the online Herald, as far as I can see. If you search on "Stirling council" in Google News, only the BBC story shows.
Like you say, it'll undoubtedly features in the local rags soon.
Quote:weegie38 2012-02-18 09:28
Let's be fair on this one - the BBC is the only media outlet online (other than NNS of course!) covering this story, and they're not exactly spinning it to make Labour look good.
THE BBC is NOT the only media source covering this.
THE Herald has a very full report of this in today's paper containing many of the quotes from Councillor Houston that are contained in this article.
Doesn't appear in the online Herald, as far as I can see. If you search on "Stirling council" in Google News, only the BBC story shows.
Like you say, it'll undoubtedly features in the local rags soon.
#
2012-02-18 17:12
Weegie 38
I get the paper edition fo the Herald on a Saturday and digital edition during the week. After i posted above I went to the on-line edition and like you I noticed it was not there. Strange - clearly knew it would attract a lot of comment so did not put it on or just an oversight?
I get the paper edition fo the Herald on a Saturday and digital edition during the week. After i posted above I went to the on-line edition and like you I noticed it was not there. Strange - clearly knew it would attract a lot of comment so did not put it on or just an oversight?
#
2012-02-18 10:37
I have a theory (more a hope!) that Labour will lose big-time in the May council elections and there will be so much recrimination in the local Labour groups, especially due to London’s interference in the candidate selection process, that the party in Scotland will implode.
This will lead to the formation of a ‘new’ (note, not ‘Nu’) Labour party in Scotland that will have finally seen the writing on the wall and subsequently declare its support for independence.
That’ll be game, set and match for a free Scotland.
This will lead to the formation of a ‘new’ (note, not ‘Nu’) Labour party in Scotland that will have finally seen the writing on the wall and subsequently declare its support for independence.
That’ll be game, set and match for a free Scotland.
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2012-02-18 11:08
TB I've been thinking (and praying) along the same lines myself, and I'm really starting to believe it will happen, however I also think we will see a lot more dirty tactics and sheer stupidity (whilst amusing to watch can also be harming) from them before hand.
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2012-02-18 11:09
I think if everyone who reads this joins hands and thinks that good thought, it will be so.... So come on everybody. THINK!
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2012-02-18 11:24
Absolutely, we can all become Agent provocateurs to ensure the impending doom of an ultra-elitist Labour party that Margaret Thatcher claimed was her greatest achievement. Nay, we are duty bound to oversee the demise of the shame-filled Irakistan atrocity Party.
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2012-02-18 13:18
TB, I think the formation of a "new" Labour party has already started.
I think I read earlier in the week that the (now) ex-Labour party members in Glasgow City Council have begun the process of launching a new party.
Here's the link.
bbc.co.uk/.../...
I think it is so they can stand for Glasgow council elections in May. If they find there are more, a lot more, disillusioned Labour Party members then after May this new party may very well change its name.
I think I read earlier in the week that the (now) ex-Labour party members in Glasgow City Council have begun the process of launching a new party.
Here's the link.
bbc.co.uk/.../...
I think it is so they can stand for Glasgow council elections in May. If they find there are more, a lot more, disillusioned Labour Party members then after May this new party may very well change its name.
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2012-02-18 11:02
The supine MSM will never tackle Johann Lamentable on Glasgow Stirling or any other local difficulty Labour have or not publishing the number of individual members they have excluding Social Club members.
Hundreds of new SNP members since Cameron's visit to North Britain.
Hundreds of new SNP members since Cameron's visit to North Britain.
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2012-02-18 11:05
This is just a re-run of the Scottish parliament 2010/11 budget on a smaller scale, where Labour asked for an amendment to the budget, were given the concession, then voted against their own amendment.
It's very obvious that logic does not come into the equation where Labour are concerned. They are indulging in petty Party politics that are aimed at thwarting the SNP at the expense of the people. They have showed yet again that the needs of the people come secondary to those of the Labour Party. I've seen it in the town I live in, where the Labour party chose to deprive the community rather than let the SNP take credit for something.
It's very obvious that logic does not come into the equation where Labour are concerned. They are indulging in petty Party politics that are aimed at thwarting the SNP at the expense of the people. They have showed yet again that the needs of the people come secondary to those of the Labour Party. I've seen it in the town I live in, where the Labour party chose to deprive the community rather than let the SNP take credit for something.
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2012-02-18 11:17
"This is just a re-run of the Scottish parliament 2010/11 budget on a smaller scale, where Labour asked for an amendment to the budget, were given the concession, then voted against their own amendment."
