Moore's "hypocrisy", contradicting Lib Dem policy on votes for young people

Sunday, 19 February 2012 21:53
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By a Newsnet reporter

In a move which directly contradicts his own party's policy, Secretary of State for Scotland Michael Moore has ruled out votes for 16 and 17 year olds in the independence referendum. 

Extending the franchise to 16 and 17 year olds is Lib Dem party policy, and the commitment appeared in the party's most recent manifesto.

On page 88 of the Lib Dem manifesto it says:

"We want people to be empowered, knowing the chance to change things in their neighbourhood or in the country as a whole is in their hands.  Liberal Democrats will give the right to vote from age 16."

In 2009, the Lib Dems supported the Health Board Membership and Elections Act, specifically voting for the extension of the franchise to 16 and 17 year olds (12th March 2009).  

The SNP likewise has a manifesto commitment to extending the franchise to voters aged 16 and 17, and wishes to extend the franchise to allow young adults to have their say on Scotland's future in the referendum on independence.  The SNP move is supported by the National Union of Students and the Scottish Youth Parliament.

However in comments made on the BBC Politics Show on Sunday, Mr Moore apparently overruled the settled policy of his own party, and demanded that the voting age for the referendum remain set at 18.

Mr Moore said:

"So far we have not yet heard a convincing argument that says you should change the basis of the franchise on this one-off referendum, otherwise you could start opening the whole debate up to lots of other people saying they should be part of this or certain people shouldn't be part of it."

Mr Moore went on to say that the franchise for the referendum should be identical to the franchise for the last Scottish Parliamentary election which saw a majority SNP government returned to power, saying:

"I think the fairest basis is to use the franchise that elected the very parliament that gave the First Minister his mandate to have a referendum."

Mr Moore's remarks were immediately denounced as "hypocrisy" by the SNP who criticised Mr Moore for seeking to bar young adults from voting in the referendum on independence for Scotland.

Humza Yousaf, the SNP’s youngest MSP, said:

"It is grossly unfair people aged 16 and 17 are able to play a major part in our society, to pay taxes, join the armed forces, consent to marriage but under UK Government plans will be barred from having a say in the constitutional future of Scotland.

"It is of course sheer hypocrisy that the Lib Dems in Scotland have already backed votes for 16 and 17 year olds as part of elections to health boards.

"Penalising those 16 and 17-year-olds is further evidence of how badly out of touch Mr Moore and the anti-independence camp are with the young people of Scotland."

Comments  

 
# Roll_On_2011 2012-02-20 09:18
Well what can one say about Moore – Priceless…. ‘for everything else theres Barclaycard’.
 
 
# Sleekit 2012-02-20 09:20
If anyone believes a word that comes out of the Lib Dems mounths come the next election they either live in a cave, cut off from communication; Are clinically insane; Or are a Masochist!

The sooner we are free of these flip-flopping weasels the better!
 
 
# clootie 2012-02-20 09:30
I object to the way they describe the referendum as a "one of event" in a manner to diminish the importance of the event. As one poster put it last week the younger people will live with the result of this vote for their entire future - How can we deny them the vote?
 
 
# Holebender 2012-02-20 11:02
It'll be a one-off because we will win our independence and the subject will never come up again. We'll have other referendums on other matters, but the independence referendum will be a one-off.
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-02-20 11:28
He's using 'one-off' as his get-out clause: he'd obviously like to extend the vote to 16 and 17 year olds, but he wants to do it for all votes, therefore it would be 'wrong' to do it for one vote. I believe the technical phrase for this in political circles is 'having your cake and eating it'.
 
 
# UpSpake 2012-02-20 10:19
Who said this was a one off referndum. Has Mr. Salmond not said that a Yes vote for independence will be followed by another referendum on EU membership ?.
The principal of referenda is not contrary to democracy but frequently fundamental to it. If the SNP wish to give the vote to 16 and 17 y.o's that is perfectly within their power to do so.
Butt out Governor General !.
 
 
# Mac 2012-02-20 10:47
The Lib Dems have shown themselves time and time again to be the party of hypocrisy. From tuition fees to the voting age. From NHS reforms to welfare reforms. From financial regulation to tax avoidance. From FOIA to ministerial wrong doing. You simply cannot trust the Lib Dems.
 
 
# Jimbo 2012-02-20 11:07
Does Moore have the power to rule out votes for 16 and 17 year olds in the independence referendum?

Since 16 and 17 year olds are not allowed to vote, should they not be exempt from paying taxes until they are 18?

It is wrong for Westminster to tax them, but deny them a say in how those taxes are spent.
 
 
# jim288 2012-02-20 11:33
Quoting Jimbo:
Does Moore have the power to rule out votes for 16 and 17 year olds in the independence referendum?

Since 16 and 17 year olds are not allowed to vote, should they not be exempt from paying taxes until they are 18?
It is wrong for Westminster to tax them, but deny them a say in how those taxes are spent.



You can pay tax from birth. All you need is taxable income.
 
 
# jafurn 2012-02-20 11:40
excellent point ....how does that old saying go
'no taxation without representation'

The slogan was used by the American revolutionaries and meant they they weren't willing to pay taxes imposed by the British House of Commons - as they were not represented there.

Look what happened when they ignored that in the past.
 
 
# proudscot 2012-02-20 14:28
Quoting Jimbo:
Does Moore have the power to rule out votes for 16 and 17 year olds in the independence referendum?

Since 16 and 17 year olds are not allowed to vote, should they not be exempt from paying taxes until they are 18?

It is wrong for Westminster to tax them, but deny them a say in how those taxes are spent.


What's wrong with that, Westminster operated the same system with the then American colonies and no great harm came of that ... oh, wait ...
 
 
# Vincent McDee 2012-02-20 11:40
Mr Moron the moore has been working for a tory long enough to defend their right wing policies, even if viscerally disagreeing with them.

Fortunately, the Scottish People are seeing through the com-dem-neds antics.

What do they think the relatives of all those teenagers, are going to vote in the Independence Referendum?

They are foolking no one but themselves.
 
 
# jasp303 2012-02-20 11:46
OT: Here's what they were up to in Basque Country yesterday - "Free Euskotland".

www.youtube.com/.../
 
 
# Edna Caine 2012-02-20 12:30
Quoting jasp303:
OT: Here's what they were up to in Basque Country yesterday - "Free Euskotland".

www.youtube.com/.../


Superb. A bit kitsch, maybe, but Hey! it's a carnival.

Liked the crack about both nations having "presidentes anfibios" (amphibian presidents). Alex Salmond and Patxi Lo-Pez (fish)
 
 
# Marga B 2012-02-20 20:55
Fantastic, Edna!
 
 
# the wallace 2012-02-20 11:48
I hope A S doesent turn his back on the youngsters getting their vote,what kind of message would that be, to them who are our future.
 
 
# Aplinal 2012-02-20 13:06
I would agree, but am not sure just how much real authority the Scottish Government would have. I believe that Alex will pursue this as far as he can, but if the Westminster government resist, then I do not think he/SNP are able to do anything about this.

It would, of course, be a message to 16/17 year olds about how much Westminster cares about Scotland, and all those who are NOW 16/17 will, of course, be eligible in 2014.
 
 
# J Wil 2012-02-20 12:57
Here is an opportunity for the LibDems to support their long held, cherished, policy of lowering the voting age, but now it seems it must only be implemented if it is also applied to every other election/refendum, which conveniently hits it into the long grass for a number of years. A bit of a body swerve if ever there was one because they see some disadvantages in having it for the independence referendum.

Contrast that position with the one they took on the AV referendum where they saw this extremely feeble attempt at a proportional representation voting system as a first step towards getting something better in the future and they desperately grabbed at the opportunity. At the time their position was, 'it was better than nothing'.

Their whole approach takes the credibility of the LibDems down by another notch or ten.
 
 
# X_Sticks 2012-02-20 14:11
Yes J Wil, but is the question now not "DID THE LIBDEMS EVER BELIEVE ANYTHING THEY EVER SAID?" It would seem that they have backtracked on everything they USED to offer the voters. Tuition Fees, lower voting age, "home rule", devolution. All these things are now expendable it seems.
 
 
# Aplinal 2012-02-20 13:10
"Mr Moore went on to say that the franchise for the referendum should be identical to the franchise for the last Scottish Parliamentary election which saw a majority SNP government returned to power,"

BUT, Mr Moore, the election in 2014 will NOT have the same electorate as that which elected the SNP to Government in 2011. For one thing, some voters will have died, some moved on, some de-registered, and today's 16/17 year olds will be eligible to vote.

So, basically, you are talking b*ll*x. The franchise is about the future of Scotland, and it is MORE appropriate that 16/17 year olds vote, than it is for 80/90 year olds to do so. It is for the rest of their, hopefully, long lives. (With no disrespect to the 'long-lived!)
 
 
# jafurn 2012-02-20 13:21
Agreed and well put and speaking as one moderately long lived I take no disrespect at all
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-02-20 14:52
Quoting Aplinal:
BUT, Mr Moore, the election in 2014 will NOT have the same electorate as that which elected the SNP to Government in 2011.


Electorate is not the same as franchise. The same franchise will (probably) apply, but a different electorate will be enfranchised.
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-20 13:33
Nice to see that the Lib/Dems have not forgotten their past and are now returning to their roots......... Sitting on the fence.

I think all future Lib/Dem election material should consist of one piece of paper with "We'll promise you the earth" printed on one side and "We'll deliver you nothing!" on the other.

Is this idea of promising 16/17 y.o the vote and now refusing to back the S.N.P. on the very same issue taken from the same rule book used by Labour when they offer Budget amendments and them refuse to back them?
 
 
# rhymer 2012-02-20 14:34
Oh yes we want it, we really want it but not now, especially not now!
-libdem policy on votes for 16/17 year olds.
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-20 14:45
Looks like there will be a "Super Snooper" bill in the Queen's speech in May. (Yes I said Super Snooper NOT Super Trooper :D)

rt.com/.../...