And look what happened to them at the next election following that little stunt. History has a way of repeating itself, and it will do in May. I have no doubts. You'd think that by now they'd get over their arrogance and learn from past mistakes but apparently not.
And look what happened to them at the next election following that little stunt. History has a way of repeating itself, and it will do in May. I have no doubts. You'd think that by now they'd get over their arrogance and learn from past mistakes but apparently not.
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2012-02-18 11:34
Quoting Fortitudine:
Hahahaha Especially after Mr Murphy and what's-her-name (BOYACK required a google)held many publicised lengthy inquiries promising to learn lessons from the 2011 election. The only lesson learned appears to be "We need more postal votes and disappeared registers"!
You'd think that by now they'd get over their arrogance and learn from past mistakes but apparently not.
Hahahaha Especially after Mr Murphy and what's-her-name (BOYACK required a google)held many publicised lengthy inquiries promising to learn lessons from the 2011 election. The only lesson learned appears to be "We need more postal votes and disappeared registers"!
#
2012-02-18 13:29
The main problem that Labour have Jimbo is that they have never got over the Holyrood elections of 2007.
Labour are a party that walk about with the air of expectation.
1) I have registered as a Labour candidate.
2) My name is on the election paper
3) This seat has always been Labour controlled
4) It is your duty to vote for me
5) You are not permitted to vote for anyone else
6) If you vote for any one else I may not get in
7) It is your duty as a humble voter to do the right thing and vote for me
8)If you do not vote for me then strange things will happen
9) I need your vote to ensure I have a job, no vote no job, I can't do anything else. I need to be a councillor/MSP/MP in order that Ed Millipede can tell me what to do and how to vote.
10) PLEASE, I'm begging you don't put me out in the street to look for a real job. That will just kill me!
Unfortunately Labour don't do LOSING very well.
They didn't do it very well in 2007.
They didn't do it very well in 2010.
They didn't do it very well in 2011.
So don't expect them to do it too well in 2012.
I think I'm right in saying that Labour WERE in control of Stirling Council until the beginning of this year. They were kicked out by a vote of no confidence I think.
Says it all really!
Labour are a party that walk about with the air of expectation.
1) I have registered as a Labour candidate.
2) My name is on the election paper
3) This seat has always been Labour controlled
4) It is your duty to vote for me
5) You are not permitted to vote for anyone else
6) If you vote for any one else I may not get in
7) It is your duty as a humble voter to do the right thing and vote for me
8)If you do not vote for me then strange things will happen
9) I need your vote to ensure I have a job, no vote no job, I can't do anything else. I need to be a councillor/MSP/MP in order that Ed Millipede can tell me what to do and how to vote.
10) PLEASE, I'm begging you don't put me out in the street to look for a real job. That will just kill me!
Unfortunately Labour don't do LOSING very well.
They didn't do it very well in 2007.
They didn't do it very well in 2010.
They didn't do it very well in 2011.
So don't expect them to do it too well in 2012.
I think I'm right in saying that Labour WERE in control of Stirling Council until the beginning of this year. They were kicked out by a vote of no confidence I think.
Says it all really!
#
2012-02-18 11:39
OT. Let us all be well aware of vote rigging and election fraud come the referendum...
The US elections are being rigged to prevent Ron Paul from winning. Romney did not win Maine last week... www.youtube.com/.../
www.youtube.com/.../
More Caucuses in Maine being held today and Ron Paul is certain to trounce Romney (unless more rigging takes place)
Ron Paul visited Washington State yesterday... Incredible Support (Romney cant even fill a hall)... www.youtube.com/.../ (nice bagpipes too :)
[The venue held 1000, 2000 were left outside]
The US elections are being rigged to prevent Ron Paul from winning. Romney did not win Maine last week... www.youtube.com/.../
www.youtube.com/.../
More Caucuses in Maine being held today and Ron Paul is certain to trounce Romney (unless more rigging takes place)
Ron Paul visited Washington State yesterday... Incredible Support (Romney cant even fill a hall)... www.youtube.com/.../ (nice bagpipes too :)
[The venue held 1000, 2000 were left outside]
#
2012-02-18 13:12
[quote US elections are being rigged to prevent Ron Paul from winning. Romney did not win Maine last week... /quote]
"Hanging chad". time again ?
"Hanging chad". time again ?
#
2012-02-18 22:37
It's always dangerous to accept partisan versions of what is happening in another country's electoral system.
The Republican Party set a deadline for caucuses in Maine to meet and send in their results. Local organisers in a number of counties decided to wait until after that date, when the result would be announced, before caucussing. That would allow them to gets lots of their preferred candidate's supporters along to "overturn" the result.