Yet another fine example of coalition hypocrisy in action.

Let's hope we get Independence before this nauseating bill gets to see the light of day.

Just found this little ditty in the Sun.

thesun.co.uk/.../...

Here we have yet another, YAWN, example of Westminster hypocrisy.

Nice to know that "we're all in it together". NOT!
 
 
# J Wil 2012-02-20 14:58
Not sure I understand completely the LibDems opposition to reducing the voting age. If John Curtice is to be believed (and that may be slightly dubious) he has said that reducing the voting age would not make much difference to the outcome of the referendum. I understand also that Curtice was 'one of them' (if there is any doubt about what I mean, it is that he was/is a Liberal supporter).
 
 
# Dundonian West 2012-02-20 15:00
"I think the fairest basis is to use the franchise that elected the very parliament that gave the First Minister his mandate to have a referendum."Michael Moore.

WHY? I ask you again,WHY?

We're talking of at least a 3 year+ gap. Outdated franchise.

You say,"I think". Please tell me why you think this oddity.
 
 
# scottish_skier 2012-02-20 15:15
The Lib Dems used to be the 'third party' of UK politics. They are now an irrelevance in both Scotland, and the rest of the UK, polling ~6 and 10% respectively. To make your party more unpopular that the Tories in Scotland is an incredible achievement; we can give them that at least.
 
 
# Islegard 2012-02-20 15:23
So the Lib Dems have been found out! For years they were pretending to be a political party hoping never to get elected. Everytime they get a wiff of power and the possibility of implementing their policies. They drop them faster than a tories trousers in an Eton dorm.
 
 
# hiorta 2012-02-20 17:11
Lib. Dem and Labour seem quite happy to 'give' a vote to young folk, but only so long as they can be sure it is used how they decide, not the voter.

To describe such cheap politics as being those of a two-faced weasel is doing two faced weasels a grave injustice, although describing Lib Dem politicians admirably.
 
 
# raisethegame 2012-02-20 17:20
O/T
From the Huffington Post
'Alex Salmond: Smugness Unbecomes Him'

huffingtonpost.co.uk/.../...

I suspect the author is feeling a tad bitter :)
 
 
# thomsor 2012-02-20 17:27
The tories have consumed the Liberals and will spit them out when the next uk election comes round. Untrustworthy turncoats who will never never climb to the top of the greasy pole they crave so much.
 
 
# loamfeet 2012-02-20 17:57
Quote:
Mr Moore said: "So far we have not yet heard a convincing argument that says you should change the basis of the franchise on this one-off referendum"


Well change it permanently for local and national elections in Scotland, then. That is what Scottish people voted for and that is what Moore presumably is in favour of.

Get it done.

The real question is: why should the referendum on independence be excluded from any change in the franchise in Scotland.
 
 
# Electric Hermit 2012-02-20 18:00
One might reasonably have expected that the BBC's Scottish Political Editor might have something to say about this. But Brian Taylor's blog was last updated on 9 February. I may have imagined it, but I'm pretty sure there have been at least one or two notable political events in Scotland over the last eleven days.
 
 
# Hing em high 2012-02-20 18:24
I have said it before and I will say it again and keep repeating myself.

"If you are old enough to be fleeced by Londons grasping treasury then you are old enough to vote!"
 
 
# parsonrussell 2012-02-20 18:51
Can anyone take the Lib Dems seriously anymore?

They sold out when they married Labour in the Scottish parly, and now they have sold out even more with their marriage to the Tories in Westminster.

They have shown themselves, both in Hollyrood and Westminster, to be merely power hungry hypocrites who have no qualms about changing all they claim to be to grasp at the opportunity to be in some sort of government.

Shame on them, and shame on anyone that votes for them again.
 
 
# rhymer 2012-02-20 19:20
Hermit -
Beeb's Brian seems only to be working on a part time basis AND he only surfaces when a surreal version or totally bias version of Scottish politics is printed under his bye line.
I often wonder, regardless of his mindless bias, whether he thought that shutting of any response to his blog was a positive move.
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-20 20:36
I thought I had posted this link before but it appears to have got lost in the ether, so here goes again.

[Sometimes we can't publish links, for legal reasons - NNS Mod Team]

Quote:
Speaking to Scottish Times Chris Glendinning, a member of SYP for Edinburgh Central said: “As someone who has previously stated his support for lowering the voting age, Michael Moore must not deprive sixteen and seventeen year-olds the vote in the independence referendum simply because there is a chance that they will not vote for his preferred outcome. Such a move is (in my opinion) undemocratic; it goes against the very principles of liberalism and stinks to high-heavens of rank hypocrisy"


Nice to see others "out in cyberspace" see the Lib/Dems as undemocratic and hypocritical. I wonder if this message is getting through to the Lib/Dem hierarchy yet. On second thoughts probably not!
 

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