Now if your argument was that the Republican Party wasn't fit enough to organise an alcohol fuelled party in an establishment manufacturing alcoholic beverages, then I'd agree with you.
The Republican Party set a deadline for caucuses in Maine to meet and send in their results. Local organisers in a number of counties decided to wait until after that date, when the result would be announced, before caucussing. That would allow them to gets lots of their preferred candidate's supporters along to "overturn" the result.
Now if your argument was that the Republican Party wasn't fit enough to organise an alcohol fuelled party in an establishment manufacturing alcoholic beverages, then I'd agree with you.
#
2012-02-19 02:31
No Old Nat, you are out of your comfort zone with this one I am afraid.
Firstly, I am not simply accepting 'partisan versions of what is happening in another country'... many folk on here will know I have been following the GOP Elections intently. I stay updated daily... I even have my 'Ron Paul rLOVEution' T-shirt on as I type this. You underestimate me sir.
Secondly, you are completely mis-informed regarding your accusation that the GOP wanted to get 'lots of their preferred candidates supporters along'... wow! Believe me, the GOP do not have a bias for Ron Paul... That is like saying the BBC are biased towards the SNP!!!
I Just ask you to have a little respect Oldnat mate, for a collegue who is a fair bit knowledgeable about this topic.
Firstly, I am not simply accepting 'partisan versions of what is happening in another country'... many folk on here will know I have been following the GOP Elections intently. I stay updated daily... I even have my 'Ron Paul rLOVEution' T-shirt on as I type this. You underestimate me sir.
Secondly, you are completely mis-informed regarding your accusation that the GOP wanted to get 'lots of their preferred candidates supporters along'... wow! Believe me, the GOP do not have a bias for Ron Paul... That is like saying the BBC are biased towards the SNP!!!
I Just ask you to have a little respect Oldnat mate, for a collegue who is a fair bit knowledgeable about this topic.
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2012-02-19 02:52
I didn't say that the "GOP wanted to get 'lots of their preferred candidates supporters along", but that some local GOP organisers chose not to comply with the rulings of the State Republican Party's rulings on the organisation of the caucus procedures. Admittedly, my presumption that they were doing so for the benefit of their preferred candidate was precisely that.
That anyone could present the Republican's procedures as in any way democratic, could only be argued by someone who imagines James Wilkie was democratically chosen. Ooops! That belongs on a different thread. :-)
Having more family in the USA than in Scotland, I also follow their politics regularly.
That anyone could present the Republican's procedures as in any way democratic, could only be argued by someone who imagines James Wilkie was democratically chosen. Ooops! That belongs on a different thread. :-)
Having more family in the USA than in Scotland, I also follow their politics regularly.
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2012-02-19 04:35
OK, I misunderstood your post.
I do detect a pro-democrat tone to your post however? (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)
If so, you should watch this talk... www.youtube.com/.../
I responded to Skip below on the issue of the left-right paradigm. It is also relevant to the Labour/Tory 2 party system in the UK... I am pretty sure that is why the MSM attack both the SNP and Ron Paul with equal fervour... they attack the anti-establishment.
I do detect a pro-democrat tone to your post however? (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)
If so, you should watch this talk... www.youtube.com/.../
I responded to Skip below on the issue of the left-right paradigm. It is also relevant to the Labour/Tory 2 party system in the UK... I am pretty sure that is why the MSM attack both the SNP and Ron Paul with equal fervour... they attack the anti-establishment.
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2012-02-18 12:19
Everybody knows Ron Paul won the State of Maine... It makes a mockery of the US promoting democracy around the world does it not?
www.youtube.com/.../
www.youtube.com/.../
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2012-02-18 20:33
Quoting Alba4Eva:
Well yeah they have a Republic not a Democracy. =o)
They also dont do Irony in the USA according to pop culture.
Everybody knows Ron Paul won the State of Maine... It makes a mockery of the US promoting democracy around the world does it not?
Well yeah they have a Republic not a Democracy. =o)
They also dont do Irony in the USA according to pop culture.
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2012-02-18 20:43
Greetings from Raleigh, North Carolina.
Alba4Eva, please bear in mind that, in many states, including Maine, primaries and caucuses are non-binding. Heck, Washington state even has both a primary and a caucus. The caucus isn't binding and there is disagreement over whether the primary is. So it is not necessarily the "votes" that you supposedly gain on Primary Night that matters, but the momentum (or lack thereof) that comes from doing better (or worse) than expected. In short, primaries and caucuses are beauty contests rather than a traditional election.
The fact is that Ron Paul is not getting the nomination. He is too toxic for the party establishment's liking. The establishment wants Romney (in the same way that the Dem establishment wanted Hilary Clinton in 2008) but they may have to accept Santorum if that is the sense they get from the base.
For instance, in 2008, numerous super-delegates switched from Clinton to Obama because Obama was perceived to have momentum, even though Clinton arguably had more votes (however established) than Obama until the last few weeks of the season.
Really, the primary/caucus system is merely a rather public display of what went on behind closed doors at candidate selection meetings in Scotland in the 1980's.
Alba4Eva, please bear in mind that, in many states, including Maine, primaries and caucuses are non-binding. Heck, Washington state even has both a primary and a caucus. The caucus isn't binding and there is disagreement over whether the primary is. So it is not necessarily the "votes" that you supposedly gain on Primary Night that matters, but the momentum (or lack thereof) that comes from doing better (or worse) than expected. In short, primaries and caucuses are beauty contests rather than a traditional election.
The fact is that Ron Paul is not getting the nomination. He is too toxic for the party establishment's liking. The establishment wants Romney (in the same way that the Dem establishment wanted Hilary Clinton in 2008) but they may have to accept Santorum if that is the sense they get from the base.
For instance, in 2008, numerous super-delegates switched from Clinton to Obama because Obama was perceived to have momentum, even though Clinton arguably had more votes (however established) than Obama until the last few weeks of the season.
Really, the primary/caucus system is merely a rather public display of what went on behind closed doors at candidate selection meetings in Scotland in the 1980's.
#
2012-02-19 02:41
Hi Skip :)
I am fully aware that it is a beauty contest and that despite the result, it is likely that Ron Paul got (or will get) all the delegates. *;0) www.youtube.com/.../
But like you say, the perception of momentum is important and the MSM appear to have robbed Ron Paul last week, in favour of the establishment Romney.
Rigging elections is still evil and should not be excused by arguing that the particular election was not very important... democracy is VERY important! ...ALWAYS!!!
Ps. The left-right paradigm is a lie, Goldman Sachs fund both Romney and Obama equally. You are not voting for change if you vote for the establishment... you are voting for the status quo! ... www.youtube.com/.../
The SNP in Scotland are villified by the MSM for that very reason, they are anti-establishment... Just like Ron Paul.
I am fully aware that it is a beauty contest and that despite the result, it is likely that Ron Paul got (or will get) all the delegates. *;0) www.youtube.com/.../
But like you say, the perception of momentum is important and the MSM appear to have robbed Ron Paul last week, in favour of the establishment Romney.
Rigging elections is still evil and should not be excused by arguing that the particular election was not very important... democracy is VERY important! ...ALWAYS!!!
Ps. The left-right paradigm is a lie, Goldman Sachs fund both Romney and Obama equally. You are not voting for change if you vote for the establishment... you are voting for the status quo! ... www.youtube.com/.../
The SNP in Scotland are villified by the MSM for that very reason, they are anti-establishment... Just like Ron Paul.
#
2012-02-19 19:10
Och, yes, anyone who has more brain cells than the CIA allotted him knows that there is one ruling class in the USA and they take it turn about to hold office.
I am going to have great fun in the NC primary. As an unaffiliated voter, I get to choose which primary to vote in. I could have lots of fun on my way into the polling station with candidates from both sides begging for my vote. There will, by my count, be up to 19 partisan races on the Republican ballot and 18 on the Democratic, so there is plenty to choose from.
As for Ron Paul, he is gaining momentum from the same source as Barack Obama in 2008. He attracts those who are young and idealistic and he attracts those of us who are old and cynical, yet still hopeful of a better tomorrow. I may yet vote for him if I take the Republican ballot.
It is true that the SNP gets a hard time from many in the MSM but, from across the Pond, I sense that the tide has turned. Witness Alistair Darling offering jam tomorrow just this morning. You are 2 1/2 years from a vote and the British Unionists have conceded the argument. Stay the course, convince the waverers and independence will be yours (I so dearly wish I could say "Ours" - maybe one day)
I am going to have great fun in the NC primary. As an unaffiliated voter, I get to choose which primary to vote in. I could have lots of fun on my way into the polling station with candidates from both sides begging for my vote. There will, by my count, be up to 19 partisan races on the Republican ballot and 18 on the Democratic, so there is plenty to choose from.
As for Ron Paul, he is gaining momentum from the same source as Barack Obama in 2008. He attracts those who are young and idealistic and he attracts those of us who are old and cynical, yet still hopeful of a better tomorrow. I may yet vote for him if I take the Republican ballot.
It is true that the SNP gets a hard time from many in the MSM but, from across the Pond, I sense that the tide has turned. Witness Alistair Darling offering jam tomorrow just this morning. You are 2 1/2 years from a vote and the British Unionists have conceded the argument. Stay the course, convince the waverers and independence will be yours (I so dearly wish I could say "Ours" - maybe one day)
#
2012-02-18 13:04
Quoting Early Ball:
Indeed and concurred. The other tale on the link terrifies me greater, when I recall that it is still Labour's policy to introduce the self-same apartheid style Pass-cards where it would be illegal to refuse to produce an ID when requested by a police officer and that refusal constitutes legitimate fear for the safety of the officer and/or the public. British Police shootings, recently legalised by David Cameron, would be seen as the best course of action for "Public Safety"? HORRIFIC Brave-new-world.
Send in the UN.
Thanks for that link Alba. Astonishing.
Indeed and concurred. The other tale on the link terrifies me greater, when I recall that it is still Labour's policy to introduce the self-same apartheid style Pass-cards where it would be illegal to refuse to produce an ID when requested by a police officer and that refusal constitutes legitimate fear for the safety of the officer and/or the public. British Police shootings, recently legalised by David Cameron, would be seen as the best course of action for "Public Safety"? HORRIFIC Brave-new-world.
#
2012-02-18 12:01
Hello everybody. I,m new to the site so until I get the hang of it i,ll be brief. Although I,ve been convinced of the nationalist cause for a while, it,s the continuing bias of the M.S.M that sickens me, though as has been said, at least the B.B.C have reported the Stirling Council fiasco. Keep up the good work, N.N.S.
#
2012-02-18 12:31
Welcome.
As I posted above the BBC is not the only one covering this story. it was covered in today's Herald.
As I posted above the BBC is not the only one covering this story. it was covered in today's Herald.
#
2012-02-18 13:16
Quoting alexb:
BBC Radio4 today, "BEYOND WESTMINSTER" also covered strong Scottish envy from the north of England where the interviewed leader claims "Scotland's successes, prosperity, renewed confidence and business attraction would ensure a yes vote if the North of England ever gets another opportunity to vote for a devolved assembly". The interview claims the North of England feels very aggrieved at being misled by claims of "Too Small and Too Poor".
Unfortunately it is not (yet?) available on iPlayer or Listen again?
bbc.co.uk/.../...
Hello everybody. I,m new to the site so until I get the hang of it i,ll be brief. Although I,ve been convinced of the nationalist cause for a while, it,s the continuing bias of the M.S.M that sickens me, though as has been said, at least the B.B.C have reported the Stirling Council fiasco. Keep up the good work, N.N.S.
BBC Radio4 today, "BEYOND WESTMINSTER" also covered strong Scottish envy from the north of England where the interviewed leader claims "Scotland's successes, prosperity, renewed confidence and business attraction would ensure a yes vote if the North of England ever gets another opportunity to vote for a devolved assembly". The interview claims the North of England feels very aggrieved at being misled by claims of "Too Small and Too Poor".
Unfortunately it is not (yet?) available on iPlayer or Listen again?
bbc.co.uk/.../...
#
2012-02-18 13:35
Welcome to NNS alexb.
You'll find NNS a good site to get down to the truth about all the major stories political and otherwise. In fact you'll even read about some things going on that the biased media and British Brainwashing Committee (BBC) don't want the electorate to know about.
Hell you might even get the "occasional" laugh on this site. :D
You'll find NNS a good site to get down to the truth about all the major stories political and otherwise. In fact you'll even read about some things going on that the biased media and British Brainwashing Committee (BBC) don't want the electorate to know about.
Hell you might even get the "occasional" laugh on this site. :D
#
2012-02-18 12:02
I wish I could say I was surprised by this but I'm afraid I can't.
For me the nastiness and petty mindedness of Labour, particularly at council level is perhaps best illustrated by the following sorry episode.
A few years back when Renfrwshire council was still under Labour control, numerous attempt were made by the Renfrewshire and Inverclyde Association of Burns Clubs to have the statue of Burns in Paisley moved to a more suitable location. Naturally Labour couldn't pass on an opportunity to display their complete contempt for Scotland and it's culture and for the most part refused to even hear the Burns club's case. However what is even more damning is that the, then Labour Provost freely admitted to the Burns Associations representitive that 'if any rival group within the council raised any question then the Labour group would automatically vote it down.'
Think about that, any question would be voted down, regardless of merit or the interests of the local community. They simply aren't fit to hold any position of responsibility with a mentality like that.
You can read more about the above here
tinyurl.com/8y3ccbd
For me the nastiness and petty mindedness of Labour, particularly at council level is perhaps best illustrated by the following sorry episode.
A few years back when Renfrwshire council was still under Labour control, numerous attempt were made by the Renfrewshire and Inverclyde Association of Burns Clubs to have the statue of Burns in Paisley moved to a more suitable location. Naturally Labour couldn't pass on an opportunity to display their complete contempt for Scotland and it's culture and for the most part refused to even hear the Burns club's case. However what is even more damning is that the, then Labour Provost freely admitted to the Burns Associations representitive that 'if any rival group within the council raised any question then the Labour group would automatically vote it down.'
Think about that, any question would be voted down, regardless of merit or the interests of the local community. They simply aren't fit to hold any position of responsibility with a mentality like that.
You can read more about the above here
tinyurl.com/8y3ccbd
#
2012-02-18 12:02
Dear Blubber
There are now many unanswered questions over David Cameron's increased devolution suggestion.
Questions like
Will he rule out entering the Euro ?
What will the economic growth rate be in 5 years time ?
Will he guarantee to end boom and bust ?
Will he continue to allow CofE bishops to vote on matters affecting Scotland ?
Will he promise Trident on the Clyde ?
Will there be any Scottish regiments in 10 years time ?
Will those troops still be able to die for Britain in illegal wars?
How many working aircraft carriers will Britain have ?
Will we continue to have defence allegiances with other European countries ?
Will my brother in Australia still be my brother or do I have to swap him for someone in Surrey ?
This uncertainty is hindering debate and Cameron cannot be allowed to duck and dive as he has done so far.
People need to know what the terms of membership of this club will be.
Are you and your chums up to getting this information as part of your public service duty ?
There are now many unanswered questions over David Cameron's increased devolution suggestion.
Questions like
Will he rule out entering the Euro ?
What will the economic growth rate be in 5 years time ?
Will he guarantee to end boom and bust ?
Will he continue to allow CofE bishops to vote on matters affecting Scotland ?
Will he promise Trident on the Clyde ?
Will there be any Scottish regiments in 10 years time ?
Will those troops still be able to die for Britain in illegal wars?
How many working aircraft carriers will Britain have ?
Will we continue to have defence allegiances with other European countries ?
Will my brother in Australia still be my brother or do I have to swap him for someone in Surrey ?
This uncertainty is hindering debate and Cameron cannot be allowed to duck and dive as he has done so far.
People need to know what the terms of membership of this club will be.
Are you and your chums up to getting this information as part of your public service duty ?
#
2012-02-18 12:21
Dear Govan
The answer to all your question can be had from the link provided below
If the Scots do not have the courage of their convictions (excluding the HoLs convictions) you will deserve all the bile that will fall on your collective heads
This will be your future your childrens future and further till time immemorial
Be afraid very afraid
mirror.co.uk/.../...
Regards the flub
ps I will be ok as one of the establishment That is why I do my best to thwart your aspirations
The answer to all your question can be had from the link provided below
If the Scots do not have the courage of their convictions (excluding the HoLs convictions) you will deserve all the bile that will fall on your collective heads
This will be your future your childrens future and further till time immemorial
Be afraid very afraid
mirror.co.uk/.../...
Regards the flub
ps I will be ok as one of the establishment That is why I do my best to thwart your aspirations
#
2012-02-18 12:35
They seem to be copying the US approach to the homeless. If you did not see Panoram earlier this week then it is worth watching it on iPlayer.
The programme covered subject of poverty in the US. At one point they visited one of the tented cities that have grown up in various places. believe iot or not but the homeless shelters in the nearby city - Detroit I think - sent people there when the shelter was full!
The programme covered subject of poverty in the US. At one point they visited one of the tented cities that have grown up in various places. believe iot or not but the homeless shelters in the nearby city - Detroit I think - sent people there when the shelter was full!
#
2012-02-18 12:08
facebook.com/.../...
the truth is out there, or at least it is beginning to be heard
thanks guys, the cross is lit and beginning to make its round
the truth is out there, or at least it is beginning to be heard
thanks guys, the cross is lit and beginning to make its round
#
2012-02-18 12:53
The most important thing is, what happens now?
Do the folk in Stirling go without services and their council workers without jobs?
We can scoff at the stupidity of Labour in Stirling, but it's the people that count.
Will there be more meetings of the council where the SNP will attempt to pass their Budget?
Do the folk in Stirling go without services and their council workers without jobs?
We can scoff at the stupidity of Labour in Stirling, but it's the people that count.
Will there be more meetings of the council where the SNP will attempt to pass their Budget?
#
2012-02-18 14:57
Yes there will be more meetings and I assume that a lot of horse-trading and discussions are taking place behind the scenes at this moment. They have until march 11 to pass a budget but I should imagine they will want to get it through before then.
#
2012-02-18 13:49
Oh Dearie me.
Some one out there does NOT like the British Brainwashing Committee very much methinks. :D
Some one out there does NOT like the British Brainwashing Committee very much methinks. :D
#
2012-02-18 12:55
O/T but Iceland's credit rating has been upgraded. Full story is here along with the full report from Fitch who have upgraded them:
blogs.telegraph.co.uk/.../...
Iceland's growth rate will make George Osborne weep.
blogs.telegraph.co.uk/.../...
Iceland's growth rate will make George Osborne weep.
#
2012-02-18 13:16
Quoting Old Smokey:
Ozzie or David ? Probably both.
also
reuters.com/.../...
and://www.montrealgazette .com/news/Iceland+credit+ raised+investme nt+grade/6170186/story.html
Oh dear that will puzzle Osborne
Ozzie or David ? Probably both.
#
2012-02-18 13:35
Sorry I did not look at the post so did not realise my link had not worked. Sorted it now. From your posts it seems to be getting widespread coverage.
#
2012-02-18 13:19
Has everyone noticed the "feeling of euphoria" and the confidence building up among SNP supporters in the lead up to the council elections. I don't want to be over-optimistic but ...
#
2012-02-18 13:38
Correct..it's ok to put down opposite views but the real and positive strategy is to convince these middle of the road people that independence is the way forward and best for our nation of Scotland. Roll on 2014 or sooner.
#
2012-02-18 14:04
The council map of Scotland is going to turn yellow, the same as the parliamentary map.
#
2012-02-18 15:58
I sincerely hope so fynesider!
It is my dearest wish that the people of Scotland send the londonite parties another message that the rule of Scotland by london is over.
Those days are done.
It is my dearest wish that the people of Scotland send the londonite parties another message that the rule of Scotland by london is over.
Those days are done.
#
2012-02-18 13:55
Labour representatives , really don't care about the people they represent. This is an act of party politics and I think London Labour are a disgrace for enacting a scorched earth policy on the people of Stirling. It can't be anything else as afterall Labour are run from London.
#
2012-02-18 14:18
OT
Yougov Lab thing on Scottish indy, 2 days to complete it, they actually give a surprising amount of room for you to have a good rant and to compare Cameron and Salmond, it's quite fun really
labs.yougov.co.uk/.../...
hope the link works
Yougov Lab thing on Scottish indy, 2 days to complete it, they actually give a surprising amount of room for you to have a good rant and to compare Cameron and Salmond, it's quite fun really
labs.yougov.co.uk/.../...
hope the link works
#
2012-02-18 16:25
Link works ok, but something funny going on as I cant get to the survey
Perhaps its very busy
Get the following when clicking to take survey :
Sorry for the inconvenience
This survey is unavailable at the moment
Perhaps its very busy
Get the following when clicking to take survey :
Sorry for the inconvenience
This survey is unavailable at the moment
#
2012-02-18 15:15
Labour and Tories hand in hand. Take note, Scotland. These terrible two are natural allies as they have gradually become more and more like each other over time.
#
2012-02-18 16:14
I was speaking to a local Labour party official recently, and he 'sort of' admitted to me that 'Scottish' Labour would be better off focusing some thought on their place in an independent Scotland, than defending the union too much. His fear was that if independence was to happen, Labour would suffer a backlash in the following Scottish elections for being on the 'wrong' side.
I found it quite enlightening that he was even thinking this way.
Onwards and upwards.
I found it quite enlightening that he was even thinking this way.
Onwards and upwards.
#
2012-02-18 16:23
It is my dearest wish that the people of Scotland send the londonite parties another message that the rule of Scotland by london is over.
Those days are done
Here Here X_Sticks. The May elections are vital in that it solidifies the message to the Unionist parties that the Scottish electorate are rejecting them enmasse. Then for kicks, let us watch the meltdown of Unionism in Scotland!
On topic, wish i could say im surprised, bitter experience dictates otherwise. The truth is the Labour party is the Tories little helpers when it comes to the choice of standing against the people of their own country. This is the latest evidence of that in motion. Wait for the encore of sharing the same stage as the Tories in them opting for London Tory rule over Scotland running its own affairs. Electoral suicide i'd say.
Those days are done
Here Here X_Sticks. The May elections are vital in that it solidifies the message to the Unionist parties that the Scottish electorate are rejecting them enmasse. Then for kicks, let us watch the meltdown of Unionism in Scotland!
On topic, wish i could say im surprised, bitter experience dictates otherwise. The truth is the Labour party is the Tories little helpers when it comes to the choice of standing against the people of their own country. This is the latest evidence of that in motion. Wait for the encore of sharing the same stage as the Tories in them opting for London Tory rule over Scotland running its own affairs. Electoral suicide i'd say.
#
2012-02-18 17:17
O/T but telling - the Catalan parliament voted a motion in solidarity with Scottish independence last week - of the chamber, only the conservatives and hangers on voted against, and the socialists, of course, abstained.
It's really funny how the "inter - nationalist" socialists can disregard the struggle of a stateless nation - "inter" which "nations" do they position themselves, pray?
We'll all laugh when the surviving but hollowed-states in Europe end up ceding sovereignty to Brussels, leaving only the "nations" intact and functional. Roll on the day!
It's really funny how the "inter - nationalist" socialists can disregard the struggle of a stateless nation - "inter" which "nations" do they position themselves, pray?
We'll all laugh when the surviving but hollowed-states in Europe end up ceding sovereignty to Brussels, leaving only the "nations" intact and functional. Roll on the day!
#
2012-02-18 17:26
Very intersting Marga.
What ever happened to 'international' socialism?
Does it always follow the party line of whatever state it finds itself in?
What ever happened to 'international' socialism?
Does it always follow the party line of whatever state it finds itself in?
#
2012-02-18 18:15
labour have sunk to a new low, they need to stop playing stupid little games and get on with serving the people that pay their wages. i am sure the budget will be passed "In the nick of time", its time Johann Lamont, got her party into shape at all levels, including herself.
for more on current affairs read my blog at
www.ramblingally.blogspot.com
for more on current affairs read my blog at
www.ramblingally.blogspot.com
#
2012-02-18 22:19
I hate to disagree with you twinpwr, but the longer Labour keep playing their silly little games the better as far as I'm concerned. I'm just being selfish here you understand.
The way I see it the longer they keep this silly little game scenario up then the better the chance the electorate will see them for what they really are.....useless, self centred and pathetic. When people see this then they will surely start turning to the S.N.P. in droves.
The way I see it the longer they keep this silly little game scenario up then the better the chance the electorate will see them for what they really are.....useless, self centred and pathetic. When people see this then they will surely start turning to the S.N.P. in droves.
#
2012-02-18 20:32
This action mirrors the action of their Labour colleagues in Holyrood when John Swinney was setting the budget for 2011. All Labour MSPs wishes were fulfilled in that budget but it was still unacceptable. Could it be that this is now Labour policy for when they are in opposition anywhere - local council, Holyrood or Westminster?
Or, could this be payback because of what happened to their Glasgow Labour colleagues last week when GCC's budget was being settled?
Or, could this be payback because of what happened to their Glasgow Labour colleagues last week when GCC's budget was being settled?
#
2012-02-19 13:31
I couldn't believe this latest bit from Labour when I first read about on the BBC website.
Are they completely stupid? Are they 3-year-olds throwing a tantrum? ("The nasty horrible SNP stole our toys!!!" [stamp foot]) Or do they really have a death-wish?
Now, the astute political thing to do would've been to vote for the amended budget and then go out to the voters, saying that the original SNP budged was BAD but Labour made it BETTER, Labour forced the horrible nasty nats to make the budget better, so it's all thanks to Labour, so vote for us.
Instead, they shoot themselves in the foot. Thank god the Labour leader is Millipede because they certainly need a thousand feet, by the rate they're shooting themselves in the foot!
Are they completely stupid? Are they 3-year-olds throwing a tantrum? ("The nasty horrible SNP stole our toys!!!" [stamp foot]) Or do they really have a death-wish?
Now, the astute political thing to do would've been to vote for the amended budget and then go out to the voters, saying that the original SNP budged was BAD but Labour made it BETTER, Labour forced the horrible nasty nats to make the budget better, so it's all thanks to Labour, so vote for us.
Instead, they shoot themselves in the foot. Thank god the Labour leader is Millipede because they certainly need a thousand feet, by the rate they're shooting themselves in the foot!
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